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Post by aj czarkowski on Sept 14, 2013 19:56:43 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 15, 2013 22:25:42 GMT -5
Very cool. I love all the new offerings and unlike all the frustrations of several years ago where prospective "vapor ware" were announced or rumored and never actually got released these things seem more often then not to come to fruition.
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Post by gunner79 on Sept 16, 2013 0:33:05 GMT -5
Spot on 2B. I also am one of those airsoft zealots who will be standing in line to acquire this particular gun!
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Post by volkssturm on Sept 16, 2013 12:23:45 GMT -5
Looks good. Besides Italian impressions it would be good for Mediterranean/North Africa games for partisans/resistance, specialist troops like the SAS or LRDG, or my personal favorite, Popski's Army, or even German units. Unlike most Italian weapons, the Beretta was well regarded by both sides and widely used.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Sept 16, 2013 21:44:36 GMT -5
I agree, definitely is one of my favorites. And if this comes out at a decent price, I will have to pick one up
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Post by sgtkillroy1944 on Sept 18, 2013 15:57:04 GMT -5
YESSSSS!!!!!!! And to think i was just about to do a custom! Italian impression here i come!!!!
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Post by sgtkillroy1944 on Sept 18, 2013 15:59:14 GMT -5
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Post by slick63 on Mar 3, 2014 12:42:32 GMT -5
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shiftysgarand
Corporal
BangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangPING
Posts: 1,165
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 3, 2014 15:26:13 GMT -5
It is nice seeing the low power and low mag cap, makes it nice and realistic.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 3, 2014 22:29:46 GMT -5
Ouch! Looks like a nicely performing airsoft gun but unfortunately that's way too far out of my budget
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 3, 2014 22:57:13 GMT -5
Gorgeous but a bit too obscure of an offering to entice me. Why not an AEG carbine, G 43. FJ42 or even an Ivar Johnson, something at least a bit more common and appropriate for a reasonable impression. For any Italian weapon you have to drop it a few times for it to be authentic.
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Post by LÏŸÏŸAH1944 on Mar 4, 2014 11:02:48 GMT -5
yeah, I drop my guns enough, no need to do Italian for me
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Jerry-ADK
Private 1st Class
Unteroffizier, Heeresgruppe Nord-Ost
Posts: 418
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Mar 8, 2014 22:24:34 GMT -5
Isn't that what they say about French guns, "dropped once never fired"?
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 8, 2014 22:45:10 GMT -5
How come it should be dropped a few times? Isn't that what they say about French guns, "dropped once never fired"? lol
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Post by gunner79 on Mar 9, 2014 2:22:08 GMT -5
The Italian army, and by extension it's soldiers were generally held in low regard by most other fighting forces during (and before) WWII. The saying went that the average Italian soldier was given to 'throwing their arms up to surrender at the sound of the first shot fired (and dropping their weapon without a shot being fired).
Reality was somwwhat different - the average Italian soldier was simply poorly led, by an inept officer corp - which itself was rife with political appointees who had no business running campaigns or leading into battle. The Italian Army of 1940 was a hollow shell of the army that fought the Austro-Hungarian/Ottoman Empire during WWI -and whose troopers were generally very well respected by their opponents in the field!
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Post by gunner79 on Mar 9, 2014 2:29:00 GMT -5
Hopefully, the price will drop - also saw that BBD is selling the ACM/Arrow ZB26 (not to be confused with the ROCK/Inokatsu ZB26) for $835 bucks!! I own both ZB models - and I paid $410 for the Arrow version!
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Post by insterburger on Mar 9, 2014 7:42:15 GMT -5
The Italian army, and by extension it's soldiers were generally held in low regard by most other fighting forces during (and before) WWII. The saying went that the average Italian soldier was given to 'throwing their arms up to surrender at the sound of the first shot fired (and dropping their weapon without a shot being fired). Reality was somwwhat different - the average Italian soldier was simply poorly led, by an inept officer corp - which itself was rife with political appointees who had no business running campaigns or leading into battle. The Italian Army of 1940 was a hollow shell of the army that fought the Austro-Hungarian/Ottoman Empire during WWI -and whose troopers were generally very well respected by their opponents in the field! Well put. The problems with both the Italians and the French were poor leadership and poor doctrine (which tend to go hand in hand). When under German officers, Italian soldiers were known to fight bravely and well. Same deal with the French. During the battle of France they were committed in the worst possible way by an inept leadership with a horrendous chain of command, and the results were... a Paris vacation for Adolf. On the other hand, look what the Free French forces did at Bir Hakeim-- some of the same guys who had been part of the debacle in France fought heroically to crucially slow Rommel's advance. The difference wasn't the men, it was how they were led.
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stuka
Sergeant
The one and only
Posts: 1,205
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Post by stuka on Mar 10, 2014 8:04:58 GMT -5
Hopefully, the price will drop - also saw that BBD is selling the ACM/Arrow ZB26 (not to be confused with the ROCK/Inokatsu ZB26) for $835 bucks!! I own both ZB models - and I paid $410 for the Arrow version! can you link me to the agm/arrow one?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 10, 2014 19:09:05 GMT -5
Italian tanks were equipped with back up mirrors. The only tanks so equipped. This was a common joke within the German Army. As stated earlier the challenges with the Italian Army was lack of leadership and generally poor armament. Patton once crudey stated that he'd rather have a crack German Division in front of him then a TOP NOTCH French Division covering a flank (This from a man who seldom worried about his flanks!). There were in fact some excellent French Armored Units once equipped with US vehicles and equipment. It has been argued that the French tanks AT THE OUTBREAK OF WAR were actuallu superior to the tanks used by the Germans (most of which were Mk1s, Czech t38s IIs and Mk IIIs with few Mk IVs. Panthers, tigers and high velocity guns still not mounted on their VIs.
Air power, Tactics and strategy were the reasons they did so well, early in the war.
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Post by volkssturm on Mar 10, 2014 19:43:36 GMT -5
The French were capable of putting up a good fight. For example, the Battle of Stonne, 1940. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StonneThe town changed hands 17 times. Unfortunately, the French ran out of tanks before the Germans did and the Germans were heading for the Channel. The real secret to German success was they had figured out that you needed to concentrate your armor, combine it with control of the air over the battle and effective close air support, and have the leaders up front with good, rapid communications. The French had only just formed their first armored divisions, tended to disperse their armor, and their command and control was basically copied from WWI trench warfare, with telephone lines to a chateau somewhere far in the rear.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 10, 2014 20:00:01 GMT -5
Interesting how badly an obsolete armory can affect relatively good troops in that way, it seems in WWI they actually did pretty good... I spent about 4 hours researching both the Italian and early war French army after reading the last few posts (no homework or practice today haha). Both were poorly equipped, especially the Italians. Being part Italian I found it interesting how inferior a lot of their weapons actually were. The Carcano rifle which I remembered from studying the President Kennedy assassination, is actually regarded as one of the worst main battle rifles in history. Apparently in 1938, a new Carcano rifle was needed to replace the previous model which was outdated. Ironically, this new rifle became hated by both nations that used it (Finland was sent a large quantity). It was called the M38, and instead of the previous 6.5mm bullet, this new rifle fired 7.35mm, and was a carbine. Although the higher powered bullet was a plus, the actual rifle had fixed sights for 300 meters and was very inaccurate, also it did not accept any scopes, and the new 7.35mm ammo was in extremely short supply because Italy was unable to stockpile enough of it before the war. So after only being manufactured for two years, 1938 and 1939, in 1940 the same basic design was modified back to fire 6.5mm ammunition. The new rifle, the M91/40 carbine, was only manufactured for one year in 1940, and this was the infamous rifle Lee Harvey Oswald used to assassinate President Kennedy. In 1941, a new full length rifle was once again being made in 6.5mm, and this rifle was used for the rest of the war. After looking at some other weapons in their armory, it seems the Baretta m38 was actually their best weapon
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Post by gunner79 on Mar 11, 2014 14:55:24 GMT -5
Hopefully, the price will drop - also saw that BBD is selling the ACM/Arrow ZB26 (not to be confused with the ROCK/Inokatsu ZB26) for $835 bucks!! I own both ZB models - and I paid $410 for the Arrow version! can you link me to the agm/arrow one? Sent you a PM. Gunner79
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Post by gunner79 on Mar 11, 2014 14:56:03 GMT -5
Hopefully, the price will drop - also saw that BBD is selling the ACM/Arrow ZB26 (not to be confused with the ROCK/Inokatsu ZB26) for $835 bucks!! I own both ZB models - and I paid $410 for the Arrow version! can you link me to the agm/arrow one? Sent you a PM. Gunner79
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 11, 2014 22:07:08 GMT -5
The Blitzkried concept "Lightening War" was not entirely German in fact there were concept studies published by English and American military theoryist who proposed how best to apply and utilize the modern weaponry becoming available well before 1939. Guderian and other German Generals took note of such ideas, combined them with their own and IMPLEMENTED them which is far more critical then simply thinking them up.
Air Power covered flanks and isolated sections of battlefields which allowed them to concentrate their armored forces. Air powere essentially became mobile artillery and because Armored, high speed deep penetrations was a new concept, defense in depth was not being practiced. The shock of mass, firepower and mobility was something the Polish, French and British Armys just weren't prepared for.
Interestingly the lighter German tanks early in the war (which had little or no tactical advantage like German tanks did late in the war) were far better suited for this high speed offensive concept of penetration and pursuit. A fact that became abundantly obvious several years later in the Ardennes offensive. german vehicles unable to cross bridges or traverse narrow trails which dramatically delayed their mobility at critical phases and forced them to build fewer tanks.
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