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Post by hunterj on Nov 2, 2018 8:34:40 GMT -5
My bad norseman I see how I worded my statement, I was NOT implying you were dividing! Merely I went off on a tangent that was unrelated. Just something I think helps the hobby, when we work together to create events. I worded that previous comment poorly, did not mean it like that. Yeah my events have a very high degree of authenticity for sure, since the majority are blank fire reenactors as well and we are looking to host 3 day full immersion style events. If WWII Airsoft is too mainstream for you haha, I guess cowboy airsoft is the way to go. That definitely sounds like an incredible event norseman, I have not heard of those ones before! I used to be a part of the Operation Eastwind ~9 day long full immersion events that were incredible and levels of detail similar to that with news broadcasts about world events and papers/letters and whatnot. It was insanely detailed and amazing, and it's something i'm trying to work towards with my WWII Events. Best of luck with your cowboy airsoft, and thank you for the wishes. I definitely agree in that I need to get a photographer for both sides, we only had ~40 photos from the last event which while was enough to show people what we were doing, they were all taken by me primarily so it was only from the italian perspective.
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Post by norseman on Nov 2, 2018 17:18:25 GMT -5
My bad norseman I see how I worded my statement, I was NOT implying you were dividing! Merely I went off on a tangent that was unrelated. Just something I think helps the hobby, when we work together to create events. I worded that previous comment poorly, did not mean it like that. Yeah my events have a very high degree of authenticity for sure, since the majority are blank fire reenactors as well and we are looking to host 3 day full immersion style events. If WWII Airsoft is too mainstream for you haha, I guess cowboy airsoft is the way to go. That definitely sounds like an incredible event norseman , I have not heard of those ones before! I used to be a part of the Operation Eastwind ~9 day long full immersion events that were incredible and levels of detail similar to that with news broadcasts about world events and papers/letters and whatnot. It was insanely detailed and amazing, and it's something i'm trying to work towards with my WWII Events. Best of luck with your cowboy airsoft, and thank you for the wishes. I definitely agree in that I need to get a photographer for both sides, we only had ~40 photos from the last event which while was enough to show people what we were doing, they were all taken by me primarily so it was only from the italian perspective. No worries! I love authenticity and immersion! I had heard of Eastwind before! Never was able to go....very cool! Crazy ridiculous authenticity! I also always wanted to go to GAP too. And the warbird hangar dance with the WW2 veterans..... amazing stuff. Its gone now too. I will make it to End of Trail at Founders Ranch in New Mexico! Its in no danger of going anywhere.
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 12, 2019 14:28:42 GMT -5
But anyway, where is everyone? Is WWII airsoft dying out? There doesn't seem to be anything happening in NorCal.
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Post by norseman on Apr 12, 2019 21:37:50 GMT -5
Elias’s group I believe is still meeting every month. (North Idaho)
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 12, 2019 22:29:55 GMT -5
There's a WWII Airsoft California Facebook group, but there hasn't really been any activity on it for nearly a year, except for Hunter's Gothic Line event (out of state).
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Apr 13, 2019 0:27:30 GMT -5
I think it can be a few reasons.
Forums like these are have been slowly dying because FB groups are easier and faster for quick questions, but everyone has to have their "own" so things seem pretty fragmented. Versus an all in one group like this
Also, and probably more prominent, is that only in a few years time, we started to get access to cheap and skirmishable main rifles and uniform and gear. A lot of discussion we've had about modding post-war uniforms, or other guns, making homemade gear and uniform, even down to how can we equip people en masse with loaner gear, doesn't seem necessary anymore. With the 1903 and 2 AEG Garands out, we no longer really need to make them out of M14s. I'm sure there are still some of use who prefer that method, and by no means is anything wrong with that, the normal Joe won't see a reason for it. Same with the 1903 thats out, and any of the new offerings. Point is, I think a lot of the discussion we had were of all the homemade stuff, with store bought now being the common, we just lose all that discussion.
Truthfully, I don't know if we got bigger or even smaller. Only thing I know is that it seems we got smaller because of the lost discussion.
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Post by hunterj on Apr 13, 2019 1:53:55 GMT -5
Dracul is completely right about forums and the seemingly lack of discussion. For starters, the age of forums seems to be gone. All of those huge reenactor forums, gaming forums, airsoft forums. They have all moved to Facebook Groups, subreddits, or discords. Times change and that just seemed to happen. The big pro of forums, being able to easily organize topics and find things is apparently outweighed by the convinience of how fast social media sites like facebook and reddit are to reply/post/see things. Oh well, this site has so much great information of past builds and such it is still great. I can't speak for the other US regions, but I know in the Midwest we are growing, and growing at a good rate. My 3-day, high authenticity MILSIM events have grown and continue to grow and garner some interest with a lot of out-of-state guys making the drive/flight to it. The availability of WWII airsoft guns is better than it ever has been, and that is getting more guys into the hobby. I think the issue is always finding all of the WWII airsofters and having a few core events everyone can plan on going to. That's the approach i'm taking to help build the hobby, host 2 of the 3-day events a year. Moving one in the spring and one in the fall each year so people can plan and look forward to those events. @volkssturm I have noticed some WWII airsoft facebook groups really slowing down, and some picking up. I truthfully think that I am a member of every US WWII Airsoft facebook group at this point, not that that is a good thing haha, but I have noticed the California scene seemed to have died down after that partial WWII event MSW did. The guys up in NE USA seem to do quite a few, and the Michigan guys go to a lot of open plays. But overall I think the hobby has grown, maybe a lack of events but there are more people with WWII airsoft guns/equipment. I know that I keep repeating myself, but I think a few serious multi day events a year could really help revitalize our hobby. It gives people something to look forward to, something to plan for, and something to build/get things for. I know for my group there are lots of talks among the sides for making/acquiring big unit things like big tents or radios and such. We do have armored vehicles come out and participate, I myself have recently gotten a BA64B armored car I use as German Ordungspolizei near the Gothic Line to make sure it fits my theme of my events. My first event we had ~20, last one we had ~38. So it's growing, and I am confident it'll grow some more before kind of leveling out. But I've got some momentum with this i think, and the ~400 acres gives a lot of room to do stuff. Whatever direction we take, whether it be the same as a whole or several people doing different things. I do think it's important for some of the key players in the WWII Airsoft group like all of you to keep talking and figuring out ways to improve events. I know for example, for my last event, 2nd Bat was kind enough to mail some loaner US uniforms to some people so they could come out and participate and I was/am very grateful for that and it helped.
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Post by norseman on Apr 13, 2019 2:03:08 GMT -5
Just checked the Vietnam Airsoft forums and it’s dead as well. www.vietnam-airsoft.com/phpBB3/index.phpI personally think the reenactor aspect of airsoft is dying in the US. Speed soft is growing. Red M4’s with box magazines and insane ROF. Very unfortunate. Ballahack airsoft is having a Wild West themed game. We shall see....
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 15, 2019 2:13:04 GMT -5
The key is to hold events and not cancel. The hobby has to grow through momentum. Loaner gear that is not objectionably bad helps early adopters decide if its something they want to do. Seeing te potential to attend 3 or 4 quality events a year provides confidence that investin g in the gear is n ot going to be wasted.
A midern scratch game requires little in the way of thought preperatio or organization. Living history emmersi on requires far more gifted and dedicated sponsors. It is the courageous s ponsors that we lack. The reasons for that are legion. It is enormous work, full of risk and all too often underappreciated if not outright derided. Getting folks to commit and stick with what they said. Getting folks to show up on time and prepared and keeping all the pieces flowing through a weekend where weather and othe r unanticipated factors can dramatically alter even the besf laid plans and coordunating with land owners, fields and in some casez insurance, rules, gameplay and scenarios. Its a lot to ask. Thankfully there are a few people who tackle it.
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Post by hunterj on Apr 16, 2019 11:16:52 GMT -5
I agree, momentum is a huge factor. I'm trying to capitalize on that with my group now. We are pulling a solid mix of Blank Fire Reenactors and Airsofters into the event, with the high authenticity/full immersion aspects of it.
The Gothic Line Series events have been years in the making, and I'm finally able to consistently host games there. The insurance for the field took a year almost.
The next Gothic Line event will be November 8 - 10. Going to get all the details up ASAP so everyone can begin planning in my region.
I have debated with sponsors, and some have asked me. But I declined. I am not sure if my company/airsoft events would really benefit from them overall. But I will give it some more thought in the future.
I will post my rulesets and authenticity guides on here at some point, I realize not everyone in this forum has a facebook to see what all is said/done in my group. Though this forum was certainly what got me motivated to expand WWII airsoft where I am at, and to tackle all of the Italian weapon builds that I have done.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 16, 2019 20:24:40 GMT -5
Items like mail call, chow lines, period music, good mission ops with role players and sound effects, period signage etc all add a lot and differentiates period games from weekend skirmishes. These all take time, dedication and a place to store it all. Sgt Diez up in Vermont is accumulating vehicles, tentage, field stoves, comms and oodles of props for use on his 200 acres of woods, hills and trails. His primary focus is Vietnam but I am going to be loading him up w WW2 stuff so he can expand to that period as well.
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Post by bloodandguts5150 on Apr 17, 2019 8:41:41 GMT -5
I’m gonna throw my two cents in here.. I think the biggest part is the overall cost. Many people don’t want to spend the money on uniforms and gear, plus the weapon and extra mags. The weapons of WWII aren’t at all modular like the M16/M4. A lot of guys I’ve played with over the years have been active duty Marines and a few Army that already have the unis and gear, they’re familiar with the M16/M4 platform and that’s what they run. I’ve also played with a lot that will spend the money on a gun and run with the cheapest gear they can find. Sure, they all comment on how cool my loadout is, but when you start talking $ they’re not at all interested.
Hunter, I’m going to pick on you for a bit. I’m not at all against the immersive 3 day weekends. I think those are great. But.... I think you’re not going to help the community grow by keeping the strict standards you have if you require that for each event. I get it, but there’ll be a lot of people turned off by that. I’m not at all saying you should never host anything like that, but to grow our part of the community we need groups that are willing to take in new people that don’t have all the right stuff and help them out. There’s plenty of kids out there that would love to play WWII airsoft but don’t know where to start. Turning them away because they’re not up to standard could really hurt our part of the community. I’m kind of in that boat myself, I would love to make the drive out to your field to play. But all I’ve got is USMC gear. Do you have enough loaner gear that it would be worth my time to make a trip? I’m not in the market for any Army gear, I still have a lot of USMC stuff I need/want to actually complete my set-up to cover the whole war. You have a big field and could garner a lot of interest for our niche if you let it happen. And no, I’m not saying let a bunch of kids run around in a steel pot and blue jeans carrying an M1 rifle and call it acceptable to get people interested. I can honestly say that if the Michigan PTO group had such high standards required, maybe two of us would pass muster. And it’s like pulling teeth getting anybody out there.
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Post by hunterj on Apr 17, 2019 10:29:17 GMT -5
2nd Bat I agree all of those things definitely help and I look forward to seeing how his WWII event goes. bloodandguts5150 I agree cost is always a huge factor, you can't just go to the local army surplus and graba BDU top and bottom for next to nothing and call it good. It used to be both cost and availability of replicas, but at least we got one of those somewhat fixed. I truly enjoy hearing others thoughts on my event, and encourage it. I am definitely taking an uncommon approach for recruitment/event building. Both approaches have their share of pros and cons. An issue with the super loose requirements single day events, is it really limits it only to local guys since not many want to make long drives for a one day thing. This is an issue as my field/farm/land is in the middle of nowhere Kansas and I don't have a local base. My next, and biggest issue, is that too many get just a couple items, call it "WWII" and never improve upon it. Now, obviously this approach has it's fair share of pros. You get tons of people coming in and out, trying it out to see if they like it. It's casual and doesn't require much committment. It's more cost friendly since the requirements are so low. My approach, with the high authenticity full immersion multi day event, has it's own pros and cons. I primarily picked this because I myself love the high authenticity immersion stuff, and have not seen events like it for WWII. I also do blank fire and airsoft. Both with their own pros/cons. I 100% agree with you bloodandguts5150 . It excludes a lot of people who don't have full kits, or don't want to get full kits, or those that do not enjoy 3 days sleeping in a trench. I'm aware of that, but it is unfortunately neccessary to make a full immersion style event. However, it does actually recruit more new WWII guys than one might think. I have several of the big airsoft MILSIM groups go out and get full kits to come, but you're also missing out on a HUGE untapped market of potential. WWII Blank Fire guys. Now most turn down their noses to WWII airsoft because they think it is too often farb and incorrect, because they only see pictures of the single day WWII "themed" events. I get that from them, since Blank Fire guys are so nitpicky and generally, not always, are fairly authentic. So, I am making an event like this to coincide with the "WWII Campaigner" events that are popping up. This pulls a LOT of blank fire guys into my airsoft events, because they love the full immersion events and i've got the field (~400 acres) and armored vehicles and road signs and everything on it. Blank Fire guys almost always want come out when there is low authenticity, and they bring a lot to the table in terms of big equipment like radios, large period tents, vehicles, etc. Again, thank you for your points on my event. I truly enjoy when people pick on it or give their thoughts, as we aren't going to grow if we don't communicate on what we all want. Too often I'm worried people won't call me out if I'm doing something at my events they don't enjoy, and at the end we always have a big AAR where we go over everything we thought went well, what to improve, etc. I do take suggestions and always make changes. This is an event for us, by us. We actually have a lot of very authentic loaner kits, especially if a person already has some items that work. Also, 2nd Bat very generously provided loaner kits for some guys at the last event, and I cannot thank him enough for that. I am getting the authenticity guides up on my page soon, and we'll go over those who want to attend but need loaner items to make sure everyone gets squared away. Most loaner kits are US Inf. or Italian RSI. Last point in response to your last sentence, you're right. I've got the field and everything. So maybe a 3rd event a year, a more relaxed one or an "all fronts" one so to speak might be worth looking into. That is a good idea.
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Post by bloodandguts5150 on Apr 17, 2019 20:04:15 GMT -5
I understand all of your points. But I do think you should seriously consider an all fronts ‘WWII Days’ type event. Make it a 3 day event.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 18, 2019 1:38:28 GMT -5
Great, civil and productive dialogue. So rare in the airsoft OR reenactor communities. Anyone hosting a WW2 or WW2 themed event is welcome to use my loaner costume department. I have found with the ability to dress up a dozen or more GIs and a dozen (at a distance) Krauts you can promote and hold events that attract and please a nice mix of attendees and interests. Since our is a hobby of "fantasy" and everyones "fantasy" is a little different you're never going to get a decent sized turnout and have everyones hopes and expectations perfectly met. A little compromise goes a long wag toward a successful event.
I have always been more about authenticity of missions, tactics and a movie like experience but realize that for some camp life, gear and ambiance are more important. I just love taking in and appreciating whats right about an event and try not to dwell much on where they fell short.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 19, 2019 16:11:38 GMT -5
This new S&T AEG M1 Garand and even less expensive S&T springer Kar 98 are both absolutely skirmishable and should help our growth a lot. Both are offering I for one have been waiting 20 plus years to see!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 25, 2019 15:05:29 GMT -5
I think the real challenge is something ws have been dancing around for ever. The only consistent large scale event organizers do them as a full time gig. Its how they make their living. Sponsoring, promoting, organizing and pulling off quality events is time consuming, expensive and requires focus and dedication. For those of us who do them while we have a job, families or school commitments doing events on a regular basis is impossible. We either allow our relationships to struggle, our finances to get drained, or school work is compromised or our workplace effectiveness drops.
For big events to happen an individual or group has to be dedicated enough or wealthy enough to patiently lay the foundation and wait for it to build. The events themselves need to generate enough revenue to justify a return on the effort. Failing to do that eventuallg forces even the most passionate sponsor to quit at least until the unselfish desire builds up enough to hold another only to be crushed by poir turnout, damaged or stolen equipment or whining participants who didnt see enough enemy, saw too many enemy were wiped out too many times or not challenged enough.
For the NE there is the potential for a huge breakthrough. Historicalmilsim which was once driven by a wealthy passionate individual who threw wnough energy and money at the hobby that he managed to pull off quite a few great events went away when he went broke and nearly lost his family. This organization is now being resurrected up in Vermont by one of its long time members who is SINGLE has low low overhead a great venue (which he camps on) and absorbed all the super expensive props (a dozen GP tents, deuce and a halves, jeeps, field kitchens, thousands of sandbags, field radios etc. He is currently doing vietnam events and cold war scenarios but wants to expand to Ww2. If we jump on his bandwagon and give him the boost he needs and encouragement I think (at least in the NE) this is the catalyst we need. Hopefully it can expand to other areas.
He can be found on facebook currently promoting Liberty Canyon the Au Shau Valley. I am flying out to the event from Seattle which is being held in mid July.
His event costs are very modest so huge numbers are the onky way he can make that work. He is building loaner gear for numerous periods including WW2.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 30, 2019 12:45:29 GMT -5
Here is a short video of their Vietnam style Firebase which shows the impact that a well done, preparedvenue can have for destination weekend long events. Though Vietnam themed they intend to develope areas that could enhance WW1, WW2, Modern and Korean WAR events. A great venue is 80% of whats needed for large quality events. m.facebook.com/events/172122853734415?view=permalink&id=297616971185002&sfnsn=mo
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on May 31, 2019 1:47:55 GMT -5
Not to change the topic, but 2nd Bat, you think that any of these fields you know might be interest in a large amount of loaner gear? I haven't posted mine on the eBay just yet. It would be easier and I feel more helpful to the hobby to just sell my stuff in bulk to one of these fields or organizers who can get the most use out of this stuff.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 31, 2019 16:08:54 GMT -5
I cut him a deal on large groupings of both NAM stuff and WW2. That are surplus to me. His current focus is primarily Vietnam but if he sufficiently grows his WW2 following he would be a strong candidate for your stuff. Shipping from me is brutally expensive but he could probably drive down and load your stuff.I
He has some film projects up coming as well.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on May 31, 2019 20:31:16 GMT -5
Or at least meet halfway in Jersey or something. Can you put me in contact with him, please? This would save me a lot of trouble than putting a massive amount of individual items on eBay.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 1, 2019 15:57:25 GMT -5
Because he is ramping up for this huge NAM game in July that is his main focus right now and hes a little strapped for cash. He just bought some additional GP Medium tents, a field kitchen and got one of his vehicles up and running (A modern (70s) deuce and a half. He promotes on facebook (Liberty Canyon). His email is: Historicalmilsim@gmail.com and his name is Nick Diaz great guy.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Jun 6, 2019 1:08:12 GMT -5
Thanks! We might have something going, and since he asked, I did have extra 'Nam gear that I no longer need, too.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 14, 2019 20:19:28 GMT -5
He definitely will jump on the Nam gear and ultimately no doubt whatever WW2 stuff you still have. In addition to airsoft events he has film connections where he supplys props and his venue. Feel free to drop my name.
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Post by OwO Jima on Jun 28, 2019 2:11:06 GMT -5
I've always butt heads with the majority of the historical airsoft community, and I expect this post to be no exception - but I've been thinking about this question a lot lately, and recently someone posed a similar question on a Facebook group I'm a member of. I've actually thought about my answer for years now - even as I've transitioned from "historical airsofter opposed to modern airsoft and blank fire reenacting", to "blank fire reenactor and modern airsoft completely opposed to historical airsoft", to finally "immersion driven individual who considers attending just about any quality event" - and I recently realized that this question is considerably deeper than it initially appears. The question "how do we get more members?" forces everyone to ask themselves "what do I want out of WWII airsoft and the WWII airsoft community, and how do I steer the community in that direction?". Obviously, everyone has their own idea of what WWII airsoft could be, and therefore everyone has a different idea for which direction the community should take.
I started off as a historical airsofter doing Vietnam airsoft, and did that for several years until I eventually gave up 'Namsoft for good a few years back. There were a few reasons I switched over to reenacting, but most boiled down to a singular issue: what I wanted out of Vietnam airsoft was completely opposite from what the majority of the VNAS community wanted. I bring this up because I see a lot of parallels between the two communities: while I heavily stress the importance of unit and time-frame specific research and holding yourself and others to a high standard of authenticity, both the Vietnam and WWII airsoft communities seem to focus on being as accessible as possible - namely, by lowering the community expectations for authenticity.
I’ve never been able to wrap my head around this mentality, and the excuse I’ve heard all-too-often to justify this thought process is “it’s only airsoft” - but I’ve always wondered “so what if it is?”. We as airsofters have the same access to uniforms, equipment - and most importantly - information as reenactors do, but I’ve seen so many historical airsofters either choose to do something completely contrary to historical fact or outright ignore information when it’s presented because “it’s only airsoft”. The excuse “it’s only airsoft” hurts everyone in the community - it delegitimizes the efforts of those who put the time and money into actually building an impression, and it delegitimizes airsoft as a whole in the eyes of similar hobbies.
As I said above, everyone has their own idea of what WWII airsoft could be and which direction the community should take, so I’ll offer my take for whatever it’s worth: "what do I want out of WWII airsoft and the WWII airsoft community, and how do I steer the community in that direction?"
The way I see it, WWII airsoft should basically be WWII reenacting but with airsoft guns. It's far more viable now than it was years ago when I first explored doing it - with a surprising number of WWII offerings being released since I first started playing almost ten years ago. In my eyes, the only visual difference between WWII airsoft and blank-fire reenacting should be the guns and the eye/face protection - off the field, the two should be indistinguishable from each other. In order for that to happen, the WWII airsoft community needs to change - no more hiding behind "it's only airsoft". No more lame excuses. Stop touting WWII airsoft as "so easy anyone can do it". I still stand by my previous reply - I think that most airsofters aren't interested for a variety of reasons, and I think the strategy of "hook 'em by making it super easy and hope they decide to stay and eventually improve" is both unreliable and a poor move.
In contrast to the rest of the suggestions on this thread, I suggest enforcing higher standards of authenticity across the community, and hosting a variety of immersion driven events. While this won’t attract your average airsofter, emphasizing these elements will legitimize airsoft among the reenacting and collecting circles and potentially attract people who already have a passion for this sort of stuff. I believe if you attempted to elevate yourselves in the eyes of the reenacting community, not only would reenactors be willing to collaborate for combination airsoft/blankfire events, a few might even take the plunge to attend an immersive airsoft-only event.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 28, 2019 16:59:19 GMT -5
I love the underlying theme of your post (Stop hiding under the excuse "Its only airsoft"). The other key issue you also addressed is the fact that everyone, (every single one) who is intrigued by reenacting or action pursuit games of any kind has their own fantasy vision about what they want the event to be. Hence there will never be an event that fully satisfies every one.
All we can do is make clear what the event vision is, what the standards are (and stick by them) and try to attract the audience that is most likely to come and then want to come back. I loath reenactor events with their hyler critical stitch nazi eye for detail and comical lack of authenticity in the tactical phases. Mostly I hate the tribal mindset of berrating anything that in their opinion falls short of their obsessive research. The endless posts about mistakes in Saving Private Ryan and Fury etc. Calling everything "Flaggrantly Wrong" while having never themselves beenin the military let alone having combat experience. Having said all that I have a better appreciation for the sensitivity to blatant visual mistakes at events with sneakers or modern camo, digital watches etc and how destructive that can be to the sense of emmersion we all want. My expectations have changed and while I have no further interest in the reenactor experience (At my age I would be a detraction no matter how perfect the impression) I am much more tolerant of the fact that some people absolutely love it.
I long for the day when aside from the sound of blankfire you wouldnt know an airsoft living history event from a BF event other than the ducking and realistic effects of legitimate suppressive fire. Most of the events I attend or put on are a very balanced blend of both with blankfire and airsoft. There also tend to be about 1/3rd of the participants who are avid reenactors. Perhaps by falling somewhat short of perfection we keep the overly anal stitch nazis away? Now I no longer see these folks as bad people I just know I dont enjoy being around them. We just see things differently , but then...don't we all?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 22, 2019 8:44:36 GMT -5
I am in the process of flying home from the big Nam event up in Vermont (Liberty Canyon Series). It had good turnout though well short of expectations and budgeted expenses so the sponsor no doubt lost money or if lucky broke even. I suspect he had about 85 participants but many were staff helpers and probably paid little if anything. His advanced tickets were $25.00 which simply isnt close to enough to put on a quality event. He has a 200 acre venue tents, props, vehicles and lots of rental gear and loaner items that he will no doubt never pay off. The overall concensus has been very positive and it seems most everyone had a great time. The impressions ranged from spectacular to okay with none falling into the dreadful stage. The firebase looked awesome as did the props and he must have expended $600.00 in pyro (at least). The temperature and humidity was stiffling so operations were kept to a minimum and there were still 2 heat cases and one that went to the hospital via ambulance. One other hospital trip was result of a badly sliced hand.
The key observation I had at this event enforces what I said earlier. Some players wanted more trigger time and mission deployment while a big chunk of the players seemed perfectly content to hand around camp posing and BSing and it was like herding cats to get em out on a mission. Seriously I was going crazy wondering what they were doing while standing around as when called to go on an op they, in many cases werent even close to ready to go. It made me nuts but everyone seemed okay with it.
The VC and NVA had the advantage of hidden camps with no need for 24hour, 360 degree security. The US base camp looked cool but was absolutely indefensible without constantly manned, near in ambushes and active patrols which didnt happen. The weather being a somewhat legitimate excuse. Videos I have seen of the field manuevering are comically sophomoric and disappointing to a 7 year Infantryman but I have to swallow hard and accept that few are trained in tactics and naturally are clueless. seriously though, how tough is fire and manuever, get down when not moving, sweep past the casualty you're eventually going to get around to search and be mindful of rear security? I asked if anyone within the 60 or so US players were hunters and only two responded yes so stalking, field movement and stealth I guess are unreasonable expectations. There were a couple cool engagements but mostly lopsided affairs. Where superior US numbers were crushed by a smaller number of Vc or NVA. The final big night battle being the exception as the defenders did deploy outside the perimeter ambushes which worked well. In my case they didnt quite come into our kill zone so we let them pass but then came up behind them with the incredible (unplanned) luck of them being perfectly silhouetted on the onset of dusk and online in front of us. It was a turkey shoot. I searched 3 of the five bodies I took out. We only lost one man in our fight man ambush. It made the hour and 45 minutes laying motionless with leaves over us enduring mosquitos and heat worthwhile. I hand picked guys I knew would happily do so including 68 year old named Gish who is a stud!
The critical thing is folks had fun and historicalmilsim realizes, to stay occupied they have to expand to other periods so hopefully if he doesnt go bancrupt first he will expand to include WW2. He has the wherewithall to do it g ght and has lots to build on. Nate Brown (Brownien) from this forum was there, was anyone else?
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Post by norseman on Jul 27, 2019 13:07:21 GMT -5
I am in the process of flying home from the big Nam event up in Vermont (Liberty Canyon Series). It had good turnout though well short of expectations and budgeted expenses so the sponsor no doubt lost money or if lucky broke even. I suspect he had about 85 participants but many were staff helpers and probably paid little if anything. His advanced tickets were $25.00 which simply isnt close to enough to put on a quality event. He has a 200 acre venue tents, props, vehicles and lots of rental gear and loaner items that he will no doubt never pay off. The overall concensus has been very positive and it seems most everyone had a great time. The impressions ranged from spectacular to okay with none falling into the dreadful stage. The firebase looked awesome as did the props and he must have expended $600.00 in pyro (at least). The temperature and humidity was stiffling so operations were kept to a minimum and there were still 2 heat cases and one that went to the hospital via ambulance. One other hospital trip was result of a badly sliced hand. The key observation I had at this event enforces what I said earlier. Some players wanted more trigger time and mission deployment while a big chunk of the players seemed perfectly content to hand around camp posing and BSing and it was like herding cats to get em out on a mission. Seriously I was going crazy wondering what they were doing while standing around as when called to go on an op they, in many cases werent even close to ready to go. It made me nuts but everyone seemed okay with it. The VC and NVA had the advantage of hidden camps with no need for 24hour, 360 degree security. The US base camp looked cool but was absolutely indefensible without constantly manned, near in ambushes and active patrols which didnt happen. The weather being a somewhat legitimate excuse. Videos I have seen of the field manuevering are comically sophomoric and disappointing to a 7 year Infantryman but I have to swallow hard and accept that few are trained in tactics and naturally are clueless. seriously though, how tough is fire and manuever, get down when not moving, sweep past the casualty you're eventually going to get around to search and be mindful of rear security? I asked if anyone within the 60 or so US players were hunters and only two responded yes so stalking, field movement and stealth I guess are unreasonable expectations. There were a couple cool engagements but mostly lopsided affairs. Where superior US numbers were crushed by a smaller number of Vc or NVA. The final big night battle being the exception as the defenders did deploy outside the perimeter ambushes which worked well. In my case they didnt quite come into our kill zone so we let them pass but then came up behind them with the incredible (unplanned) luck of them being perfectly silhouetted on the onset of dusk and online in front of us. It was a turkey shoot. I searched 3 of the five bodies I took out. We only lost one man in our fight man ambush. It made the hour and 45 minutes laying motionless with leaves over us enduring mosquitos and heat worthwhile. I hand picked guys I knew would happily do so including 68 year old named Gish who is a stud! The critical thing is folks had fun and historicalmilsim realizes, to stay occupied they have to expand to other periods so hopefully if he doesnt go bancrupt first he will expand to include WW2. He has the wherewithall to do it g ght and has lots to build on. Nate Brown (Brownien) from this forum was there, was anyone else? I see you as the FATHER of milsim airsoft in the USA. When you and PSAC where putting on Gallant Saber 1 and 2? I was traveling to other venues... we were all woods paintballers by comparison. I played venues even in California and Oregon. And then after PSAC imploded and you started doing Historical Milsim? I consider you the FATHER of this genre as well. When people talk about the novelty of Milsim West using blankfire at events? I just smile. Evike interviewed Johnathan from Airsoftology and he said that Washington was a Airsoft wasteland. Ha! Its great to see that your still involved with historical Milsim Airsoft!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 28, 2019 23:23:31 GMT -5
I think we were in some way ahead of some of the the trends that are happening now. I forgot that you were at Gallant Saber. That was a fun event to put on. It was contemporary but the emmersion, unit structure, game flow, story line and props were fairly unique for the time.
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Post by norseman on Jul 29, 2019 0:16:31 GMT -5
I think we were in some way ahead of some of the the trends that are happening now. I forgot that you were at Gallant Saber. That was a fun event to put on. It was contemporary but the emmersion, unit structure, game flow, story line and props were fairly unique for the time. I was at GS 1 and 2. I did not make it to GS3. By that time Helmutt and Josh Warren were involved I believe. 3rd Party actors Radio free Mugambi Jungle sounds booby traps military vehicles blank fire Night Ops It was all there. I know it was the birth of Spokane Airsoft and Airsoft Pacific. Gunny from AP played in blue jeans the first year and came back the second year as a murdering African dictator. LOL! Im sure you had help. People like ScottJ, Helmutt, Josh, Brian and others. But I give most of the credit to you. Can I ask why PSAC broke up? I found a video of GS1 that Cal Hultman posted up. I just checked and it had gotten pulled. Too bad.
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