2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 21, 2015 14:44:12 GMT -5
I recently have been working on inletting some actual M1 Garand stocks for my M14 to M1 conversions although this is definitely NOT a project for the feint of heart. The inletting is tedious, time consuming (and then some) and precise work. To add insult injury most Garand stocks are simply too thin through the neck to work as the shape and size won't accomodate the version seven gear box. Post war Danish stocks are slightly thicker through the neck and BARELY work. Ultimately for strength you need to apply a thin fiberglass wall inside the neck for strength. the inletting work perhaps merits a whole seperate thread but I recommend against the project for most do it yourselfers.
Having recently been working on a couple of stocks I discovered that since I had to modify the mag well area anyway I could create room for a slight modification to the short shotty mags I typically use to load my 2nd Bat Garands. the mag well opening in a garand stock is wider and not as long as the M14 so an area to the front of the Garand hole needs to be cut out. With the added width I realized that I had some room to play with on the side walls of these relatively thin shotgun mags. So what I did is added some fake bullets and plastic side walls to create more of an "enblock look". The added thickness and slight increase in weight makes them somewhat easier to handle and load. Mostly I did it cause I thought they would look cooler. they still fit in the Garand pouches and I am considering finishing the Garand stock bases and adding a tiny amount of material to the clip base so the Garand conversion will eliminate the mag hole at the bottom and create a more finished look.
The ICS and GnG Garands somewhat inspired me here as their more finished look on the bottom is appealing but I wanted to still be able to easily fit the clips in the Garand ammo belt. i also wished the ICS and GnG clips provided a look more reminiscent of the iconic enblock clip and that is what I am replicating here.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 23, 2015 3:52:06 GMT -5
These projects are always filled with challenges not imagined when you visualize a concept. To function properly in the gun, further tweaking was required to my shotty magazines and the mag wells in the 2nd Bat conversions. I am not thrilled with my current efforts but have some additional thoughts. The ultimate goal is something that will look cooler and function smoothly and flawlessly. I want ultimately to have mags that look good outside of the guns and create a more garand like look when they are in the gun.
I also want a clip design that will load and reload seamlessly since 12 round capacity neccessitates lots of reloads.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 24, 2015 1:00:50 GMT -5
So I've nearly finished three of these modified shotty mags with the added height and enblock cosmetics. They are drying and will require sone final detail and finish work but I am generally pleased with the results. To make more of them I will need to order some essential components. I will post some pictures once they are completely finished. Simultaneously I am working on another completely different clip approach which is also showing promise and likewise I will post pictures of that process as well.
Both of these adaptations are things I wish I had attempted long ago but either or both provide do it yourselfers with some new ways to enhance their M14 to M1 conversions.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Feb 24, 2015 10:44:32 GMT -5
This shows some of the assorted clips used in the M14 to M1 conversions. discussed in the Forum in the DIY section. The clip in the center is the simple flush mounted shotty mag modified to work in a version 7 base gun. It holds 15 rounds, feeds 12 rounds (3 drop). I paint mine brass and add some ABS sidewalls so they fit snug in the normal conversions. The clip on the left is a cosmettically tweaked shotty mag modified for use in Garand conversions using inletted actual stocks. The clip on the right is a cut down MAG 70 round midcap. it unfortunately is a bit too long and protrudes quite a bit below the Garand stock. Later in the thread I'll show an approach I took to modify it. The two Garand conversions shown are built with inletted actual Garand stocks. Because the mag well is wider there is room to add the fake bullet shells and make them a bit taller This picture shows the added width of an actual Garand stock mag well opening (vs the M14) note that I had to cut some additional length to the feed well. when placed inside the magwell the base of the pseudo "enblock" clips have a partial base that creates a more finished look to the base than is typical in my 2nd Bat Garands. I have subsequent to this picture added black side walls where the base plate would have been and butt plates. Obviously the mod is far from looking like an actual enblock clip (shown between the two rifles) but it is loosely reminiscent, fits in the Garand belt pockets and are much easier to find on the ground if they get dropped. the bullets could not be pushed all the way to the back or all the way to the top and still fit so those visual infidelities had to be made. Thanks Dracul
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 24, 2015 13:08:33 GMT -5
Thanks once again for posting these pictures. I am abusing your generosity with all these pictures but since I have been home for three straight weeks I have had a myriad of projects and without pictures most don't make much sense to others who may wish to try these or find they stimulate other thoughts.
In response to a PM: Yes, the two stocks shown in these pictures are the inletted ACTUAL Garand stocks that I recently finished up. In these pictures there was some obvious finish work still needing to be addressed (butt plates, sling hardware, the augmented side walls in the mag plate area and final stains and sealing)
The neck cuts and assorted boo boos came out quite nicely and they both feel solid and work great. I am proud of the pseudo wood finishes I create but have to admit there is something cool about real wood and especially when it was from a one time actual MILITARY rifle.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Feb 26, 2015 4:24:54 GMT -5
Here is an entirely different approach to modified shortened M14 mags. The MAG I start with are the already shortened 70 round mid caps offered in four packs for around $45.00. they are made by a company called MAG.
This is not an order that makes sense but this shows this project. M14 to M1 magazine adaptation. This shows the internal flow for the already shortened 70 round midcap M14 magazine. It shows the inner shell (in two halves) the main spring. The BB stop and its tiny spring. The Spring guide and the assembly screws. the mag has spacers on the outside walls that hold it snug in the metal outer housing. This picture shows the metal housing removed with the intial cut. I had to redeem the upper, forward area that contains the BB stop mechanism. A later cut into the lower section mirrors the BB stop area by cutting a matching section out of the lower cut. This requires a cut accross the mag followed by a zig zag cut this picture shows how far the original 70 round magazine stuck out from a Garand stock which is obviously better than a conventional M14 magazine but too distracting for me. The lower clip is the commonly used shotgun mag with flush height and fake bullets added to the sidewalls. (my earlier, recent project) Once cut down you can see how the new channel is created (half of the circular channel has been eliminated). You can see how the BB stop internals fit in with the remaining BB feed channel. The Spring guide has to then be ABS glued into the butt end of the now single curved channel. (This insures the spring folds neatly when compressed). The two halves provide room for 28 BBs which is actually somewhat more than I had anticipated. I cut the spring to nearly half its original length and reinstalled it. Prior to reinstalling it I made sure BBs rolled through the channels freely and there were no snags. All burrs (no matter how tiny) were removed by sanding. 2nd Bat
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Feb 26, 2015 4:30:08 GMT -5
Follow up from 2ndBat:
The original 70 round mag height on the right and these new modified "enblock clip" on the left. (detail work still to be done) Clip work for my assortment of Garand AEGs. The clip height once reduced to the modified height. Note some shaving to the bottom of the mag. I will build up the area on the Garand mag well walls and create a shape that blends it into this shortened clip. It will still not be completely flush but far far closer than the original 70 round magazine. I assembled the magazine, installed the BBs stop mechanism and the reduced length Spring. Of the 28 rounds capacity It feeds 24 or 25 rounds (3 round BB drop). Once checked for function I added the sliced in half rounds in the shaved sidewalls and added an ABS "enblock " wall. Note the size when compared to the original metal outer housing. Cosmetically this has to be cleaned up a bit and the base will be finished so when inserted fully in the Garand it will come as close as I can to looking like the M1 trigger base plate. I hope this helps clarify my efforts to come up with a few more approaches to feed systems for the M14 to M1 conversions. This latest mag project is ambitious but interestingly will be between the GnG and ICS clip capacity and will fit nicely in the Garand pouches. The earlier modification of the shotty mag is too thick for the M14 stock which could be modified to work. This modified 70 round clip (now 28 rounds) would require very minimal shaving to the inner walls of the M14 mag well s hence could be used in any 2nd Bat Conversion. Not just the ones done with ACTUAL Garand stocks. I will provide some finished pictures of both these recent clip approaches when I create sufficient numbers of them for my rifles and am satisfied with the final designs. unless it looks dreadful I'll show what they look like snapped into my conversions. 2nd Bat
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 27, 2015 1:02:48 GMT -5
Replacing even the cut down spring into these double stacker clips was a nightmare. There must be a technique or tool for doing it. You have to work the spring down into the magazine with the halves slightly seperated and then once you finally get the spring nipple past the BB stop, close the two halves with everything aligned. It took at least seven trys to get it. aaaarrrrgggghhhhh! The 70 round shortened mags are $15.00 a piece so expensive mags to modify. I love the final result but not sure they are worth the trouble.
I am going to take apart a 110 round full sized mid cap magazine tomorrow to see if they mght be useable for this modification? They insert the spring from the top toward the back once the mag is assembled and would eliminate the spring gymnastics necessary with the shortened mags. They can be purchased quite affordably in Boxes of 10 at a price that works out to about $6.00 a piece. If they can be made to work that would be the way to go.
Today I did some fill and cosmetic work on the clips I did up. Once they dry overnight I will shape and sand them down and do my base plate fitting. I also did some additional work on the Garand mag well area which will need still more additional finish work. I got the ferrule / sling hardware in and installed and modified some M14 butt plates for my actual Garand stocks. I had to remove the M14 butt plate flaps and cut away of the upper flap extension on the M14 butt plates. In addition there was quite a bit of dremel work on the Garand stocks down at the butt. Finally I had to do a little resin fill on the vacant slits where the M14 butt plate flaps hinged. Once all done these should work great. Garand butt plates have gotten rediculously expensive and their trap door doesn't quite accomodate a full sized battery so modifying the M14 butt plate has several upsides not the least of which I save a bit of money. Hopefully by the end of the weekend I will have something to show for three or four days of tinkering!
Between the mag well tweaking on the Garands the butt plate modification work and the magazine finish work, the end results I'm hoping for should start coming together.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 27, 2015 13:35:34 GMT -5
The inexpensive, full sized mid cap M14 magazines do not work for modified clips. The inner channel route is complex and not conducive to shortening. . Very disappointing!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 27, 2015 22:02:31 GMT -5
I finished the mag well build up on my three personal M1 Garands to facilitate these new mags and once the detail work is done I will add what will essentially be the base plate to each of these. It appears I can finish each of my rifles uniformly enough that the mags will be interchangeabe. That is my hope anyway. The effect I was seeking looks to be achievable. I will know for sure by tomorrow.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 2, 2015 0:57:46 GMT -5
For the shortened mid caps M14 magazines and the deeper shot gun mags I have decided against mounting a flat base plate. The shape at the bottom with a little clean up looks okay to me as it is. Also even with the thin base plate they do not fit in the Garand pouches which is a critical goal. Also I am reconsidering trying to shorten a 110 midcap. There just might be a way to do so and if so the savings will be considerable and if it works they should end up as around a 45 round magazine. The channel is tricky. The entire center section will have to be removed leaving a shape not unlike a drain horizontal "S". getting three channel connections to line up without snags may be undoable.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Mar 2, 2015 16:14:23 GMT -5
More stuff from 2ndBat!
These photos show the assorted magazine approaches I recently worked on. This is an enlarged shotgun mag with a base plate cap installed. It looks okay in the mag well but not noticeable better than the mag without the cap. The cap (even though I designed it to be thin) prevents the clip from easily inserting in the Garand belt pockets. Here is a different enlarged shottie mag without the base plate. I think it looks just as (good? / Bad?) and of course it slides nicely in and out of the pouches. This is a highly modified 70 round Mid cap mag reduced to 28 rounds that protrudes a little but looks okay. I like the ability to feed 28 rounds per mag VS the 12 with the shotties so I will make more for myself This shows the clips outside the gun with my added fake (cut in half) bullets. This shows the un modified 70 round M14 clip which is visually a bit distracting but in gameplay not horrible. Incidently these are the two of the three real Garand Walnut stocks that I recently installed on existing rifles which inspired the clip designs. 2nd Bat
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 23, 2015 14:34:00 GMT -5
Even though they protrude a bit (as shown in the picture above). the commercially available 70 round, shortened mag is my recommended way to go with M14 to M1 conversions. For greater authenticity the flush mounted 12 round shotty mags are also very cool. The reason I suggest the 70 rounders is visually while not ideal in reality during game play the discrepency is barely noticeable. The mags feed great and frankly the 70 round capacity is pretty nice from a skirmishability perspective. Reloading every 12 rounds although authentic leaves you horribly exposed at our abbreviated airsoft ranges and too vulnerable against typical full auto airsoft opponents. I like the authenticity of reloads but 12 rounds is just too often at most airsoft events. One can always load less rounds in the 70 rounders. I feel like 30 rounds or so is a perfect compromise.
The MAG rounds are expensive at about 15.00 a piece but when compared to the $6.00 each for the 12 round shotties you'll spend $36.00 and lots of build time to get to the 70 rounds of ready ammunition. Two 70 round magazines and a speed loader will make each rifleman with a Garand quite battleworthy. With the 12 rounders I felt like each rifle needed about 8 clips to 10 clips on hand. The loading process for the shotty clips is a bit awkward as well and requires lots of practice.
I'll do a seperate post on that!
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Post by insterburger on Mar 23, 2015 15:34:45 GMT -5
Actually, those twelve rounders could be a good equalizer when engaging against Bar98s. Semi-auto with frequent reloads vs. a relatively high capacity bolt action sounds reasonably fair to me.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 23, 2015 15:50:34 GMT -5
Indeed, if you are in an event where players are all willingly making the effort to up the authenticity and emmersive quotient where few full autos are employed and a high percentage of bolt actions and springers are used the Garand Conversions with the 12 rounders are absolutely the way to go. The fact that VSR based guns go 28 rounds or so but have to be cocked each time and the CYMA springers have around 25 ready rounds makes for very different airsoft experience. Guys definitely think about their shots and suppressive support truly is an act of generosity. Full auto weapons like machine guns are huge considerations tactically, it makes for a wonderfully emmersive event.
These are all worthwhile goals but most events just aren't there yet.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Mar 23, 2015 19:43:24 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 25, 2015 22:31:55 GMT -5
That (the Japanese Garand copy) was certainly one of those little known curiosities of the war but far too obscure for me to justify the effort. No doubt the look could be replicated however!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 26, 2015 13:43:30 GMT -5
I am now exploring still another approach to "garand" clips for the M14 to M1 conversions. I have purchased a batch of the inexpensive M14 springer magazines which have a top feed alignment that apears identical to the shotty mags. They are traditional low cap magazines that feed 38 rounds. The outside of the mags are plastic which is fine for my purposes. The inner channel is a simple long "U". It is my hope that like the carbine mags they can have their center sections cut out and be shortened to about 2 1/2 inches. At that they will be longer than the shotty mags but shorter than the 70 round, short, midcaps. It remains to be seen if the resulting BB capacity will be acceptable. I hope they will be equal to or a little greater than the shotty mags which feed 10 to 12 rounds. If they protrude from the bottom of the M1 stock a little bit I'll be okay with that. with a sling and in gameplay this really isn't very distracting. A slight protubance will probably facilitate ease of reloads which is critical with low low cap clips.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Apr 2, 2015 20:40:29 GMT -5
From 2ndBat!
still another approach to clips for the M14 to M1 conversions! I received the inexpensive Springer M14 mags and set to work figuring out how best to shorten them. Upon receiving them the first thing I did was make sure that unmodified they would feed an AEG M14. As expected they will need the tab in front as with the shotgun mags in order to fit correctly and feed consistently. The rear inset does align with the mag release although not perfectly. Some slight tweaking will no doubt be called for. I next removed the screws and seperated the halves taking care not to let the spring and spring feed nipple fly off. upon inspecting the inner "U" shaped channel it was clear that a sizeable section on the bottom of the mag could be cut off and discarded. This cut doesn't have to be precise and will be cosmetically filled in later. I them established how much of the center section I could remove and decided to remove nearly all of the straight sections. (roughly 2 3/4 inches). With up to an inch removed from the base this gives the visual effect I am looking for. (Note that on the base the inch removed is NOT straight across as the curved channel base remains). More on this later. I tape the two side together so my two critical cuts will be precise and 90 degrees across and side to side. This is vital to insure a snug reattachment top to bottom. The picture below shows the removed center section at the top. A comercial shortened 70 round mid cap that one can buy for around $18.00 and to the right one of my modified shotgun clips with added depth so it fits perfectly snug in my Garand conversions. In the center is the shortened springer mag awaiting gluing top to bottom. It still has the tape guides attached. By design the rounded portion of the mag will protrude but shouldn't be too distracting while still leaving reasonable mag capacity. This picture (below) shows the inner channels for some springer shortened clips. The BB stop and spring is above the halves along with a sliding tab (no purpose whatever and the main spring a feed nipple. I am hoping that the long length of the feed nipple will reduce the normal dropping of BBs between reloads that happen with normal (shorter) feed nipples. his long nipple just may push more BBs into the gun that are able to reach the tappet plate? This picture shows The original super long M14 springer magazine with its 40 round capacity. The 70 round shortened mid cap magazine (which sticks out an inch and a half from a modified M14 / M1 conversion and this latest attempt at a modified shorten clip. More to come later. The top and bottom halves are carefully aligned, the inner channels are checked for flashing which is razor removed and once the glue drys these channels have to be sanded well to insure the spring or BBs don't catch or snag. For tonight the clips I shortnened have been glued with ABS glue and tomorrow the saga will continue. Fingers are crossed that they will work and that they will feed more than the flush mounted shotgun mags. (they should) the rounded base does stick out but is barely noticeable and provides a handy pinch piece for quicker reloads. this bulge could be eliminated altogether but at the expense of clip BB capacity. I am witing to see if that is practical? Further detail on the present cut out design. Potentially more could be removed from the top by cutting the mag directly below the BB stop spring. This would eliminate the mag catch groove in the top rear but this could be redone lower in the cut. Removing more of the upper section would also eliminate all connecting screws which would necessitate a wrap of black gaphers tape which I would rather avoid. We'll see what capacity ends up looking like on the current plan? These springer M14 clips were on sale at Airsoft Megastore for $1.67 each although with shipping fees even buying over a dozen of them they ended up at around $3.00 each. This is still half what the stubby shotgun clips cost with their 9-12 round capacity. really hoping this project pans out. the shotgun mags are a good solution for the M1 conversions. I am hoping this will be a GREAT solution! 2nd Bat
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 3, 2015 1:40:57 GMT -5
With the ABS glue dry. (ABS glue serves as an adhesive and mild filler). I removed the rubber bands that provided tension and the two screws that held the halves together and seperated the sides. I used a sharp hobby knife to remove burrs and sanded until this channels were smooth and completely free of potential snags. I held the two haves in pace and reinserted the now shortened spring. On one of clips I cut down I shortened the spring by ix and a half inches while on the other I removed five inches. The springs are always a little tricky to reinsert but as indicated by Dracul really not too bad. You have to delicately split the halves at the feed point as you slide in the BB nipple past the Bb stop. (small horizontal tab with tiny spring at the BB hole).
Once in place I loaded both mags and checked for adequate spring tension. When working properly the spring pressure should be enough to squirt your BBs out of the magazine quite energetically when you pull back the BB stop. In this case both mags shot the BBs across the room. With this I reloaded inserting a many BBs as they would take. The longer spring took 15 BBs while the shorter spring took 16.
Even with the longer feed nipple you still drop 2 BBs with every reload and sometimes 3. That leaves these shortened mags feeding 12 to 14 BBs . A little disappointing but slightly better than the shotgun mags for half the cost. This modification is a bit more work than the shotgun magazines but provides one more alternative option. I will visually clean up the looks of the two prototypes, create a template to modify the other 16 magazines I bought and get some pictures posted of these final steps.
These four latest approaches (the shotgun mags, the short, 70 round mid caps, the modified 70 round mid caps and now this conversion of the cheap m14 springer magazines) are a far cry from the very first attempts I made at shortening Marui low caps 12 years ago, The very first modified magazines were expensive, enormously time consuming to build, loaded 11 rounds and usually only fed 5 or six rounds if they worked at all. They also stuck out of the base of the gun about an inch. I ruined as many of them as I was able to convert.
With the current sale on these cheap M14 springer mags at Airsoft Mega Store, even with shipping, an M1 conversion owner can build 10 clips that fit nicely in the Garand belt pouches and will provide about 120 to 140 ready rounds for your Garand. With a speed loader, more than enough to be competitive at a WW2 event. It continues to make a homebuilt M14 to M1 conversion viable even in the era of ICS and GnG M1 Garands.
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Post by insterburger on Apr 3, 2015 10:00:02 GMT -5
Personally, for the amount of work involved in the springer M14 mag conversions, the issues with the shotgun conversions, and the limitations and limited capacity of both, to my mind the short 70 round M14 magazines are the best bet. In each case it's a matter of tradeoffs, and the magazine protruding an extra inch or so seems like a small price to pay for vastly higher capacity and a drop-in solution with no extra work and no technical snags. The bumpout is something that few would notice in a combat situation, but I'm sure I'd notice fumbling trying to get a stuck magazine out while I'm under fire!
But opinions will differ, and certainly having a wide variety of options available allows every player to make up his own mind about what he values and what he's willing to pay for it. Keep the think tank going!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 3, 2015 12:01:27 GMT -5
For skirmishing (at this stage of our hobby) I agree that the 70 round mid caps are the way to go. they work flawlessly can be bought off the shelf and really don't look too distracting during gameplay. Reloading was such a critical part of close combat that there is a lot o be said for "keeping it real". Having said that the reality of airsoft is 80% of the time I have a player borrowing (or inexpensively renting) one of my guns and its tough enough getting this walk on familiar enough with the guns function and troubleshooting not to have to deal with frequent reloads. We have to remember our participants are not typically trained professional soldiers who have spent months training and homing their skills.
A long term goal for me is to set a standard of three BBs to every real bullet capacity a particular weapon had. A Garand would therefore have a 24 round capacity, a Kar 98 Springfield 15, a Thompson 60 rounds etc. This standard will probably never be established but I lways thought it would be cool. dome people ask why not go for a pure 1:1 ratio? The challenge of course is lack of penetration. Our medium for combat (airsoft) is alterred by brush and even the thinnest of walls and tiniest of trees. At longer ranges our BBs have so little enertia that a single hit often doesn't compute as a hit in the midst of the action. three quick shots in place of one helps narrow that gap without exit wounds!
I will keep fiddling with various magazine solutions. Its nice to have choices.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 3, 2015 21:28:41 GMT -5
I built some more today and decided on todays builds to add a little additional length. I added about 10mm of space and discovered this additional length provides another three round capacity. This works out to 17 or 18 rounds. The protrusion below the Garand is fairly innocuous and what I think I'll do is take sone of my past failed attempts at shortened mags and create insertable "plugs" that will supply the appropriate look between events or during admin time and photo sessions.
Added length makes the clips a little harder to get in and out of the Garand pouches but they still fit fine even with belts that still have the inner snaps in place. (These straps were universally disliked by GIs who usually removed them). I think I will finish off the rest of these cheap springer magazines using this additional length. Not sure cosmetically what (if anything) I am going to do to dress these clips up a bit. My son thinks the fake brass emmulating an enblock clip looks silly but on these springer clips this isn't possible anyway. brass paint on the portion that sits inside the gun does make them much easier to find on the ground so I may just pursue paint highlights like on the old shotgun mags.
These springer mods are much easier and quicker to load and unload than the shotgun mags and that along with a slightly higher capacity makes this approach worth considering. They do constitute quite a lot of time consuming work however. On parr with the shortened carbine mags IF you do the cosmetic finish work on the carbine clips.
I should do a video of each of these magazines in use. Loading and reloading etc.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 4, 2015 23:46:33 GMT -5
The process gets easier with each batch and my initial decision (thus far) is to go with the slightly longer length. I added height by making one of the cuts about 6mms below the upper screw points. initially I cut the mags immediately below the screw holes. For my lower section I left the length where it was. As with any mag shortening its all about the crispness of your cut. Care must of course be made to keep the cuts absolutely straight and precisely 90 degrees both across and down. After finishing 12 clips a Few of mine ended up tilted slightly at the cut. Not sure how as I mark my cuts with tape, check to insure they are level and use the tape as a cut guide. They look a little wonky but amazingly they work anyway!
To securely pop into place inside the converted M1, a small tab needs to be ABS glued to the top, front face of the magazine (like the shaped tab on the shotgun clips. inspite of the fact that there is aleady a channel groove in the back wall of the M4 springer magazine, a tiny tab just like on your M14 AEG mag has to be installed. I make both the front and rear tabs with tiny bits of ABS, glued to the modified clip. Without these tabs these springer clips easily fall out of the gun when jostled around.
Once sized and sanded properly the clips "click" into place nicely, remain nice and snug and are much, much, easier to load and reload than the shotgun clips. The slightly longer length is really no more obtrusive than the initial ones I made and the additional 2 or 3 rounds is nice. All of them feed 15 rounds now and in an emergency you can send off the last three if you turn the Garand upside down. (gravity feeds the rounds that would normally drop out.). For the sake of authenticity I would discourage such behavior but helps illustrate how these things work.
With spring fed magazines the gap between the BBs coming from the magazine pushing BBs up to the tappet plate inside the gun prevents those final few rounds from feeding and these BBs typically drop out when you reload. This is normal but in super low cap magazines where every BB counts its kind of frustrating. The functional 15 rounds though not ideal in my opinion are actually quite workable. The 32 rounds that the ICS Garand clip feeds is very nice with the 70 round mid caps frankly too mny ready rounds.
Nice to have so many choices!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 6, 2015 0:30:40 GMT -5
I converted half of the clips I bought and thus far am very pleased with their function. The shotgun clips took lots of practice and muscle memory to unload and load and these are as easy (perhaps even easier) than regular magazines. Like regular M14 magazines these have to be angled and then rocked into place. The small exposed rounded section lends itself nicely to the loading/ unloading process. Insert the clip untill you hear the swoosh of the BBs and just rock the clip until you hear the click. Bang, bang bang...15 -16 consistent fed rounds and reload.
Provided they hold up, I couldn't be happier. I'll ask Dracul to share pictures of the final detailed finishing steps should anyone wish to pursue these.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Apr 6, 2015 17:34:46 GMT -5
And here are the pics!
No effort here to finish these up cosmetically. They have simply been sanded. the front tabs of ABS have been glued into place and shaped. I will clean them up visually. Inserted in one of my Garands the protrusion is fairly inconspicuous (in my opinion) The rounded base sticks below but provides a nice finger grip for loads and unloads. These are the later longer cuts that hold 18 rounds (feed 15 or 16) Not finished up nicely (I will fill the hole in the base). note the small rear tab that I add. I am thus far quite happy with this set up. we'll see how they hold up. 2nd Bat
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Post by insterburger on Apr 6, 2015 18:19:01 GMT -5
Great work! They are not at all obtrusive.
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shiftysgarand
Corporal
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Post by shiftysgarand on Apr 6, 2015 18:53:06 GMT -5
They look great! They obviously are easy to spot in pictures, but I bet I wouldn't notice if they were in the Garand that was shooting at me.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 6, 2015 21:04:38 GMT -5
EXACTLY! For pictures, displays and stand around time I used the cut away sections of magazine and fabricated inert "plugs" that snap into place providing the correct, flush mounted look of a Garand. I should have used the day to cosmetically finished off these magazines I made but instead spent the day in my backyard blasting toy Krauts while field testing my clips.
Very pleased with their performance. no missfeeds (unusual for modified clips) and super smooth loads and reloads. The M14 has an odd spring activated nub at the front of the mag well area just in front of the feed nozzle and right near the hop up mechanism (which is housed at the top of the mag well). This slight pressure keeps your mag in position and is why the added tab up front helps so much. The magazines (both shotgun clipd and these springer clips) will feed without the tab but without the tab jostles around, missfeeds or causes the mag to fall out (even when clicked into place). The tab is easy enough to fabricate with tiny pieces of ABS plastic and both with the shotgun clips and these M14 Springer magazines hold up very well. Once glued in place I shape them with a dremel. i cut a tiny horizontal groove just below the top and tapered the tab below this cut. For the rear tab a small square of ABS is all that is needed. Use a regular M14 magazine to determone the size and location to attach.
If I were to make additional springer mag conversions I would make the upper main cut 9mms below the upper screws not six as I did with my most recent builds. in the mag well the tiny bit further the magazines would thus protrude would be fine and this tiny additional length will add 2 additional rounds to the capacity putting them at 20 rounds!
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Apr 26, 2015 15:45:15 GMT -5
From 2ndBat:
Here are the final finishing touches on the modified springer M14 clips. Cut down, reshaped a bit and painted to look more enblock like (and be easier to find onthe ground if they get dropped). These consistently load 18 to 20 rounds. The curved surface protrudes beneath the Garand stock base but are subtle and easy to load and reload. they slide snugly but easily in the Garand belt pouches. Cost to produce in mass was under $3.00 each! Here are all five of the solutions I have pursued. (I have attempted other approaches but these worked!). The most expensive but easiest and functionlly most sound are the unmodified MAG brand 70 round midcaps which cost roughly $15.00 each plus shipping. They protrude fairly pronouncedly beneath the Garand but not distractingly during game play. 70 rounds between reloads of course is unrealistic but for airsoft probably acceptable to most. The mag in front of it (second from the left) is an extensively modified MAG 70 rounder which has been shortened, reshaped and has had "halve cut" shells added for looks. these hold 28 rounds are a ton of work to make and require the expensive MAG mid cap as the base. Not a solution I plan to pursue even for my own purposes. Center is the Springer magazine as discussed above. Not a horribly difficult modification and based on a very inexpensive base magazine. You don't have to do the visual modifications that constituted most of the construction time. in the right rear is a basically modified 12 round shotgun clip with it painted brass and with ABS sidewalls added. These are fairly inexpensive and constitute the simplest modification job. The painting is of course optional. These fit flush in even the M14 conversions that don't have the added depth of the stock augmentation. (Early 2nd Bat type conversions) The clip in the foreground in this picture is an example of the shotty mag with some depth added and plastic cosmetic side shells added. These fill the augmented stocks nicely but are a lot of effort to build and provide only 12 (feedable) rounds per reload. too limiting for most players and a lot of work to produce. they fit very authentically in the cardboard inserts in the Garand belt and in my opinion look pretty cool. All of these require some practice loading and reloading in your Garand conversion as the M14 like an AK requires a rocking motion as you insert the clip and the short size (especially on the non lengthened shotty mags give you little grip space. I hope this tutorial helps you decide which solution is best for you. My preference is mixed between the M14 springer modifications and the 70 round commercially available MAG 70 rounders. Whatever you go with, get (or make) several, stick with just one style and practice your handling until function because effortless and without deliberate thought. Just like a true combat soldier muscle memory on something vital (like reloading) needs to be instinctual.
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