Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Mar 3, 2015 17:26:30 GMT -5
Yeah, mine wouldn't be spot on, like these bread bags, they would be for loaner purposes. May I ask where you got the patterns?
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Mar 3, 2015 20:34:41 GMT -5
Not sewing patterns, but the prints, for camo. Made em myself. Only stevie does the pre-war platanentarn, and at $300, not a go for most.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Mar 3, 2015 23:45:04 GMT -5
Update! After a night of work, I managed to get the front pieces and flaps prepped for assembly. I did an eye estimation of the size of the Kar98 cleaning kit pouch from pics of legit ones, but I think I made them too big. I feel that is better than making them too small, and not being able to fir the item the pouch was designed for. All I have to do from here is assemble the pieces together, add buttons and holes to the belt straps, and wait for the D-rings to come in. Which really isn't much work at all, even if I have to hand sew the top part. So, they should be mostly finished pretty soon.
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Post by luftwelle93 on Mar 3, 2015 23:55:06 GMT -5
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Mar 4, 2015 7:08:57 GMT -5
Thats looks pretty similar and it matches up with my eyed measurements. I made the pockets 3.5x6x1 inches. So, its a tad bigger length and width wise, but maybe fatter depth wise.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 4, 2015 23:27:28 GMT -5
There is a guy on ebay who from time to time offers assorted patterns of German camo material. assorted SS patterns and splinter. Extremely expensive as I recall but no doubt a very limited quantity run hence the high cost. Given what you can buy decently made smocks out of Asia and helmet covers it just didn 't pencil out
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Mar 5, 2015 0:40:06 GMT -5
Well, if the ATF HBT is $15/yd at 59x36 inches. 2.5 yards would be needed for one tunic (always get more fabric then what you need), and with the hardware needed, a single tunic could be made for about 35-40 bucks, and still have material left over. In case of screw ups or when you amass enough extra fabric, you can make another tunic out of it. 40 bucks isn't bad, really. Only if you don't mind doing the work yourself. This is turning into a pretty good idea. Back on topic, haha. Tonight I finished all that I could possibly finish with out the D-rings, and then some. Top: M31 and M40. Bottom: two M44's. Crafted up two bread bag straps while I was at it and had the material. Did what I can with what I had on this, they aren't perfect. TBH, from what I researched, I couldn't find a proper measurement. So, I made one 1in thick, and the other 1.25in thick. I think the thicker one looks more correct. I guest-imated 7 inches for the non-adjustable part, and a little over 50in for the entire adjustable part. Close up of the rifle cleaning kit pouch for one of the M44's. Close up of my M31's leather covered belt straps. I need to correct my stitching location for my next M31. Also, for this and my M40, I decided to reverse the button on the middle belt strap. While I don't and can't get the belt hooks, I think having just the image of a bare strap is a lot better then my prototype. Button is on the reverse side, so one can still take the bread bag on and off without taking off and messing with all the gear. I still have some ultra suede left, so I might make another breadbag strap and/or take Luftwelle93's suggestion and make a canteen cover for my E. German canteen (along with a custom sized canteen strap for it). Might be able to make more then one canteen cover, now that I think of it. Too bad I don't have enough to make just one more breadbag, haha. Next up is to fix up my patterns and keep on the look out for decent priced and good colored canvas. The wait for the D-rings, from Asia with no tracking number, begins.
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Post by luftwelle93 on Mar 5, 2015 1:23:25 GMT -5
They look awesome.I love how you made the straps too :)Be neat to see how the canteen covers go.Regular snaps are easy to find anyways for the cover.Hopefully your D-rings arrive soon,especially without a way to track it .
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Post by volkssturm on Mar 5, 2015 2:16:16 GMT -5
Those look great.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 5, 2015 2:43:02 GMT -5
Ultra Suede for the canteen covers probably will look pretty good although some shoe polish may be needed to alter the shade? The actual material looked to be a thick felt! Your workmanship is very impressive. We should work a swap for weapons stuff? Shortened magazines or perhaps an SMLE?
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Mar 5, 2015 8:39:17 GMT -5
Thanks everyone!
I don't know how well the ultra suede would take the shoe polish, or any sort of dye for that matter. Its a problem with synthetic material in general. The way its constructed, at the fiber level, is that it lacks holes and gaps and whatever else natural materials have that are able to take in and soak up dye. Hell, a decent amount of pen ink gets rubbed off just by my fingers. If the shoe polish is like paint, however, then it would hold, but be easily washed off though.
I'd love to swap with these! I'd definitely wouldn't mind building more up for a SMLE! Might take a bit, though. I have someone interested in buying one of these, and from that sell, I will buy more materials and better hardware to make another run. Repeat that cycle if necessary.
Rechecking my scraps, I found a decent sized piece of material left, allowing me to barely make one more. Not only can I still make one more, I think I can still have left over for another strap and canteen cover. Although, I can't make it have the E. German inner pocket. Probably going to make another M31 or M40. Going to get working on that today.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Mar 5, 2015 11:17:43 GMT -5
There is a guy on ebay who from time to time offers assorted patterns of German camo material. assorted SS patterns and splinter. Extremely expensive as I recall but no doubt a very limited quantity run hence the high cost. Given what you can buy decently made smocks out of Asia and helmet covers it just didn 't pencil out yeah it does. Maybe not for dirt cheap loaners, but for my purposes, it definitely does. try finding true planetree for under $300, other then totls's sketchy stuff.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Mar 5, 2015 11:18:55 GMT -5
Those breadbags look great, but you gotta find some canvas.
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Post by luftwelle93 on Mar 5, 2015 11:38:05 GMT -5
Is canvas cheap?
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Mar 5, 2015 18:19:58 GMT -5
Going to find out when I actually research where I can find some. I've been working on these bread bags pretty nonstop.
Speaking of which, I just finished up another M40. From start to "sans D-rings" finished. The scraps I had were barely big enough for the fit the pieces, so this one wasn't my best. Took me about 7 hours. That makes a total of 6 bread bags this run.
Also, going to use up what I have left to make another strap or two and maybe the E. German canteen cover. Night is still young.
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Post by luftwelle93 on Mar 5, 2015 18:34:30 GMT -5
Keep up the work Herr Dracul
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Mar 6, 2015 1:24:09 GMT -5
Tonight's update. AKA last update until the D-rings come in. I exhausted the last of my ultra suede. All I have left are small scraps that would only be good for patches. Manage to make one more bread bag, two more bread bag straps, and a E. German Canteen cover. The canteen cover looks...decent?..not really? It really needs to be a wool fabric. I also just BS'd it with some velcro instead of buttons. However, the E. German canteens do come with a canteen cup already and uses a screw on cap, I like these better than trying to mock up the Czech M60 canteens. I have a three of those, and two of those need new corks the moment I got them in. On top of that, you need to buy a canteen cup. Only thing I would need to do to convert an E. German canteen is to make a new cover, paint the cup black, and make the strap. Which is all pretty easy. When I do this next, I'll spring to get and install actual snaps. The "money shot" of all my work during the past week and a half. Six bread bags. Personal Prototype, one M31, two M40, two M44. Four bread bag straps and one canteen cover. Also! I have also scanned in the E. German canteen cover pattern I drew up from dismantling mine. You should be able to print it out 1:1 scale, but if you can't, I have it saved as a true 1:1 scale as a PDF file (should print out as such). I can't post the PDF here, but I'd gladly send it to anyone via e-mail. Try this with fabric you don't need first, so if the fitting doesn't work, you didn't waste the material that you need and you can make adjustments from there. If anything, I'd imagine only needing to add 2-3mm along the edges to make it fit, if thats the case. Please excuse my terrible handwriting, haha.
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Post by deadcat7382 on Mar 6, 2015 7:59:01 GMT -5
excellent work... I would buy and be happy with it.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Mar 28, 2015 0:33:11 GMT -5
Update with this. Finally got the D-rings in. Problem is, they are too small. Not going to bother returning these. I'm just going to buy elsewhere next time.
Sorry to those who are interested that this is taking this long for me to finish these.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 28, 2015 12:05:29 GMT -5
For your intended purposes everything looks great and the quality of your work is excellent. The right materials and your replicas would look perfect. I have noticed that the German pull over smocks have gone back up in price. I got several splinter pattern smocks for around $40.00 including shipping on ebay by patiently bidding all that they offered uber cheap. Most of course blew way past my bid but on those occassions where my competitors were all cheap like me I went ahead and got them. They now all seem to be in the vicinity of $65.00 and up by the time you get them.
If suitable material were on hand at low enough cost I would think a viable looking smock (under web gear) would be easier to make than these breadbags?
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Mar 28, 2015 15:16:27 GMT -5
Smocks are hard to make. Elastic and all that pizazz. Plus, double needle = hell, and folding seams with single needle would be tricky as hell. Fabric = expensive. You can get $50 smocks from hikishop and bingo.
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Post by insterburger on Mar 28, 2015 15:33:08 GMT -5
The cups on the East German canteens aren't right to the point where they're really on the fence in terms of appearance. From a distance, I guess OK, but they really are quite wrong.
I've been getting the Swedish canteens when they're cheap and the repro cups. The Swedish ones have a nice color, a decent metal twist cap, and a great belt hook that can be adapted to a leather canteen strap that can be made easily enough (though I just used up stock of a lot of about 8 almost-right repop or surplus canteen straps that I got on Ebay for about twelve bucks for the lot). The results of my conversions look really good except on very close scrutiny. You can see many of them in use in the photo thread for Nate's D-Day game from last year.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Mar 28, 2015 15:35:28 GMT -5
Thanks! The smocks are an idea, and might be something I'd try out down the line. However, the only Splinter material I found was here: www.spoonflower.com/fabric/1262420# I'd choose the cotton poplin material for something like, which is $20 a yard, and the cheapest material they can print on is $17.50. Point is, that is a bit more expensive than HBT material. Still much cheaper then wool! Also, smocks take up more fabric than tunics do. On topic of which one is easier. I don't think there is a harder thing to make. Sure making a smock for the first time, with a legit one for reference or not, might be challenging. But the breadbags were the same. First time there will be challenge, but after that, it would be easier. I'd have to say that breadbags are much easier to make, since the patterns and pieces are much smaller and its faster to make. Even though a smock is a simple garment, its still would take about the same amount of time to make a blouse. EDIT: LSSAH: The fabric isn't that bad, and doing the elastic thing is alright. I've worked plenty with elastic in the past, but if anything, that much elastic would jack up the cost. Unless I find it bulk somewhere. Insterburger: Thanks for the suggestion for the Swedish canteens. I'll be looking into them.
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Post by insterburger on Mar 28, 2015 15:49:04 GMT -5
Thanks, Drac. Here's a pic from that thread that shows my canteens to good effect... I'd be surprised if you could discern which are repops and which are converted swedes.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 28, 2015 15:55:32 GMT -5
Interesting link to the assorted camo fabrics. Considering they are reversible and the amount of work that goes into the elastic. Lace holes, reinforcements, pockets, details etc. The price from China on smocks is prett cheap. its a killer though when you're trying to equip and cloth a dozen plus guys!
insterberger, The group shot looks awesome. I love the mix of camo and wool. Covered and uncovered helmets and field caps, jack boots and leggings. i have to say the Y straps are a critical part of the look and I have a ways to go there. The gas mask conisters and mess tins are also an iconic component supporting the effect.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Mar 28, 2015 16:09:08 GMT -5
2nd Bat: Given what the site is, I really don't think the fabric is reversible, which could be considered a big downside. The site is a fancy site, that allows users to upload designs (anything, not just camo patterns), and the company will then screenprint the design onto the fabric and ship it out to you. Some one uploaded most of the camo patterns that exist.
Off topic, but this means I can at least get fabric in Soviet TTsKO Mountain and make the uniform that I've been trying to find for years!
Insterburger: Those look great!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 28, 2015 16:15:50 GMT -5
Indeed I realized that fabric ordered from Spoonflower would not be reversable. To have truly appropriate fabric I imagine one would have to go to some of the more expensive materials, The marsh and tan is cool looking but as I understand it is an overused pattern in the reenactor community. the simple splinter pattern quickly just turns into OD at even fairly short range.
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Post by insterburger on Mar 28, 2015 18:20:27 GMT -5
2nd Bat-- I have always relied on either repros or postwar Austrian y-straps, I have a mix of both for my own and loaner kits. Some repros (including one set I have) are pretty awful, some are excellent). I know some people have a spilkes over the Austrian ones, but for my money they are quite close enough in appearance, sturdy, and the padding on the shoulders, while not authentic, is always appreciated over a long day in the field. For Fallschirmjaeger, the postwar BGS ones are great, and I made nifty officer's straps by turning the BGS ones inside out for a brown finish.
I always thought that a potential for decent enough ultra-cheap y-strap would be to take some of the East German nylon web straps, remove or mask the hardware, and spray with the black rubberizing spray paint that is available these days. While the feel wouldn't be there, from a distance they would probably look OK, and the per-unit cost would probably be under five bucks. Just a thought.
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Post by luftwelle93 on Mar 28, 2015 20:42:32 GMT -5
Excellent work.I wouldn't worry too much about the East German cup as it looks slightly similar to the bakelite cups seen on the coconut style canteens.Very well done!
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Dracul
Master sergeant
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Post by Dracul on Mar 28, 2015 21:31:09 GMT -5
Insterburger: For the gray E German suspenders, I was going to try bleaching them, and then dying them tan to make them look like the DAK suspenders.
2nd Bat: Personally, I'd be fine with a one sided print of Splinter. In all honesty, one sided Splinter from Spoonflower is the only place that I've found any Splinter by the yard. So, there isn't much choice elsewise. All the bigger names, ATF, Hessen Antique, etc, only carry SS patterns. Which costs just as much as wool! Another possible alternative is the Italian Telo Mimetico, Hessen Antique does have it for $15 a yard. They claim that Germans used it, but I don't know by which branches and if it was seen anywhere outside of the Italian area.
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