2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 5, 2013 0:01:21 GMT -5
These things are never as simple as one thinks they are going to be but this most recent project went together surprisingly well. I have been mentally building this for a couple of months and kept staring at the parts I had laying around that constituted 90% of what I needed.
About a week ago I started taking more careful measurements and decided to get started. The concept was to build a carbine for myself for airsoft events and simple plinking. The carbine as you know was designed to replace the pistol and was to be issued to officers, crewmen for crew served weapons, rear eschelon types and drivers. At most airsoft events I end up monitoring radios, driving vehicles and in general support so I seldom fire very many rounds. All too often I forget to charge the batteries for my own weapons or end up loaning them out to support others. I usually carry a 45 but here again I often fail to have them gassed up. Inevitably at each event I end up wishing I had something to fend off a force or individual who has pierced the outer lines or I get isolated with a small group when coming up to view the action. For me a decent shooting carbine even if it was a springer would suit my purposes.
With that in mind and recognizing that no AEG gear box was small enough for the tiny confines of a carbine stock I looked elsewhere for a solution. In my armory of assorted guns I had a couple cheap springer shotguns which actually shoot pretty hard. With 20 grams they were shooting just over 300 fps. 290 to 310. NOT super competitive these days but adequate to register a hit. With the pump action one can get quite a few rounds rapidly down range without lifting the muzzle off target. How to take one of those and build it into a carbine stock?
My plan was to cock the carbine using the bolt but also to attach a pull strap along the base of the stock that would cycle down an open slit that would be barely visible beneath the rifle and could allow a pump action for speed.
The shotgun was fairly easily disassembled and cut down to fit as closely into the carbine stock as possible. It fit nearly like it was made for it. The carbine required some dremel work but no where near what I had anticipated. The outer pump was removed and in place of the inner spring that helped the pumping action I used rubber bands to help keep the action forward and these were attached to the cocking slide and the inside of the carbine stock. The cocking slide took a slight "z" shape and I flipped it over so the slide channel was higher not lower. I pop rivetted it and JB welded it into the carbine charging handle I fabricated out of a repurposed M14 charging handle and along with the lower strap it provides another means to cock the rifle.
I am awaiting a carbine stock band and both front and rear sights and I will need to do a little cosmetic work on the reciever. For the bolt I have a take off M14 bolt which I will cut down to size but should provide convincing appearance. I started in on the physical work today and expect to be done this weekend.
I will post pictures in the form of a tutorial for others wishing to take this on and once completely done will post pictures of the final result. Project cost is perhaps $180.00? Would I be interested in building some of these for other folks? Not even remotely interested so please dont ask. The primary costs here are for the actual carbine parts.
stock, heat shield, butt plate, sling and oiler, sights front and rear, stock band butt plate and a magazine shell. A brass barrel section some resin paste several dremel blades and sanding wheels and a DE base springer shotgun is all thats needed.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 7, 2013 15:08:21 GMT -5
So other than the parts Im waiting on the project is done. It all fit together nicely although the carbine stock is quite thin along the base. Very little space had to be removed for the shotguns trigger housing which was exactly the same width. The mag housing had be enlarged a tiny bit as well. I fit a brass outer barrel over the actual shotgun barrel and it protrudes well beyond the shotguns inner barrel in order to provide the right look. The M14 charging handle required a little modification to look correct but it fit inside the stock and heat shield like they were made for each other. The pop rivet and JB weld connection seems to be strong enough to endure. for now I decided against the lower strap channel for cocking but that remains a possible modification for later. The shotgun inner reciever group protrudes 1/4 of an inch further back in the stock than a carbine reciever and that required some dremel work. Visually it is quite descreit. The height of the shotgun receiver is up as well and runs even with the upper handguard where an actual carbine is a bit lower. I don't find this overly distracting but many people will.
This particular shotgun features a flush mounted internal clip. (the same ones I use for my Garand conversions). The intent is to attach the appropriate length of carbine magazine to the base of these clips for the right visual look. Unfortunately this means they wont fit in the appropriate pouches.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 9, 2013 14:37:38 GMT -5
It will be a while before I get in the needed parts to complete the final visual details. Sights, magazines etc. I did get in the sling components and a stock two pocket pouch. Once those are installed and the final cosmetic work is done I will take final pictures. In the meantime if anyone would like to view the build phases thus far just PM me with your direct email and i shoot you off a set of five pictures that help clarify the process. It is an exercise in dremel control, thats for sure as the carbine stock gives you very little space to work with.
Its fun to shoot and feels nice in the hands. It will suit my purposes just fine. ultimately if a small enough and appropriate gear box comes along Ill convert it again into an AEG.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 16, 2013 1:19:40 GMT -5
Still no sights, or the actual magazine so screw it, ill use them on another project. Im going to fabricate something in the way of sites and a pseudo magazine. That way I can get this done and keep the cost on this specific build as low as possible. (My goal now is to keep my cost below $100.00 for everything and the sights were $65.99 by themselves!) I should be able to install somethings that will create an adequate look. I'll get the whole gun all painted and detailed, get some pictures taken, downloaded and posted. The look while not perfect will be decent and until i think i can afford the marushin co2 along with three or four spare magazines this will have to be my carbine.
A carbine makes the Garand look huge and the BAR gigantic!
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HornetWSO
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Post by HornetWSO on Jan 16, 2013 22:06:08 GMT -5
Really very excited to see some photos!
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Jan 17, 2013 19:28:11 GMT -5
the BAR by itself looks gigantic
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 17, 2013 19:49:40 GMT -5
Still awaiting the stain and stock finish so I will reassemble, get some final pictures and share the results (such as they are) for this project. I cut some corners when I decided to order a Marushin CO2 so i managed to keep my cost on this project well below $100.00. It will be perfect at our events for a staff player, mortarman or other crew served weapons guy.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 19, 2013 17:59:11 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 14, 2013 23:56:09 GMT -5
The time off has left me seeking new outlets for creativity. With the affordable BAR out and available and the Grease gun produced by two manufacturers, the Thompson essentially built by everyone and the M1 Garand AEGs imminent the only real hole is an inexpensive M1 carbine. The gas offering is still too expensive for my blood and i havent heard enough about its consistency and reliability. Here are some pictures of it all done up. I replaced the shotgun guts (which broke after about 500 rounds) with the components from a springer M14. It shoots about 320 w .20 grams but you have to cock it each time. Definitely a rear eschelon or crew weapon. I have a folding stock carbine and assorted bits coming along with a JG scorpian. We'll see if i can come up with something more skirmishable
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Post by Abbot on Mar 15, 2013 8:57:28 GMT -5
Looks bloody awesome!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 15, 2013 11:19:28 GMT -5
In reality it's what my son (who is my worst critic ) would say..."It's good from afar, but far from good.". The carbine is just so little that there isn't any space to work with.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 16, 2013 16:28:17 GMT -5
I have to say that looks pretty darn good.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 16, 2013 19:45:24 GMT -5
Like all of these things it tends to look fine until you hold it right up against a real one. It is a facimille. You know at a glance what it is. It feels right. I'm happy. The seriously anal would rip it apart in a heartbeat. I initially kept the cost under $100.00 which was my goal. It has since drifted up to under $150.00 so for that I am delighted.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 17, 2013 9:48:34 GMT -5
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Post by wilhelmmoa on Mar 17, 2013 9:55:24 GMT -5
Nice find, the FPS looks decent but if anybody gets the springer I'd probably put a new spring in it to make it more powerful.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 17, 2013 10:58:34 GMT -5
Wow SGT TOM. great find! its an M2 of course but still...at that price! I'm sure the FPS rating is with 12 gram so i'm confident the performance is quite marginal. My experience with cheap springers is upgrading them with a more powerful spring is a bad idea. They'll break within a hundred or so shots.
Like my little project gun, This would be fine for a rear eschelon type or unit leader who should be fighting their team not shooting anyway.
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Post by volkssturm on Mar 17, 2013 14:38:20 GMT -5
Dang it! Here I said I wasn't going to buy any more airsoft guns! Just had to order one of those. If nothing else, it'll make a good prop gun or donor gun for a future project that ends up buried on the workbench. ;D Now that I've ordered it, I find it listed elsewhere for less money, www.airrattle.com/UKARMS-M1-Spring-Airsoft-Rifle-p/iu-m1w.htmbut that site has it backordered. More interesting is that they claim 360 fps with .20 bb's. I guess we'll see.
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Post by jettalewis on Mar 17, 2013 16:47:51 GMT -5
Well volkssturm I find myself in the same boat you sank in. I too could not pass this up :/
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 17, 2013 17:48:41 GMT -5
I have had springers that shot pretty hard and perhaps this one will shoot harder than we might expect. If it is shooting 320+ with .20 gram it would be ample if only as a loaner gun as mentioned. I wonder if the magazine is fixed or detachable and if detachabe if spares are available. If not I would love to see how it loads. Someone be sure to do a full report.
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Post by warbirdguy1 on Mar 17, 2013 19:10:40 GMT -5
Just contacted airrattle on the restock ETA and contaced Evike to see if they may carry it.
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Post by warbirdguy1 on Mar 18, 2013 15:28:50 GMT -5
Airrattle does not have an ETA. Their response was basically that.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 18, 2013 20:26:40 GMT -5
IS THAT FOR REAL?!
We need to find somewhere that has them in stock!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 18, 2013 21:08:19 GMT -5
They were in stock when sgt tom pointed it out. I know at least three or four of us on here jumped on them right away. I am curious to see how they do. If they work well i will try to mount one into an actual stock and figure out if i can do something with the sights, magazine and bayonet lug.
The cock it everytime doesn't disturb me all that much if they are powerful enough.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 18, 2013 21:35:08 GMT -5
Yea a friend pointed it out to me. Funny it came up unnoticed. The one website claims 360 with 20 grams. Like you said it probably shoots a little lower but even 320 isn't bad. Its a carbine for $65 so I guess we can't complain.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 19, 2013 19:38:14 GMT -5
I never believe FPS claims until I test them myself. With springers of course there is always a trade off between cocking effort and FPS so a nice balance is what you hope for. To be viable it needs to shoot .20 grams at least 290 FPS in my opinion and over 300 (1 jouelle) is where you really want to be. At this price point there are going to be compromises somewhere unfortunately. I have one ordered and of course am always anxious to see what's, what. I'll provide a full report once i get it. I'm figuring at the very least it will provide guts for a home built using an actual stock. It doesn't need to be sniper springer territory to work for me.
I am only hoping for decent and expect something far less than that but who knows? The carbine was issued in numbers equal to (in fact greater than) the Garand so its a hole that really needs filling.
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Post by warbirdguy1 on Mar 19, 2013 19:43:05 GMT -5
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Post by jettalewis on Mar 21, 2013 19:51:02 GMT -5
I'm waiting for mine to show up. I have been looking for a candidate to use to build a paratrooper carbine. Hopefully, this will be the one.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 21, 2013 20:47:50 GMT -5
Great minds think alike...that is my plan for it as well. I checked with UKArms (the distributor)looking into a case lot purchase but alas they are sold out. That bodes well for them ordering more. No word on seperate available magazines. In the pictures the stock looks well...weird but that really doesn't matter if we put them into an actual stock (assuming such a thing is practical). Brownien plans to mount a scorpian aep in these stocks which means he'll have internal guts from the springers. In reality we are all probably getting our hopes too high but what the heck...it keeps us young. No word on shipping so who knows when it will hit.
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Post by warbirdguy1 on Mar 22, 2013 14:50:17 GMT -5
HEADS UP Airsoft Tula/Going Loud does NOT have them in stock, they just called me saying that they forgot to mark it "out of stock" unfortunately....so no review from me......well Citadel M1 Carbine here i come lol
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 22, 2013 15:00:52 GMT -5
You could buy it and make custom 15rd magazines.
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