|
Post by tapsmax on May 18, 2015 22:27:15 GMT -5
How comfortable are the german uniforms? All I know is that they're made of wool which is heavy, shrinks easily, and it keeps you dry and warm. I live in Wisconsin so we experience both super hot ( with med-high humidity) and super cold weather so I don't want to be baking and freezing in one. I can't decide if I should get a standard uniform or an HBT.
|
|
|
Post by luftwelle93 on May 18, 2015 23:17:25 GMT -5
HBT wasn't as common in West Europe theater.HBT from what I understand was more common in southern Europe.To be with the normal look,go with wool.As for comfort it will keep you warm in the cold.As for heat it can get toasty in around 65F or other mild temperatures.I haven't yet worn mine in hotter temps yet but from what I've heard wool breathes better. Regards
|
|
|
Post by ssgjoe on May 19, 2015 10:26:22 GMT -5
Wool is the way to go if you're doing a standard German Army impression, it's more authentic. As luftwelle stated, it breathes relatively well, even if it can be warm. I've worn mine in some pretty hot weather, and I could deal with it. Just bring a good amount of water, as you always should be doing.
|
|
|
Post by ssgjoe on May 19, 2015 10:26:47 GMT -5
And if you're worried about itchiness, get a service shirt. Well you should be getting a service hurt regardless.
|
|
|
Post by aldrich on May 19, 2015 15:14:41 GMT -5
A fellow Wisconsinite! I would go with the wool uniform first. I am from the Wausau area and and the wool tunic will work fine, plus it was the norm for WWII German troops. We regularly run WWII events here in WI and I have seen guys go through our summer events in their wool uniforms no problem. I would highly recommend going with a m40, m42, or m43 model tunic and m43 pants. If things get too warm you can always leave the tunic behind and go with just the service shirt and wool pants which was common enough among German troops in warmer climates. If you have any questions regarding WWII airsoft in Wisconsin just send me a PM and I can help get you connected.
|
|
|
Post by ssgjoe on May 19, 2015 20:24:01 GMT -5
There actually was a discussion about rocking just the service shirt in a FB group. We came to the conclusion that it wasn't a commodity. But I guess it's better than getting heat stroke
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on May 21, 2015 10:45:17 GMT -5
Comfort trumps regulations among combat troops dating back to the ancient greeks and before that. The closer to the point of the spear the looser regulations become. If its hot and regulations say you MUST wear your rediculously hot wool tunic I GUARANTEE you, heavily armed, men facing horrible deaths as a daily possibility will opt with that which makes sense and is comfortable. This has always been true and will always be true. The Germans are famous for their discipline and adherance to regulations however they were also human and pragmatic. If a service shirt made sense and removing their wool tunic increased their level of comfort MOST would ditch the tunc unless storing or hauling it off was more challenging than wearing it. With a camera man snapping pictures the wise soldier made sure he adhered to the required look at least to a reasonable level.
Reenactors over think and over analyse that which was "done". As a long time, combat Infantryman I am sick and tired of so called NAM experts telling others the GOSPEL of "absolutes" and "Nevers" without a clue other than what they read or pictures they perused. Talk to the vets or read their first hand accounts and you will quickly appreciate that anything that made sense and worked that could have been done WAS! I can absolutely say that on hot days service shirts were worn without the tunic. Regulations were ignored and uniformity took second place to common sense. Keep in mind as I say that, that uniformity made great common sense as well.
|
|
|
Post by LϟϟAH1944 on May 21, 2015 14:01:23 GMT -5
Or...just look at photos. they'll tell you what you need to know. if it was about looking proper when a camera was near, just look at SS-Nord (although DONT use ANYTHING from nord as a basis for a standard impression). Wools aren't terrible bad in the summer, as well. if you'd rather be comfortable than authentic, ww2 reenacting might not be for you.
|
|
|
Post by ssgjoe on May 21, 2015 15:26:54 GMT -5
Photos are pretty reliable resources. Not everyone has access to German veterans, so they must choose the next best resource: photos. You can never go wrong with photos. And as stated above, authenticity should be a priority. If you're in really hot weather, are HBTs are another option, but it's better to wear wools and drink lots of water.
|
|
|
Post by luftwelle93 on May 21, 2015 16:52:00 GMT -5
Plus another good piece of advice is to use a cotton scarf around your neck.This is to help chaffing from the wool and soldiers sometimes used such pieces.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on May 22, 2015 11:20:23 GMT -5
The scarf is an excellent suggestion as it was commonplace and truly makes a difference for comfort. With the proper undergarment wool is really not as bad as one would imagine. Its more comfortable when loose fitting than when tailor perfect snug and as you'll see in pictures they typical fit loose on the soldiers.
|
|
|
Post by LϟϟAH1944 on May 22, 2015 13:48:39 GMT -5
No, it should fit very snug, not at all like a suit.
|
|
|
Post by LϟϟAH1944 on May 22, 2015 13:48:51 GMT -5
snug and short is the proper fit of a feldbluse
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on May 22, 2015 13:55:40 GMT -5
Yeah...Tailor form fitted was definitely the look.
|
|
|
Post by insterburger on May 22, 2015 15:12:45 GMT -5
You're both right.
Certainly pre-war and earlier in the war a snug and tailored look was commonplace, but as the war progressed the German Feldbluse quickly became looser and less form-fitting as well as being made of cheaper and cheaper material. Anyone doing an early war impression really absolutely needs a snug fit, but by 1944 a baggier look should be the way to go. The shorter tailored style is never "wrong,"-- especially for an older player who is looking to portray an "alte Hase," but as 2nd Bat points out, a looser cut is more correct for the time period we typically portray.
I was looking through some unpublished photos I have from the East front in 1944, and while there were a guy or two who had the early war snug look, the majority of the German soldiers show a typically late war loose fit(similar to the pic above), with some tunics that could be described as downright baggy.
|
|
|
Post by ssgjoe on May 22, 2015 15:50:59 GMT -5
Don't forget people lose weight on the front. You should have something in your size though. You may not need it form fitting and snug for 1944, but don't buy something a couple sizes too big.
|
|
|
Post by ssgjoe on May 22, 2015 15:51:53 GMT -5
Then you'd just look like a fruit
|
|
|
Post by insterburger on May 22, 2015 19:06:34 GMT -5
Don't forget people lose weight on the front. You should have something in your size though. You may not need it form fitting and snug for 1944, but don't buy something a couple sizes too big. It was definitely more than just guys losing weight, but I'm sure that was a factor too. The cut of German uniforms changed markedly to a looser look after the invasion of Russia (or thereabouts), concurrent with (and possibly at least partially caused by) the use of cheaper materials. Might also have to do with what 2nd Bat said, field experience showing that a looser tunic shed heat better in the summer-- and also, as I've found, provided more room for underlayers in winter... both of which would have been factors in Russia.
|
|
|
Post by aldrich on May 22, 2015 21:01:36 GMT -5
I think it is best that we stop this debate before it gets too circular. I don't think anyone is going to buy something abnormally big for them, but if they did get something that wasn't tailored perfectly to their body either then it isn't the end of the world. As long as it fits well, it should be ok. This idea that every tunic was form fitting and tailored is one largely put out there by Lost Battalions who had interviewed a German tailor (I believe that is where they got their info). While it is true that many troops early in the war used their company tailors to alter their uniforms to fit this way, once the war progressed this was not always possible and you got what you got. Most conscripts would be led into a room filled with tunics, would have their measurements taken, and would be given the best fitting tunic that was on the shelf. Some were lucky, some were not.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on May 22, 2015 21:21:20 GMT -5
Bingo! lost weight from the rigors of field life (especially combat troops) was definitely also a factor. Part of our challenge is that the hollywood image of neat, orderly and well fitted costumes influences our perception of what we should look like although recent films have done a much better job of showing delapidated, grimey and ill fitting uniforms on their actors.
|
|
|
Post by ssgjoe on May 22, 2015 22:10:38 GMT -5
I find it funny when people lost photos of Germans in parade dress and say "everything was form fitting, almost like spandex" (sarcasm), and this is in response to a field uniform. A field uniform and parade uniform are both different. BUT you should still get something that fits well. I have seen people that had abnormally big tunics and say "oh so I can grow into it" XD it looks ridiculous.
|
|
mullet69
Private
Need advice about recommended airsoft weapon from the German selection
Posts: 41
|
Post by mullet69 on Jun 27, 2015 8:17:10 GMT -5
Comfort trumps regulations among combat troops dating back to the ancient greeks and before that. The closer to the point of the spear the looser regulations become. If its hot and regulations say you MUST wear your rediculously hot wool tunic I GUARANTEE you, heavily armed, men facing horrible deaths as a daily possibility will opt with that which makes sense and is comfortable. This has always been true and will always be true. The Germans are famous for their discipline and adherance to regulations however they were also human and pragmatic. If a service shirt made sense and removing their wool tunic increased their level of comfort MOST would ditch the tunc unless storing or hauling it off was more challenging than wearing it. With a camera man snapping pictures the wise soldier made sure he adhered to the required look at least to a reasonable level. Reenactors over think and over analyse that which was "done". As a long time, combat Infantryman I am sick and tired of so called NAM experts telling others the GOSPEL of "absolutes" and "Nevers" without a clue other than what they read or pictures they perused. Talk to the vets or read their first hand accounts and you will quickly appreciate that anything that made sense and worked that could have been done WAS! I can absolutely say that on hot days service shirts were worn without the tunic. Regulations were ignored and uniformity took second place to common sense. Keep in mind as I say that, that uniformity made great common sense as well.
|
|
mullet69
Private
Need advice about recommended airsoft weapon from the German selection
Posts: 41
|
Post by mullet69 on Jun 27, 2015 8:20:43 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more,about to get back into battling again but using airsoft this time.seriously considering starting an axis group here in Texas but will probably do Afrika Korp because of the climate..even too hot to do fallschumjager here!
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 27, 2015 21:29:42 GMT -5
The Mediterranean Theater of Operations probably makes the most sense for Texas and other more arid locations here in the States.
|
|
mullet69
Private
Need advice about recommended airsoft weapon from the German selection
Posts: 41
|
Post by mullet69 on Jun 28, 2015 9:50:21 GMT -5
The Mediterranean Theater of Operations probably makes the most sense for Texas and other more arid locations here in the States. yeh l'm from the UK originally so wool uniform's were actually nice to wear! my plan is to buy an AGM MP40 as a starter weapon along with the tropical uniform obviously,as i've said i'm new to airsoft so would appreciate any recommendations...especially with regard to first weapon & kit suppliers.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 28, 2015 10:28:36 GMT -5
The MP40 is the most affordable, truly skirmishable airsoft weapon for Germans and hence is the most popular. It also served throughout the war and is an iconic weapon from WW2. The only downside is it (like the airsoft Thimpsons on the Allied side) are far more numerous on the field than they would have been in reality. This, sadly is unavoidable until an affordable and skirmishable Kar 98 is available. The Kar 98 eventually should be almost a mandatory rifle for all German reenactors but obviously we aren't even close to establishing such a standard. You'll quickly discover that Historical airsoft can become addictive and you'll eventually have a mix of German weapons in your armory. Not a bad thing as youll be able to support and arm buddies at events who aren't into it to your extent AND mix around your role and weapons use at events which is also quite fun.
Currently there is too much full auto fire at WW2 airsoft events which impacts authenticity. Some events mandate that a high percentage of the full auto airsoft weapons be restricted to semi auto fire and until good bolt action rifles come in under $250.00 this will have to suffice. The STG 44 is also a viable choice and a PPSH. Hopefully S&T or some other company will offer a Kar 98 someday soon.
|
|
Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
|
Post by Dracul on Jun 28, 2015 10:35:16 GMT -5
Nothing wrong with starting out with a SMG. Like 2ndBat said, they are the most affordable. I, and probably a lot of others, started with a Thompson. While 2ndBat is definitely right about the scale of issue of MP40's vs Kar98's, or SMG vs Rifles in general, I wouldn't worry about it too much until you get into strict WWII games. If you are just going to play with the other modern guys, then starting with a SMG is probably your best bet.
Also, from what I understand, all the German tropical/DAK uniforms are made from twill fabric. Its sort of like HBT, but not at tightly woven, and makes it more breathable, better airflow, and cooler. I'd love to make some tropical uniforms when I get the chance, but living in Maryland means not much of a point... Maybe once I get more standard Wehrmacht kits ready to go, I'll make some tropical German stuff.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 28, 2015 10:44:22 GMT -5
As man power sortages began to dramatically impact the German war effort Hitler ordered that the size of Geman Infantry Kompanies be reduced but added a higher percentage of MP40s and later Stg 44s into the weapos mix so by the time of the fighting in Western Europe (post Normandy) the MP40 became actually much more commonplace. No where near to the percentages we see in airsoft but far more abundant in the early stages of the conflict where 80% of you frontline soldiers had Kar 98s.
|
|
mullet69
Private
Need advice about recommended airsoft weapon from the German selection
Posts: 41
|
Post by mullet69 on Jun 28, 2015 13:22:26 GMT -5
As always thanks for the input,it's all greatly appreciated...looks like MP40 is the way to go but I have got one eye on a K98 in the future.as far as kit goes I've been looking at Zib-Militaria recently & it looks pretty good but no definite supplier yet..will continue to browse
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 28, 2015 14:09:53 GMT -5
The Tanaka Kar 98 has generally received pretty consistently positive reviews (which for a gas rifle is quite unusual). They are however expensive. There are some recently offered clones of that rifle that are far less expensive but their reviews have been quite mixed. The homebuilt conversions are far from perfect visually but work well and are affordable only if you're willing to put in the build time which is extensive.
As mentioned elsewhere (and often). Hopefully some mainstream manufacturer will bring out a non shell ejecting, quality spring powered Kar 98 at a decent price. (under $200.00). Another option to consider is the Cheap M1 Carbines from CYMA. They require some fairly minor visual tweaks to make them WW2 appropriate but they would work in a pinch for a German impression. The US made M1 carbine was extremely popular with German troops who often "adopted" them on the battlefield when they could and were captured in great enough numbers that the German Army type classified them and authorized their use.
|
|