Jerry-ADK
Private 1st Class
Unteroffizier, Heeresgruppe Nord-Ost
Posts: 418
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Feb 1, 2014 14:33:13 GMT -5
Hey guys, I recently bought a type II Fallschirmjager jumpsmock which is the step in early war type in splinter B. I will probably use it for what ever events I attend this year anyway. The question I have is regarding the different versions of splinter b that I see out there. the smock I bought has a very dark pattern with lots of brown and dark greens, it looks just like this I see alot of reenactors using this pattern though which is more green than brown and much more faded. When I go to buy a type III smock, which pattern would be more correct for Fallschirmjagers appearing in the 1944-1945 phase of the war? Its hard to tell anything from period photos, all the jumpsmocks look very faded. Or should I just go water and tan? I have also read that some Fallschirmjagers recieved the pea dot style camo in late war, maybe for their pants? Never seen a photo of a Fally wearing pea dot. It also appears that plain OD green smocks were worn throughout the war. thanks Jerry
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Post by shiftsup on Feb 1, 2014 19:48:47 GMT -5
Some vendors sell repros that are more aged / vintage than others. The pic on the right, the Hiki FJ smock, that's an iffy Splinter A pattern at best. Definitely not Splinter B. Real smocks, in regards to the more green than brown and vice-versa, that most likely has to do with the colour of the cloth that the pattern was printed on. Lots of Splinter B step in smocks were printed on the olive type cloth used for those early model all green step in smocks.
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Jerry-ADK
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Unteroffizier, Heeresgruppe Nord-Ost
Posts: 418
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Feb 2, 2014 19:50:19 GMT -5
So my step in which came from Spearhead which is darker colored is a better representation of splinter B than the lighter one?
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Post by shiftsup on Feb 2, 2014 21:56:59 GMT -5
I purchased a Spearhead FJ smock around 4 years ago. Mine was a type 3 with faux aging. It was printed on green cloth so it was "more green than brown" in appearance. I thing the Spearhead one in the pick is printed on a browner coloured cloth to give it a "more brown than green" appearance. It doesn't look to be faux aged either. The camo print on mine was Splinter B. Splinter B is just a slightly more intricate and finer camo than Splinter A. My only complaint with the Spearhead smock was that it was too short. I am tall-ish but not in the NBA. Should have came down to my knees instead of ending around mid-thigh.
The Hiki smock pictured, that's just a very poor reproduction of Splinter camo.
There are a few pics of Dot 44 FJ Smocks in the Michael Beaver books. Pretty rare lollipops s. Falls into the same bunker as Leibermuster 45.
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Post by aldrich on Feb 3, 2014 0:07:38 GMT -5
From what I have heard, dot 44 smocks were ordered and manufactured for FJ troops, but none ever reached the front line and they were very late war. I read an interview from a FJ vet who said they were supposed to get them, but they never arrived and he assumed the train they were on was bombed. That is why you can find examples rarely, but never see them used.
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Jerry-ADK
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Unteroffizier, Heeresgruppe Nord-Ost
Posts: 418
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Feb 3, 2014 9:56:45 GMT -5
Thanks guys for the reply's. How about the plain green ones, were they used throughout the war, or only in early smocks? Also, who sells the best representation of water and tan camo? I also read somewhere that some "elite" units of Fallschirm got Dot 44 jump trousers. Is there any truth to that found in your research? I cant remember where I read that, cant find it now so maybe I imagined it.
I found on ebay a bunch of dot 44 fallschirm jump trousers, and kar 98 bandoleers from Spearhead, should I stay away from this stuff? Not like I want to buy undocumented items. I mean I already own a pair of dot 44 winter reversible trousers that I can wear if I want under my smock if that look is documentable.
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Post by shiftsup on Feb 3, 2014 23:27:11 GMT -5
One of the FJ guys up here purchased this: WH Luftwaffe para suit green-grey Looks pretty good. Those were used throughout the war. Best to avoid Dot 44 Bandoleers and Dot 44 FJ Trousers. These are fantasy items more or less. I am surprised Spearhead doesn't sell a Howard W Campbell Jr American SS uniform yet (that'd be kinda cool though.) I believe I read in one of the Michael Beaver books that some US Vets brought back War Trophy Dot 44 smocks that were in storage at Dachau. FJ reenactor up here wrote this up: www.ontarioairsoftwwiireenactors.com/impressionguide.html and this too sites.google.com/site/ontariofjr5/
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Jerry-ADK
Private 1st Class
Unteroffizier, Heeresgruppe Nord-Ost
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Feb 4, 2014 7:26:11 GMT -5
Thanks, that's what I suspected about Fallschirms and dot 44. Going to stay away from undocumentable items. When I bought my first smock a couple of years ago, I got a type III in spring oak for $45. I bought it cause it was cheap, and i know they never made a smock with this kind of camo. I probably won't ever wear it myself with my load out cause I have a splinter B type II now. I'll let a friend use it though if they want to try WW2AS. How much was Italian camo used by Luftwaffe troops? I have seen a few period pics of that kind of trousers being worn.
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Post by shiftsup on Feb 5, 2014 0:10:28 GMT -5
Italian camo was used by all branches of the German Armed Forces in WW2 from 1943. I have seen pictures of FJ's wearing jackets and helmet covers made with Italian camo. At least one FJ wore an SS Smock(Rudolf Rennecke at Monte Cassino)
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Feb 5, 2014 10:31:58 GMT -5
Well, those Iti camo ones were most likely Italian paratrooper smocks, rather than FJ smocks made from Italia. As for camo, I'm no expert on splinter, but usually, hiki is a better choice than spearhead. Hessen has Gavin's type III smocks, and all of the Gavin products I've seen thus far were outstanding, so I'd probably recommend one of those.
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Post by shiftsup on Feb 5, 2014 12:44:06 GMT -5
The italian camo fabric was made into uniforms generally by private tailors or regimental tailors. All branches of the German Armed Forces wore them. Never seen a proper FJ smock made of Italian camo or a Luft FJ wearing and italian para smock. but anything could have happened given the scope of the conflict.
A lot of the Italian camo uniforms worn by Germans would have been made by private tailor (officers?) or regimental tailors. I own a well used original ww2 italian camo 2 pocket field jacket. Well made and a fair amount of thought went into keeping the camo scheme together where pieces were stitched together.
Looks like a utility jacket rather than piece of clothing intended for combat. Also own a shelter half made of italian camo...has the ww2 furniture on it but can't be certain if it's wartime or post war manufacture.
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Post by insterburger on Feb 5, 2014 16:03:58 GMT -5
Jer,
I'm no expert on FJ, but you're of the right mind to err on the side of doing the more documented/basic thing rather than trying to design your impression with "panache."
As far as the early war green smocks: Because FJ was a smaller/elite unit it might be different, but as far as Heer/SS is concerned, nothing should be thought of as having been withdrawn from service. M36 bottle green collars/tabs and tall boots were widely used up to the bitter end. So theoretically early war smocks could work for late war actions. But again, because supplying the Fallis was a much smaller and more straightforward proposition, it could be that they were much better about upgrading gear and less likely to delve into old stocks. I do have a few resources I can look at here that might help.
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Post by insterburger on Feb 5, 2014 19:49:17 GMT -5
I've looked at some sources I have here and also online regarding late war use of early smocks, and the problem is that it's often hard to distinguish between a plain green jump smock and a badly faded camo one. What I can say is that there are numerous pictures taken in the West both before and after the Allied landings that show individual Fallis with smocks that are profoundly different from their comerades-- either the odd very old and badly faded camo among sharp new ones, or solid green. I think a strong case can be made for at least some early war smocks being in field use well into 1944. While it apparently would be more the exception than the norm, I think it is more than plausible and possibly not uncommon. But my caveat is that I'm not an FJ expert and looking at very limited sources.
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Post by shiftsup on Feb 9, 2014 9:03:18 GMT -5
Take a look at the book "Fallschirmjager" by Branislav Radovic. Plenty of pics of green type II smocks used throughout the war.
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Post by insterburger on Feb 9, 2014 10:34:44 GMT -5
Thanks, shiftsup, my eyes weren't deceiving me then. I was looking at "Storming Eagles" by James Lewis among other books. The print quality isn't always brilliant, but there do appear to be solid green smocks in failry common use at all points in the war.
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Jerry-ADK
Private 1st Class
Unteroffizier, Heeresgruppe Nord-Ost
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Feb 9, 2014 13:11:42 GMT -5
Sounds good. My smock as I have said is the spearhead type II in splinter b. It's too new looking though because it is the darker print. I'm going to keep washing it a bunch to try and age it a bit. Any suggestions on weathering it? I know wearing it all the time would work, but I might get some looks from people around town.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 9, 2014 16:05:33 GMT -5
Wash it and leave it outside exposed to the elements. Wash it and leave it outside exposed to the elements, repeat until happy with the results. I just washed my splinter smock multiple times to soften its look and after three washings am pleased with the look. a few additional events with real use and it should look great.
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