Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Sept 6, 2014 18:01:06 GMT -5
I've been noticing a lot of VSR-10 clones and a lot of bolt action sniper rifles, sans the JG BAR-10, have been going down in price. I know most of those lesser quality ones with plastic trigger boxes and such, but most are still rather upgrade-able. Point is, the price should not be 300, unless it was real wood, good quality metal, and pre-upgraded with a tightbore and to shoot like 450 w/ .4's or something crazy like that.
I agree with Stuka here, 120-150 for a fake wood, metal internals and hardware, VSR-10 cloned, WWI/WWII rifle would be amazing. Anything more would warranting real wood and other pre-upgraded parts.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 6, 2014 18:45:02 GMT -5
That to me seem quite reasonable and totally within the realm of possibilities. I must be missing something as so far it has not been done and surely they must realize if a half dozen companies are doing some variant of a non descript, non iconic rifle like a VSR and selling enough of them to make it worthwhile they must recognize that a single company providing a more iconic, more desireable and more recognizable rifle like any of the main battle rifles from the worlds largest conflict would make sense.
perhaps its because early on they offered persnickety, non skirmishable guns like the Marushin M1s the Hudson Grease gun and the shell ejecting Kar 98s and when they disn't sell well assumed there was no demand.
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Post by volkssturm on Sept 6, 2014 19:29:53 GMT -5
To go from a basic VSR to a Close-Enough-for-Airsoft replica of any of the main rifles they'd need to make a probably diecast shell that looks like the receiver of the gun being replicated to go over, or better replace, the tubular receiver of the VSR, make the tail end of the bolt look like the appropriate weapon's bolt sleeve and cocking piece, use the correct bolt handle, put on the correct sights, and injection mold the correct stock. This means producing a considerable number of different parts for different models where the VSR10 and its relatives all have pretty common parts. That's going to add some cost. But look at the shell ejecting Kar98's and how many parts they have. I can't imagine that a production Kar98 or Arisaka Type 99 built around the VSR10 internals would cost more than $10 - $30 dollars extra to produce.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 6, 2014 19:42:55 GMT -5
It of course all comes down to economy of scale. if the extra production/ design costs have to be spread out amongst 1000 sales thats very different then the cost spread out amongst 10,000 sales. Agree with you that the added costs over and above a regular Bar 10 should be more then $20.00 or $30.00 per unit so a $150.00 retail price seems very doable.
How CYMA UK arms is able to sell their little springer carine for under $50.00 is very encouraging and should be an inspiration to what the success of a well done, inexpensive replica can do. A Kar 98 / Springfield etc would have to produce 400 FPs (or more) FPS be truly skirmishable in the role of main battle rifle but again that seems quite doable.
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Post by hennepin15 on Sept 6, 2014 19:44:02 GMT -5
It seems so obvious that they should be made. What have airsoft companies said about it?
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efrimann
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Have anyone seen an antitank gun replica used in a softair games? If so, where? What does such a thi
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Post by efrimann on Feb 2, 2015 17:58:47 GMT -5
Anyone want to build a G43 on their own? Maybe my sketchup 3D drawings could help? Shoot 'n' Scoot has some parts to make the job easiser, but those parts might be bettered. How could it be done? The stock and partly the handguard is rather similiar to the Kar98K, but a bit wider. If we cheat a little bit, the metal butt stock plate could be reused. Made from laminated waterproof plywood, much like the real thing, preferbly in two long parts to ease the chiseling. Only the rear end part shrinks back to fit kar98k parts, but the body could be made wide enough to accept a stripped single-fire only M14 gearbox (saves a few mm). It'll be strong as steel. The magazine could be a normal M14 mag, maybe with some decor for the choosy. Real G43 mags are hard to find. The gearbox and other internals could be a normal M14. The trigger guard was in real life made from a metal strip, so thats quite possible. No machining needed. As were the front sight guards. The rear sights could be a AK47 sparepart, but I'll have to check. The front band, holding the handguard, barrel and stock together.. Hm. Maybe a prototype in MDF or plasticine, then cast in metallic resin or aluminium? If someone would make a dozen or so, sign me up for two. The crux is off course the bolt holder. If a ver.7 (M14) gearbox is used, I suppose it can be altered to provide electric blow back, but it will be flimsy at best. The rear part of the receiver could need quite a bit of machining. A simpler solution could be a piece of iron pipe with a good end plug, it would go a long way. Like the Cyma M14, blow back may not be important, but some way of cocking the gun with some metallic noise could be nice. If not, shoot'n'scoot has a hard rubber top to study for a constructing a more metallic version - but it is expensive. But, if one piece fits all, things are getting more easy. I know Shoei makes a G43, and it is a beautiful as a jewel box, and cost what such a box normally contains. 2nd bat, you've doing this for a long time. In your experience, how much should a wood and metal G43 with few or no movable/breakable parts (but with a good weathered look to make flaws charming) cost among honourable men? Here are some pics of possible parts
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 2, 2015 19:17:17 GMT -5
To build yourself $200.00 or less. To buy from someone who builds them it all depends on how many components can be produced with minimal materials costs and minimal time. Time required ultimately is the real expense. If a custom production requires 30 labor hours to do and $30.00 in materials anything over $30.00 is profit right? But wait if I could take an hourly job of skilled labor and be paint $20.00 an hour my opportunity cost for that 30 hours is $600.00. Hmmmmmm? Beginning to see why low volume custom work costs so much? There is a reason everyone here offering custom rifles stopped doing them. The price you need to make on them exceeds the market. If sufficient demand was there to sell in volume setting up the tooling to reduce labor time would make sense but knowing where the balance point and break even is on your investment is risky. Gryphon some years go ran with his desire to provide a PPSH as so many people said they wanted one. His set up cost were minimal as he is by profession a prop manufacturer. He essentially donated his expertise and labor to get them tooled up. They were beautifully done on a product no one was making. he sold a few but no where hear what he needed to have it make sense. Long before he recouped his outlay and sweat equity numerous companies from China introduced their versions at one third what he needed to sell his for. His risk was answered with apathy and apologies. No return on investment whatsoever. The long awaited GnG Garand is out but tragically they don't seem to be selling (I hope I am wrong on that). Obviously if not, subsequent WW2 offerings from them will simply not materialize. Our nich is just too small for historical offerings to pencil out. wanting and doing are two very largely different things. a G43 would be awesome. Perhaps if someone here has access to a large 3 D printer? The possibilities would be endless but I sure wouldn't buy one knowing how many sales Id have to make to recover the outlay.
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efrimann
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Have anyone seen an antitank gun replica used in a softair games? If so, where? What does such a thi
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Post by efrimann on Feb 3, 2015 3:47:20 GMT -5
So one has to figure out how to make an attractive rifle at $200. Shoot'n'Scoot in UK charge some $445 for a Lee Enfield with work still to be done, and $560 for one that's ready. So your calculation is obviously correct.
So it can only be for fun. It just burns my guts to set up for making a Mont Blanc fountain pen, making only a single one. It runs contradictornary to all I know. Oh, well. Small batches, if materials are cheap and/or expensive stuff can be fitted when someone decides to own one, it could be ok.
By the way, I bought a Marushin M1 Garand last week, 8mm BB with ejecting clip and all. How anyone figured out to design and produce that one, is beyond me. Completely useless, but also very, very nice.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Feb 3, 2015 9:17:21 GMT -5
Honestly, the majority of people who are willing to buy a $500 Marushin Garand that breaks would be willing to pay $8-900 for a steel one with the same design that works. The Garand has its flaws, but these are mostly traceable to crappy pot metal being used. If the design was kept the same but quality metal was used, the rifle would be a winner. Heck, efriemmann, if you can get a machine shop CNCing steel parts efficiently and somewhat affordably, you (and they) would have a lot of business quickly. Just another thing to add to your list of projects.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 3, 2015 11:59:42 GMT -5
My guess is you'd need to fabricate the needed parts in aluminum as the weight of sufficiently strong steel parts would restrict the functionality and probably render the Marushin M1 as inconsistent as it currently is. Pock metal is cheap as it is cheap material while easy and inexpensive to produce. It is also lighterweight. Aluminum is unfortunately expensive material, challenging to work with but 30% stronger while 30% lighter. Aluminum would be the way to go but probably restrictively expensive.
efrimen. i too am never quite happy making one of anything as once Ive gone to the challenge of solving a roadblock I want to spread that learning into a greater return. I also hate buying materials and having most of it left over. On low production numbers I usually discover if I build three of something I can sell one of them with enough markup on my labor to pay for the two I keep! In some cases I sell two of them to fund an additional project.
its taken me 20 years but my massive armory is all paid for out of my labor. I have close to 30 historic airsoft weapons and probably I am in the plus colume financially. This has been a lot of labor but has been a real labor of love. good luck with your efforts.
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efrimann
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Have anyone seen an antitank gun replica used in a softair games? If so, where? What does such a thi
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Post by efrimann on Mar 7, 2015 18:35:31 GMT -5
Eshopasia stock arisaka rifles again. Tanaka stuff, and the price still make a well done VSR10-type home made somesthing I would prefer.
And how no one has made a conversion kit for the DBOYS? Anyone tried to keep the nice looking bolt a fit a better system somewhere under the hand guard? A bit like a tandem?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 7, 2015 20:31:21 GMT -5
There are a couple threads here already on marriages of the DBoys Kar 98 and a Bar 10.
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