Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Mar 24, 2015 19:58:43 GMT -5
I have two of these Mags myself for one of these springer M14's. I did a crappy mod to it it to make a sort of mock a M1 "tanker" Garand. I'm thinking about cutting these mags down as well.
If there was only a cheap, decent way to do convert these springer M14's to Garands. I know its kind of pointless now, with the M1 Carbines out, but its a pretty good shooter and doesn't feel cheap.
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Post by hardslack on Mar 24, 2015 21:58:18 GMT -5
I found it much easier to mod the rear mag catch with electricians tape on some loose m14 mags I have than to add to the lip. Even fancy high strentgh plastic and epoxy didnt bond well enough.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 24, 2015 22:37:31 GMT -5
Dracul,
Would you mind seprating the sides of one to determine if the inner channels will facilitate having a section removed and perhaps give me some idea how much could be removed? I had high hopes for the inexpensive all plastic M14 midcaps only to be disappointed to discover the inner route was so convaluted that there was no way to shorten it and have it all line up.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Mar 25, 2015 5:16:48 GMT -5
When I get home today, I definitely will. First day on this job, too.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 25, 2015 12:18:01 GMT -5
If upon seeing that the potential is there to shorten them I will buy a large batch of them and share details on the results. I hope they have the potential to work out. My goal is to find a way to create flush mounted clips for my conversions that are inexpensive enough to buy lots of but feed between 18 and 24 rounds. The 30 rounds in my ICS is too many (and the clips are expensive) and the shotgun mags at 10-12 rounds are too few. I'd also like to see them fit in the Garand belt pouches!
If the feed channel at the base of the magazine can align with the magazine cap once sufficiently shortened we probably have a winner! I can see where the spring goes in at the top rear of the magazine and obviously where the feed hole is at the top front. My fear is that the channel is not a simple "U" or even a symetric inverted rounded "w" (which could also work) but something bizarre like the cheap mid caps.
Incidently for the shotgun mags the feed hole was ever so slightly too far forward on the magazine so an ABS thin tab creates that gap. I attached the ABS tab to the shotty magazines with ABS glue and for the most part they have remained in place. Once in a while I have had to replace them. The shotgun mags work without the tab but somewhat less consistently. The size of this front tab somewhat varys by the M14 brand (Marui, AGM, Echo 1, Cyma etc) so light filing is sometimes called for.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Mar 25, 2015 18:56:18 GMT -5
So, here is a quick picture guide I threw together about these. Note, I hope the AGM ones are clones of these, but they might be different. These are the TSD ones. While I'm fairly certain AGM just cloned TSD, I can't be certain its 100% the same. The top of the mag. See this hi-cap style slide door right under my pointer finger? It has no purpose and you can't slide it at all. It doesn't hold the spring in place, either. Note that this is an AEG style mag, even though its made for a springer, its has the AEG style follower and the spring loaded follower stop. You have to be real careful when opening it up. Slightly crack open the top first, slowly, so the follower shoots out as slow as it can. Luckily, the follower is attached to the spring. So, you really can't lose it unless you lose the whole spring. Be mindful of the follower stop, though. As you can see, its built almost like the M1 Carbine mags. Same shortening method SHOULD work for it. Only difference is dis-assembly and reassembly. A ruler for scale and measurements. When I was working with these, the follower stop stayed in quite well by itself. To reassemble, I let the spring hang out an inch or so from the top, and I put the two sides together. I left a few mm gap between the sides, and thats when I pushed in the follower and then closed up the two sides completely. It was all rather simple, the spring isn't super strong. It's not like trying to shove a M150 spring into a gearbox. So, not too painful of a process.
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Post by volkssturm on Mar 25, 2015 20:57:55 GMT -5
Darn! They wasted a good 3/4 inch by not running the channel all the way to the bottom.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 25, 2015 22:15:55 GMT -5
I was thinking exactly the same thing and one has to wonder why? In an effort to get it as short as possible without impacting capacity will require one more cut which is a pitty. The plain "U" certainly will be accomodating and the spring driven Bb stopper at the top is a nice, simple horizontal lay out that should simplify reinsertion of the shortened spring and reassembly of the converted magazine. Looks like three horizontal cuts with one cut that won't require extreme precision. It will be interesting to see if cut to a "flush mounted height" (or there abouts) what the Bb capacity will be?
Dracul, thanks for finding the time to quickly get that posted. This gives me the confidence to order a bunch of them. I am predicting a 14 round capacity! Not any better than the shotgun mags but at the present sale price these will be cheaper. I am anticipating I will size them quite a bit taller than the shot gun mags and I am going to extend the lower curved channel a bit which will be somewhat less distracting than a "too long" magazine while providing a" pinch" surface that will facilitate reloads. I still wish the spring slid in from the top rear! So much easier!
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Mar 25, 2015 23:05:20 GMT -5
Not a problem at all!
Whats also pretty odd, is that the extra space at the bottom, make these mags longer than the standard AEG ones. Not sure if they are 1:1 scale to the live steel, but they are longer and stick out more then the AEG ones. I can take a pictures of this tomorrow if you want.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 26, 2015 0:19:26 GMT -5
The incorporation of the fake latch tells the story. They copy without the realization that its uneccessary. On the Well Carbine they have the finger groove speed cockers, permanently fixed where the charging rod would be obviously they saw this incongruent adaptation on the Japanese Marushin gas carbine and assumed it belonged there.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Mar 26, 2015 5:41:19 GMT -5
And such is the sad fate of clone companies. They clone others without referencing the originals. I have some time this morning, so I took some pics between the TSD M14 mag and an AEG M14 Mag. Sticking out from the rifle. Without looking at and comparing the TSD mag to a live steel one, personally, I think TSD wanted to make their mags 1:1 scale. Or at least close to it, because its obvious they didn't compensate for how far the mag is supposed to stick out of the gun, or how much space the action takes up.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 26, 2015 12:27:10 GMT -5
I can tell you without reservation that this springer mag is quite a bit longer than a real M14 mag. Strange, especially given the unused space inside the magazine. visually the normal AEG mags are spot on. This mag is goofy long. obviously not an issue in my case as they will be shortened regardless. The real question will be just how short I can make them while still offering reasonable capacity.
incidently without free shipping they ended up about double the sale price. Still cheaper than the best deal I have found on the shotty mags. My goal is to size them at between 2 and 2 1/4"s. In reality that may be impractical. The short MAG brand M14 magazines are 3 inches long. They stick out about an inch below the M14 to M1 conversions.
The Airsoft Megastore website always freezes my computer for some reason so for me navigating their site is always challenging but I managed to get 16 of these ordered. With shipping they ended up well below $3.00 each which is cheap. If I bugger up a couple of them in the process its no big deal.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Mar 26, 2015 13:24:10 GMT -5
Well, if anything then, that just makes these even more of an oddity....
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Post by hardslack on Mar 27, 2015 18:27:36 GMT -5
Do these plastic mags feed consistently in the AEG's? The low capacity and single stack is appealing... Last year I shelled a bunch out for CYMA midcaps for an event, now it looks like I could have a truckload of lowcaps for a third of the price of CYMA's!
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Mar 27, 2015 18:49:23 GMT -5
To use these in AEG's, you need to add the front lip. Otherwise, they won't lock in properly, and you'll have to hold it in place while firing.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 27, 2015 22:12:39 GMT -5
With the added lip, they should work fine and shouldn't require that they be held in place. The extra length at the base could easily be cut off without requiring an expecially precise cut. Keep in mind they are a plastic magazine with visible screws so not the overall quality of regularly purchased, metal housed, AEG magazines. i have a bunch of the plastic 110 round mid caps and have been pleased with their performance and only wished their internal channel routing was compatible with shortening. Sadly they are not. They work fine in my homemade BAR which I set up to use M14 magazines.
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Post by volkssturm on Jun 19, 2015 14:57:35 GMT -5
I finally got around to reassembling this thing enough to test fire it. It chromos at 269-270, which isn't bad for a cheap aeg. Now I'm thinking this could be an adequate T26 "Tanker" Garand. Not historically accurate (though it should have been, darn it), but good enough for a loaner, REMF weapon.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 19, 2015 15:56:07 GMT -5
269-270 is stronger than the WELL D-96 carbine which shoots at a dismal 230-240 FPS (w/ .20 gram). I assumed the internals were one and the same. (clearly they are not). I wonder if a somewhat longer barrel would help or hurt? If it would help (even a little). I'd recommend going for a one to one! Too bad My old plastic handguard and stock augmentation molds and gas assembly molds wore out. Those parts were super cheap to produce.
($35.00 or so in plastic for a complete set)
The mags work quite well in my AEG Garands following the shortening process I used. The feed great, load easily and aren't very conspicuos below the gun. They were certainly cheap enough to buy!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 24, 2015 17:54:55 GMT -5
With the news that the cheap AEG M-14 shoots a bit harder that the Well D96 it is tempting to do something WW2 with it. Perhaps an Ivar Johnson or attempt to use the guts in the Well Carbine shell which is decidedly larger than the CYMA carbine. The other thought would be to try to install a CYMA. m14 gear box inside the CYMA shell.
280 FPS kinda works for sub machine guns or carbines but in my opinion isn't really where it needs to be for a main battle rifle. Especially with so many stock AEGs firing at 400 FPS (and higher). I remember when virtually all airsoft guns came from Japan, were $300.00 plus dollars and without expensive upgrades fired at 290 FPS .
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Post by volkssturm on Jun 24, 2015 18:06:16 GMT -5
I put a shorter TB barrel that I have on it. FPS came in lower. I've got a longer aluminum barrel from a cheap AK that gave me 250-260. I'm debating whether to get a long TB barrel. I don't really want to put much into this. I'll have t put the original barrel on it and see if the FPS remains the same.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 24, 2015 18:24:20 GMT -5
While you're at it use some plumbers tape at assorted locations (like where the rubber meets your barrel, and at the piston nozzle etc) and see if that helps? At these FPS even 10 FPS is a lot. Interestingly a tightbore barrel sometimes hurts range. I find that improving the snugness of the inner barrel against the housing (the guns shell or an outerbarrel with tape or a filler really helps accuracy.
Keep us posted.
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