2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 1, 2013 20:41:36 GMT -5
Every year I put on a community Father Son game the weekend after Thanksgiving and usually it is treated as a non themed airsoft skirmish where I rent out uniforms, weapons and eye pro and set up the scenarios and game flow. Since most of my loaner gear is WW2 often it takes on that look for the most part. This year I made it a completely WW 2 Themed event and with the acquisition and conversion of eight of the CYMA M2 carbines to WW2 era M1s I was able to pull it off. When I combined my small armory of 2nd Bat Garands, (Four) a few Thompsons I have, my 2 30 Cals, my 2 BARS (one homemade and one Echo 1) and a Greaser and Springfiield (VSR conversion). I had sufficient period correct weapons.
We had a great turnout and while the $65.00 event fee doesn't begin to pay for all the gear and event costs the 23 paid participants put a little dent in it. We had seven dads and a few other adult neighbors participate along with mostly young teen boys, one girl and two 11 or 12 year olds. I let dads come free as I really wanted their presence and support. Truthfully I think the dads had the most fun. The only full auto weapons were the Machine guns, the homemade BAR, the two thompsons and the Grease gun. The Garands were all semi auto and the Springfield and eight carbine all had to be cocked each time. We traded around opportunities for folks to try assorted weapons. Although several players stuck with the carbines as they liked them. I had my ICS Garand there along with my Echo 1 BAR, my Marushin carbine but didn't use them other then on display.
Several of my neighbors are Army vets and I had a couple friends help out as cadre as well. I handed out uniforms for the helpers and cadre the week before and they arrived early and in costume which was great. The weather was clear and while a little cold (for Seattle) at 35 to 48 degrees it was a beautiful day with no rain and just a light drizzle toward the end of the day. People were instructed to arrive at 8:00 AM and most were there on time. The battle was held in a large common area here in the neighborhood which has some neat woods and a decent trail network. We had a nice encampment with tents set up in a open meadow that is actually a large retention pond. Signs were posted at each of the three access points so folks walking their dogs wouldn't freak out and all the action was well away from any houses. This is the 12th year for the event so most of the community knows about it.
Since we had to issue gear and get folks dressed for the part, it was 10:30 before we got things kicked off with a safety briefing and 11:00 before we actually started the first mission. Remember about a third of the participants had never fired an airsoft gun before. One of my Army buddies got them trained on the guns at a little range we had set up and another provided a walk through training for basic squad tactics. (Tactical formations and fire and manuever) The little carbines are a Godsend in that first off they are inexpensive and not something I was especially worried about but in addition it was super easy to get people set up with them and comfortable in their use. No batteries to explain very simple loading, no gas etc. The Machine guns were the most involved and while the kids all wanted to be machine gunners most lost their enthusiasm for them by the end of the day. For a couple of the missions one of the machine guns (the M1917 on a tripod ) was the mission objective where it had to be over run, captured and returned to the line of departure.
Since I didn't have sufficient uniforms and weapons for a reasonable German force Everyone was in US uniforms. About a third in M43s and overcoats, a third in M41s and a 3rd in airborne M42s. Each of these destinctive uniforms became a unit and with most missions it was two elements vs one with the larger element being on offense. This worked well as it reduced stalemates. Everyone had medic cards which were randomly placed in paper envelopes and issued out. When hit a player had to fall dead, lat still for three minutes and then tear open a card to determine their status. They ranged from (Grazzing wound, back in action, flesh wound call a medic to KIA return to the aid station and re-enter as a replacement). Most of the cards were grazzing wounds incidently) If a medic was called any buddy who could get to the player, tore open their next card and acted accordingly. If their next card was KIA the buddy had to escort them back to the aid station
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2013 2:11:17 GMT -5
In the past I have used somewhat more elaborate medic rules with dedicated medics. Bandages and even sulfa powder, IVs etc. I had intended to do so last weekend but didn't find time to prepare the needed props. The other elements I have used was an ambulatory wound required one team mate "helping" the wounded buddy back to the aid station and a KIA requiring two team mates evacuating the casualty. To escort the casualty the team mate had the have an arm around him.
Each squad had a leader and two section corporals. I left it to the squads to decide who those would be and was thrilled that it wasn't exclusively the dads. Each squad had a Machine gunner and assistant machine gunner and an RTO. I have two BC1000 and a handy talky ( BC611) I need to somehow get another BC1000s and eventually would like to get some more of the handy talkies. A brief class was given on the radios and crew drills were done with the machine guns between missions.
The first mission was an escape and evasion mission. The set up was that the enemy had broken through during the night and had surrounded the company. Two of the teams were ordered to break into 3 or 4 man teams and work their way to an assembly area about 500 yards away. The orders were to avoid contact and if hit they had to return to the starting point and remain until another group of three or four team mates could be assembled. The third squad was ordered to actively patrol the area the other two teams had to infiltrate. For this mission the third patrol blocking force when hit remained stationary, prone and silent for 3 minutes and then were back in action.
There were a couple of obvious choke points and the defenders set up fixed defensive positions there. The rest of their squad roamed as hunter killer teams. The players who got the spirit of their assignments had brief fire fights and then withdrew and found new routes. Some of the teams simply allowed themselves to get caught up in the engagements and eventually got wiped out. The defending team was told to be very aggressive with opposition that fought back and they did a great job. With their liberal regen rules they in effect outnumbered the two squads they faced.
Once the initial mission time frame ended we did the same mission again but in the reverse direction and a different squad acting as the defender. the second go around went more as intended and the offensive players did a better job of infiltrating and evading.
The next mission we rotated three times with one squad equipped with the tripod mounted M1917 defending a small ridge with the other two squads tasked to capture and recover the machine gun position. The defenders could patrol to the front of the defensive line or set up ambushes enroute. There were however several possible approaches so this was risky.
For each of these missions the defenders had time to prepare and plan as did the attackers. Though the missions were each identical each action phase was completely unique so frankly it was one we could have run over and over. We ended up only running the five missions but with the training, briefings and planning and prep time it was a good solid day of airsoft. We finished up at around five PM as it was starting to get dark and frankly everyone was pretty worn out. The radios to each element was critical for controlling start times and mission endings. We had an air horn as well for mission endings.
My loaner guns held up reasonably well although I fabricated early war peep sights for the carbines and one of them got broken off and lost. three Spare clips for the Garands got lost as did one of the shortened magazines for a carbine. Everyone with an AEG got a spare battery and one of them is apparently AWOL although hopefully it will turn up in a pocket or web gear. The loaner uniforms are drying in my garage and I went through all the guns and got them cleaned up and tested.
These local neighbors have little idea about authenticity or the uniforms, gear and weapons and didn't seem to mind that there were no Germans to fight. I plan to have an OPFOR of Germans for next years event. Everyone had fun, were great sports and want to do a big spring game. Even the younger kids were responsible and followed directions just fine.
In the future I will do a more thorough job of issuing gear with a sign out sheet but with allowing folks to swap weapons it was particularly hard to know who lost what. Losses were actually fairly minimal. The fact that ammo was limited and most of the weapons weren't full auto made it a very different airsoft event. Quite a few of the players have done airsoft before and several have their own airsoft guns. Mostly M4s, AKs and MP 5s. They were a little bummed at first when I wouldn't let them use them or their high speed gear but got into it as the day progressed. Most all of them said they loved the style of play. Mission briefings, ambiance and props.
I had a lot of fun. It was our best community game ever.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Dec 2, 2013 15:54:11 GMT -5
I'll bet you had fun! I wish my dad was into airsoft. Sounds like you got some WW2AA recruits.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2013 17:15:10 GMT -5
There is absolutely no doubt that many of the participants have been won over. Several have stated that they are interested in acquiring WW2 set ups.
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Post by newcomer on Dec 3, 2013 18:07:06 GMT -5
sounds like a complete success, shame you are so far up north, else I would have headed on over!
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Post by CPL. Mills 2nd Rangers on Dec 4, 2013 11:14:25 GMT -5
Sounds great, did you get any pics?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 4, 2013 13:06:13 GMT -5
I did but as you can see from my other threads I am technically challenged. i have a photobucket account but they changed the process and I haven't been able to figure it out. I will eventually figure out how to get them posted. in the meantime any one who wants to see pictures of this event or any of my projects just PM me with your direct email and I will get them sent to you. i have pictures of the carbine conversions, the mag alterations for the BAR and cabine, My loaner weapons arms room and the Losheim Gap pictures.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 7, 2013 0:25:09 GMT -5
lots of PMs asking to see pictures and again I am happy to send my favorites to your direct email (just PM me with your email). For those who got them and asked, most of the pictures were taken during the training phases (We did sessions on formations and tactical movement) that is why the players aren't wearing eye protection in a lot of the pictures.
The helmets are mostly my done up plastic shells and all of the web gear are original GI issue WW2 items. 90% of the weapons are mine.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 9, 2013 13:38:04 GMT -5
For Losheim gap we were particularly concerned with the outward appearance items that were visible so we allowed warm comfort clothing under the outer layer that was not period correct. It didn't seem to detract from the ambiance much but with all the layered clothing it was obvious there were lots of occassions where guys didn't feel hits. Especially when running. These lapses were not deliberate (for the most part) but it is something to be especially mindful of in a winter game. Incidently I was a non player, observer (since it was my game) and I found myself being something of a judge on occassion politely letting some of the players know they got hit. it was somewhat non traditional for airsoft but it actually worked pretty well. We forbid anyone calling opponents out although we did encourage folks pointing hits out to team members and I heard some of that. Folks were very good sports about it. We made a point about this in the briefing and encouraged theatrical "deaths" which both the kids and dads did a great job with and seemed to have fun with.
The fact that it's hard to feel hits in a winter game is something to be mindful of. As judges my two Army buddies and I simple wore a green band on our head gear. It allowed us to watch the action up close which we really enjoyed. I also did the mission briefs, and helped with the squad training. The squad training added a lot and my only regret is we should have video taped it. We did field formations, movement and fire and manuever. in the future I would add some individual skills. You could really spot the dads who were ex military due to the way they held their weapons, the way they crawled, their situational awareness, the voice communications.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Dec 9, 2013 19:06:50 GMT -5
I thought the pics looked pretty good and in many cases it was hard to tell what was close enough and what was repro stuff. It certainly created the ambiance of a WW2 themed game.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 9, 2013 19:31:10 GMT -5
Ambiance is my goal and you just can't get that with five guys no matter how perfect they look. When you have 20 plus guys moving down a road or crossing a field using movement by bounds, the wrong boots or an M51 jacket instead of an M43 just doesn't bother me. You know how bad my early costumes were and how good overall folks looked at Jump to Destiny several years later. They weren't perfect but 100 plus guys was cool and we would never have gotten there without the now comical start up efforts. Even back in the silly early days we were having fun.
Most of the folks at this Losheim event wouldn't know an M41 from an M43 and of course had no clue how to put leggings on or why they couldn't use their P 90 or MP5 but they went along with it and ended up having a great time. Most have played WW2 video, first person games, so my weapons and costumes were a welcome change for them and somewhat familiar looking. The only improvement for next year would be a dozen plus reasonably well outfitted Germans so I will work on that. The community insists every year on it being a closed game for neighbors only which is a challenge.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Dec 9, 2013 19:55:54 GMT -5
WWII airsoft has gotten more authentic exponentially over the past few years. I look back at the really old pictures of people and laugh, but by the time Jump to Destiny came around, people knew what they were doing and looked great (I use some JTD pictures on my website). Still, having generous people like 2nd Bat has helped our hobby and get more people addicted on the best possible drug, WWII Airsoft.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 15, 2013 15:17:51 GMT -5
I forgot to mention one of the cool discoveries at Losheim Gap. One of the younger players asked if he could use his TOY Grenades at the event. I was skeptical but asked what he had. He showed me four somewhat silly looking toy "pineapple" grenades that he got from Amazon. You pull the pin and they start ticking. 10 seconds later they make an audible BOOM. You can buy them individually or in lots of four to eight. They are lightweight so you can't throw them very far but they aren't going to hurt anyone either. They were actually pretty cool for the money and added a fun element to the game. Expect of course to lose most of them but they were literally $3.00 each. They worked as they were supposed to most everytime and while quite silly actually did factor into play on occassion. One of my favorite situation was where one was thrown and the defender picked it up to throw back just as it went "BOOM". The sound effects are pretty cool. " TICK TICK TICK BOOOOOOOMMMMMM!". I ordered a batch of them for future events.
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Post by greaser350 on Dec 15, 2013 22:14:18 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 16, 2013 1:04:02 GMT -5
Those are the guys. obviously not visually perfect but you know what they are supposed to be. They have packs of eight on Amazon and I bought two packs. keep in mind that some of them don't work and occassionally they stop ticking when they hit the ground or smack off a tree and them don't go boom. Most worked fine, most of the time. Also not all of them are OD with parts of the entire grenades coming in a silver color. strange? Easy enough to touch up with spray paint. incidently some can be bought in bright yellow which would make them easiert to find. In the between war period and early months of the war US grenades were yellow and in fact the yellow strip at the upper rim of our grenades is a carry over from that.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 18, 2013 18:53:40 GMT -5
After ordering a bunch more of these from Amazon I saw what I think are the exact same things in the toy section at a dollar store. (Obviously priced at a dollar). At that price you can throw them, hope they go BOOM (most seemed to most of the time ) and not worry about finding them again. The audible effects on these toys is actually quite fun. Obviously I wish they were louder but they are cool even as they are.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 8, 2014 17:55:33 GMT -5
New discovery on these cheap little toy grenades. To activate the timer which ultimately sets off the boom you pull the pin and push In the grenade handle (which unlike a real grenade) does not fly off. Occassionally when you throw them this "button" gets re-pushed which TURNS OFF the ticking and keeps it from going BOOM. The discovery is if the ground around your target is soft, pull the pin, start the ticking and throw it. If the target area has hard ground throw the grenade without activating the ticking. Instead of turning off when it hits the ground it will turn on. The most effective deployment is to get used to the ticking time, activate the ticking and time your lob so that it booms in the air before hitting the ground.
This technique (as with a real grenade) takes a little practice. The good news is the learning curve won't kill you. I would have loved to have shipped a bunch of them or Battle of the Bulge or stick them in my luggage but I just wasn't comfortable doing so.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 24, 2014 21:23:42 GMT -5
Getting set for Losheim Gap IV which is held the Saturday After Thanksgiving in our Community Common Area. (24 acres). This is a community sponsored Father /Son WW2 event although requirements are quite loose. I am expecting 30 plus players and will have a couple WW2 vehicles and a Operational base set up with tents and pseuo bunkers.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 28, 2014 18:53:52 GMT -5
The camp is set up thanks to the assistance from the Spencer family and Williams twins. The weather is supposed to be wet and cold. There are tents in place for anyone wanting to sleep over on Friday night. Uniform and gear issue will be at the tent marked G-4. Wear layers that will go under the uniform stuff and please dark shoes or boots. BIO BBs ONLY if you bring any and BBs will be issued so you don't need to bring any. Official sign is at 0900 but please arrive earlier is you haven't already got your gear.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 20, 2015 12:00:40 GMT -5
This year will be my first year with Germans thanks to my costume efforts this past year and trades and support from Dracul and Volks. I am trying to minimize the time wasted getting people costumed and geared up so am encouraging everyone to show up Friday evening to get gear. Since its a neighborhood event this should be doable. Its funny that while most of my costumes are allied with only 10 reasonably solid German set ups, everyone seems to want to go German.
I am emphasizing the coolness factor of the US setups in hopes to sway that. It looks like total turnout will be 30 plus so the Germans will be badly outnumbered. Operation Greif perhaps?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 1, 2015 13:37:08 GMT -5
The weather was bitter cold (for the northwest) with temperatures below freezing but the sky's were clear and no rain. About a dozen guys helped with set up on the Friday after Thanksgiving and that was much appreciated. We pitched tents in the common meadow and while a fire wasn't permitted we had outdoor propane heaters which worked well. We also set out the sandbags to create bunkers and visual effects. At least 10 brave souls slept out on Friday and a half dozen stayed to guard everything Saturday night to guard everything as we took everything down on Sunday.
It's all spread out drying in my garage. I will post a thorough AAR when I get caught up and will post pictures. We had a ball. Turnout on Saturday was not as good as years past but we had 28 players and about 10 support folks (mostly dads).
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Dec 1, 2015 19:53:08 GMT -5
Im more than excited to see how my handiwork with the loaner gear helped out.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 1, 2015 21:06:49 GMT -5
I was up to my eyeballs and took very few pictures but the Dads and one mom took a bazillion I'm sure so I'll have lots to post. One lesson is that US leggings are horrible to issue out and get folks set up with. They make a huge difference appearance wise especially since proper footgear is rare amount my participants and the gaiters really hide that.
A huge opportunity Drac are reproduction pseudo leggings attached with Velcro! I'm serious. Following this weekend I would absolutely be interested.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Dec 1, 2015 22:21:31 GMT -5
I saw this post on my way home and I've been thinking about it....Hmm, and I just got in a few pairs of leggings in from a trade deal...
I have a few ideas in my head.
The cheapest and least best looking: Use velcro and completely skip on the cording and buckles.
The should cost less than repros, and still look decent: Instead of the grommets on one side and hooks on the other, I can put grommets on both sides with a really long cord going through. So, the soldier only needs to slide it over whatever they are wearing, and pull the cord to cinch the legging to needed length. Just like one tie their boots, just with one tie and the laces/cords would be on the sides.
And since you don't mind non-perfection, I can do these up in the canvas I get from Joanns in basic tan color. This stuff might be dye-able, too.
Definitely something to think about and could plan out!
And most importantly!!! These will be MUCH MUCH easier to make than the Kar98 pouches, even if with all the grommets!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2015 1:26:04 GMT -5
I was thinking that the whole hook\lace deal would be strictly cosmetic and the Velcro strip would probably be best placed down the back? The tan canvas you used on that last breadbags you sent would be fine. Once coated in mud and grime any infidelities would be hidden.
Many leggings it seems are the smaller sizes and just not usable over a lot of the footwear players show up with. I realize that learning and appreciating the intricacies of the gear and equipment of the time is part of what we seek but literally getting a dozen people into them only to discovery that half can't be made to work was extremely frustrating and wasteful of time.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Dec 2, 2015 7:54:07 GMT -5
The problem with that, is if I took the time and material to make the lace deal look purely cosmetic, I might as well make it functional. It will take the same amount of time and hardware to make it functional as it would to make it purely cosmetic, and I'd get to skip on wasting all that velcro (which is more expensive than bulk grommets and 550 cord for the lace)
Its still going to be much easier for newbies, s with the way I described with two columns of grommets, instead of one column of grommets and one column of hooks. I don't think I could even source the hooks, to be honest. Putting these one would be like putting on boots that are already laced up to the top, just have to tighten it down, no worrying about hooks.
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Post by volkssturm on Dec 2, 2015 22:18:03 GMT -5
I like the leggings idea. I'm looking forward to how you develop it.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Feb 9, 2016 17:25:32 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 9, 2016 19:17:16 GMT -5
Still waiting to get some pictures from the German side.
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Post by feldwebelheidrich on Feb 28, 2016 16:00:24 GMT -5
I'm going to have to order those grenades and see what I can do about putting them in a better body. anyone seen anything that has a shorter fuse?
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