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Post by j0dance on Apr 13, 2015 14:53:45 GMT -5
Whatcha guys, My friends and I are looking at getting into WW2, (based in the UK) possibly playing US Armoured Recon. I have been pouring over these forums, and the UK counterparts for almost 2 weeks now. My biggest question is regarding guns, specifically Thompsons/M1 Garands/Carbines. Since scouring through near enough 60 separate threads, on here, and the UK forums lots of new guns have been released.... so some threads have become irrelevant Ideally I would love to get an M1, (for para/infantry loud outs) - but I can't seem to find a definitive make/model. likewise for the Thompson, which I will probably go with, as it's makes for quite a basic starter gun, and appears easier to get hold of, imho I can't find any comparison reviews between the separate guns. So i'm going to include a list of the guns (of which I know) - if anyone has any to add, please let me know, likewise with advice, and urgently some reviews and comparisons between makes and models of guns, that would be fab! Which one should I get? King Arms M1A1 King Arms M1928 King Arms M1921 (supposedly) CYMA M1A1 CYMA M1928 Cybergun M1A1 Cybergun M1928 (EBB?) Tokyo Marui M1A1 YET TO BE RELEASED: (included for prosperity) Ares Thompsons (June 2015) King Arms GBB (sometime this year) M1's - for prosperity (i'm dying for an ICS/GnG review) ICS M1 Garand GnG M1 Garand Marushin M1 Carbine Also, if anyone is UK based, which is doubtful on here, and has any of the aforementioned guns, I'd love to try them out. PS: I should mention, I'm looking for real wood in place of the plastic, but I can add that later, I also want the front hand-guard, as well as the pistol grip. So I can do 1920's/30's LARPs. Which ever is easiest, whether by starting with/or adding the grip or the guard.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Apr 13, 2015 15:24:20 GMT -5
ics m1 is out and the g&g can be bought at www.combatsportsupply.com/gngm1garandstockaeg.aspxthese guys in england got your ics right here(it has been out for i think over 2 years now) www.airsoftworld.net/ics-m1-garand.htmlI wouldn't count on ARES making anymore ww2 guns, after their m3a1 debacle they seem to have abandoned the line. King arms is bleh and not in any rush so who knows. The marushun m1 carbine was nice but even the newest co2 ones would break quickly. king arms aeg's seem to be good enough at a fair fps. wood kits can be found occasionally. cyma is similar cybergun is basically the same tokyo marui is expensive and lower fps but supposed to have good internals i believe. Paratroopers also used m1 garands
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 13, 2015 16:18:54 GMT -5
The GnG Garand is visually more correct (shape, demensions etc.). its quite new and still not terribly available. As yet spare clips have not been released and with just a 20 round clip makes it non skirmishable at this point. Its also too new to see any long term use reports. The ICS is very very good inspite of some of the shape infidelities. It has been extremely durable (at least mine has)and is a very hard, straight shooter as it should be being a Garand.
The Thompson are all on a very equal parr provided you insure you buy one with a metal gear box. The super inexpensive AEGs are best to avoid unless you want the realism of decidedly less range and power than rifles!
The carbine GBBs should be avoided (in my opinion) as should any gas blow back as they just aren't proving to be robust and reliable enough for skirmishing. The inexpensive WELL carbine AEG is quite off with regard to shape and magazine size and has a number of cosmetic tweaks needed just get it up to deplorable looking but it is semi auto. The power is on parr with the plastic gearbox thompsons so actually fine if you WANT rifles to be at a range an accuracy advantage.
the very inexpensive CYMA, UKARMS carbine (actually an M2) inspite of being a springer is actually very good if you're okay with having to cock it each time. A great back up/ extra gun.
The AEG Grease guns are all good although I'd avoid the one with the battery mounted in the magazine. The Hudson Gas Blow Back should you find one should be avoided entirely.
I built a little over 400 M14 to M1 conversions and this concept has been copied by a wide number of both private individuals and companies. Shoot n Scoot in the UK offers them and does a nice job on theirs. If you find a well made one used it might provide an opportunity for an affordable "Garand".
Good luck in your search for the right weapon and welcome to ww2 airsoft. Let the addiction commence!
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Post by j0dance on Apr 13, 2015 18:31:05 GMT -5
I have been scouring the internet for anyone that thoroughly compares the ICS/G&G, Probably because the GnG is so new. I've been following 2nd Bat's posts on here, about the m14 conversions, and was about 3 clicks away from ordering an m14 to make my own, when I thought "armour and leather working, I have mastered, airsoft gunsmithing?....hmmmm not so much" I thought that myself, got an email this morning, which reads: "...We estimated the goods will be released after June 2015. Thanks in advance! ...With the best regards, Gigi" whether this is conclusive enough, I know not, I'm not 'au fait' with the machinations of airsoft manufacturers. Gas Powered seems big and clever, yet also very self-destructive. I found a guide that said "if you find a marushin, buy it". My issue is all my mates telling about 'how unreliable gas is in english weather' which is a shame, as I would LOVE to have a sniper rifle, or at least a Designated Marksman Rifle. thus I was thinking an M14-M1, or just an M1 (not sure which would prove a superior gun). Which in turn lead me to consider the G&G Springfield, but I will probably start with a Thompson for the time being, as they are slightly more versatile for my personal needs, with specific regards to other systems, events and larps I could use one for. so... they are all about the same. But TM is more money, for lower FPS but better internals? I get the impression the KA/TM are more mailable, with regards to upgrades. I assume because they have been out for so long, and aren't "clones"? thanks for your feedback, helps a lot
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 13, 2015 18:50:00 GMT -5
The ONLY reason I should think someone would say. "If you can find a Marushin airsoft gun, buy it.". Is because they are rare and seldom in stock. Their production is limited BECAUSE THEY SUCK! They might end up collectible as they do make great wall hangers and once broken they end up in a scrap heap or like mine turned into inert props. Ultimately finding working, fully operational ones will be rare although the ones located will no doubt still be in their box as the sad reality is if they were actually used they would have broken.
the gas operated bolt action rifles have proven to be better with regard to longevity but also have been frought with niggling challenges so my advice is steer clear unless you have numerous guns and are willing and interested in expanding your collection.
The most affordable and functional choice, sadly is any of the multitude of AEG Thompsons which explains why they reman by far the most over abundant WW2 weapon being fielded. It would be hard to go wrong with any of the assorted clones provided you stay away from the uber cheap plastic gear box versions. the only chronic concern on Thompsons is their legendary failure at the barrel/ receiver group which frequently fracture with the use of a sling. Even this problem is easily mended with no ill effects.
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Post by j0dance on Apr 13, 2015 19:10:05 GMT -5
2nd Bat, Firstly; I was sort of hoping you'd comment, out of all of the threads, you seem to have such a wealth of knowledge, plus your m14's look brilliant! The GnG Garand is visually more correct (shape, demensions etc.). its quite new and still not terribly available. As yet spare clips have not been released and with just a 20 round clip makes it non skirmishable at this point. Its also too new to see any long term use reports. The ICS is very very good inspite of some of the shape infidelities. It has been extremely durable (at least mine has)and is a very hard, straight shooter as it should be being a Garand. Okay, that's cool. So the lack of comparative reviews, is due to time. Makes sense. I've seen on a number of other posts, with people complaining about the ICS having some minor issues, nothing in particular I can recall; other than the occasional lemon, and parts being difficult to upgrade (if I wanted to tweak it for DMR/Sniping) lol! I have a friend of a friend who is selling a CYMA M1A1, the version featured HEREalso, found a quite in depth, acommpanying review for the aforementioned gun, which i'll link for posterity, yet to read it, mind. HEREIs the reliability issues to do with the blowback action? Also, with regards to the WELL, I assume you mean their "M1 Carbine" - it looks utter toss, video reviews suggest it would be more accurate to throw it at the enemy! They do look good, but cocking after every shot makes me want to cry, especially in a MilSim enviroment, where the conflicts will be an amalgamation of skirmish/cqb and long range. Unless ofcourse I was sniping, where I'd like to hope I would pick my battles better, to allow for bolt actioning. or in a DMR scenario, where I have the option of switching to semi. Yeah all my mates are looking at Grease guns, they don't appeal to me. Unless I did a Phillipino Spec-Ops Impression. 400!? ee gads! I followed your posts, but that's a lot more than I expected haha! I was contemplating doing a conversion myself, but unlike LARP and Re-enactment, where I know what i'm doing and have A LOT of kit. WIth Airsoft, I want to be wise and frugal with my money. Especially for WW2. That reminds me!!! - it appears NO-ONE has used the ShootNScoot site... or if so, I can't seem to find a review of their kits anywhere? Do you have experience with them, 2nd Bat? - or indeed, anyone reading this. I do love converting and tinkering, gives me something to do, and offers the chances to really get to know the internals of a gun. Plus, who doesn't love the chance to say "I made this"? Only thing is, are they any good? Good luck in your search for the right weapon and welcome to ww2 airsoft. Let the addiction commence! Cheers matey, I'm sure finding the right gun will be a short while off yet, and I look forwards to your advice. If this ends up anything like my other hobbies, I'll end up with more guns than I know what to do with...
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Post by j0dance on Apr 13, 2015 19:18:32 GMT -5
@2nd Bat:
So, no Gas. No Marushin's...
I'd LOVE an M1, probably a Carbine for now, but I don't see why I wouldn't end up with a Garand as well, and probably a para-stock when I get round to it. Hell, I'd love a Browning while i think about it, too! haha.
Although I would also prefer an M1 (i'm a stickler for realism in costumes (kit-nazi)) it unfortunately doesn't seem THAT viable. I'll have a look at some sights for prices, and see how many mags I would end up needing. I'm determined to look accurate....
Unless, I lump for a Thompson in the time-being and I just say I'm a higher ranking para. or a tanker... or just a British Commando. poor excuse, I know.
I'm still trying to split the wheat from the chaff in terms of Thompsons... And whether a £100 CYMA is a worthwhile deal.
My other main concern is the barrel breakage. I assume this happens to all models? I come from a family of machine/tool/aerospace engineers, so i'd like to think one of them could knock up some form of bracket to fix the barrel.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 13, 2015 19:37:21 GMT -5
The ICS Garand is an extremely hard shooter right out of the box. Even after 10,000 plus rounds through mine. (I shoot it a lot) it still chronos at 380plus FPS with .20 gram. There would be no need in the UK to uptick it for a rifleman/ marksman role. Upgrades usually result in epic fails and generally produce challenges later on in the life of an airsoft AEG. i am an advocate of leaving things alone. Its possible I suppose that airsoft guns shipped to the UK market ship with a lower out of the box FPS due to your restrictions. There is a thread here on how I tweaked and enhanced the appearance on my ICS Garand and unless held side by side with an actual Garrand it is quite convincing.
The barrel challenge on thompsons is chronic to all. This is testimony to how lock step the Chinese are at cloning other peoples efforts. the cheap springer carbines would not suffice in traditional skirmish play and are really suitable for leaders, support weapns guys and as spare hand out guns. (which are quite handy to have at events). They do not shoot hard enough to offset their low rate of fire but certainly hard enough to get some eliminations. For the money they can't be beat. Provided some attention to details they make great props and additions to an armory.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Apr 13, 2015 20:57:23 GMT -5
I forgot about shoot and scoot. I believe their kits are cool, just expensive and even more so when you do GBP to USD which may be why they aren't as talked about on US forums but I would think British/UK forums would talk about them more. Are you having trouble finding reviews for the ICS, is that what you are asking or a comparison between ICS and G&G?
Technically, gbb's aren't bad if maintained but with the exception of most pistols for ww2 airsoft, the rifles are trash because the company that makes them do a terrible job.
Also, depending on where you live, gbb's may only be useful for a few months out of the year.Luckily I live florida but anyways =P
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Apr 13, 2015 21:36:11 GMT -5
If you go for any Thompson, I really suggest staying away from Cyma and Cyberguns' Thompsons. Do your best to find a Marui or King Arms. Not suggesting that they make incredibly bad Thompsons, but the other the King Arms and Marui ones are damned near magical. Marui will be harder and more expensive to find, but even with low FPS, the accuracy is legendary. You will not be disappointed with a King Arms Thompson. Its been my most reliable airsoft gun I have ever owned. Never let me down, even in -7 F degree weather! There aren't enough words to describe how I feel about the King Arms' Thompsons, haha.
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Post by j0dance on Apr 13, 2015 21:40:28 GMT -5
Brill, cheers both!! Helps a LOT. Britains quite crap, famously so, for it's weather, and as much as I love the look of the new GBB Thompson, the combination of gas/it probably never getting built is a deciding factor, lol. The ICS garand does tempt me, and stuka, I'm looking for comparison reviews; pros v cons, that I could read through, turn into a definitive list and base my decision on that, it sounds incredibly tedious. But I have, in the past, collated numerous reviews, turned them into a list of checkpoints and seen how often an issue arises, to discern whether it is standard fault, or a random occurrence... Usually that is with quite broader topics, such as tents, armour manufacturers and war hammer armies haha. But, it would give me similar information I could share on, thus is the issue with being such a niche market, I think finding a review I can relate to, with enough information to base spending ££££ on, is going to be hard to come by. Other than Those mentioned; am I missing any M1 Carbine manufacturers? Also, re: British fps limits. THe events I'm likely to partake in, allow "snipers" up to 500fps outside 50ft, "marksman rifles" for arguments sake, the M1's can go to 400fps I think, whereas the aeg's are limited at 350. Because of ammo preservation over a weekend, no-one will (or is allowed) to fully auto, unless in-game mechanics.... Support gun, given the order "fire fire fire"... Etc. The urge to get an M1 garand, Thompson and a GBB m1911 is unruly, but that might be the paycheck talking! I'm still undecided on Thompsons, lol.
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Post by j0dance on Apr 13, 2015 21:45:49 GMT -5
Dracul, great... I'm making headway! I saw somewhere, a post saying that the plastic King Arms where applesauce , is this true? Is there anything different other than wood/plastic going on there? Also, what makes the KA, and to a lesser extent, the TM so good? I assume superior internals? There is a thread on here about a Thompson over-feeding? I'll try and find it, csn't remember the make/model, but it appears the TM/KA don't suffer from design flaws? Or at least not as obviously as the clones, apart from snapping in half of course, I'd say that's somewhat of a glaring oversight!
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Apr 13, 2015 22:18:30 GMT -5
Yes, its true that the King Arms and even Marui "wood" is plastic, and it will start to creak over time. However, I haven't my KA one break, at all. Its all really solid.
For the Marui, they have the most superior internals. Hell, they are the ones that designed the original. Their internals and externals are plastic (if luckier, you can find wood and metal body kits for them). However, don't let any of that fool you. Unmodified, an electric Marui, will last you forever. All of their internals are so damned precise. They make due with the Japanese FPS restrictions by making the best hopups out there, super accurate. Its hard for the Chinese clones to replicate such precision.
The King Arms, they have the most superior externals. Full metal body is great. Internals, while not Marui good, are the best that Chinese (or in this case, Hong Kong) companies can make. King Arms is right up there with G&P and such. They have high FPS, accurate, great trigger response (even with the stock 8.4v battery), and the stock battery will last you all day.
Over feeding is something I can only imagine possible with hicaps mags when you wind them too much. You won't have problems with the mid caps. Which King Arms make the best Thompson mid caps, anyway. Marui mags are probably better, but the price wouldn't justify it.
On the last note, you won't have to worry about it snapping if you don't sling the Thompson too much. Pretty simple, jah?
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Post by j0dance on Apr 14, 2015 6:44:43 GMT -5
Brilliant, thanks for great info! any recommendations between the M1A1 or M1928? ideally I would like to take the buttstock off, as featured in this thread HERE but that won't happen until I know what I'm doing. He says, Re the M1A1 bodies; "I t can only be done with a proper, full-width 1928 receiver. There's not enough room in M1A1 receivers, or what Cyma, King Arms, etc. are calling M1928s (because they "dress up" an M1A1 as a 1928)."So this may impact my choice, and I've contacted him directly... in the meantime, I guess I need to pick between the different models, and find wood kits to go with each. I predict the availability of wood kits may decide the gun for me! again, than,s for all the help guys. It's fantastic!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 14, 2015 20:39:42 GMT -5
The thompson wood kit from any source would fit any of the aeg thompsons as they are all marui clones. Typically the wood kits from asia use cheap ash with bad finishes. Often kind of an orange shade. This flaw is an easy fix and artificial aging and refinishing wood is actually kind of fun. The thompson stock of course houses the battery. Even a proper 1928 receiver (which is going to price your gun way beyond a garand aeg). This will leave you forced to use a tiny battery.
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 14, 2015 21:39:07 GMT -5
I've had the TM and Cybergun Thompsons. Both had the barrels break off in front of the receiver. I recently did a swap for a King Arms Thompson. The guy packaged it poorly and it was damaged a little in the mail. It arrived with the barrel intact, but a couple weeks later it broke in front of the receiver. Seems to be inevitable. Fortunately you can make an insert from electrical conduit that will fix it. I think there's an old tread here about it.
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