2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 1, 2015 18:38:37 GMT -5
Since I ultimately need 10 to 12 sets. Where should I go for the least expensive sets of German uniform insignia. What I would like to add to my uniforms are collar litzen, epaulets (Infantry) a breast eagle (bevos are fine) and maybe a few rank insignia. Corpora! And senior corporal. I know the epaulets will have to match.
Even small savings add up when you're buying a lot of them. Truthfully since they will mostly be hidden under splinter smocks and zelts perfection is far from critical. Has anyone had any luck making something yourself?
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 2, 2015 17:44:25 GMT -5
Since my "tunics" will mostly be hidden under splinter or marsh and tan smocks. Collar insignia is really all that needs to look good. I have an idea for making my own epaulets and if they come out "at a glance" decent I'll share the approach. I don't have Dracul sewing skills but a walk through at my local craft shop gave me some ideas.
|
|
Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
|
Post by Dracul on Oct 2, 2015 18:54:35 GMT -5
Someone can tell you if there is a consistent "cheapest source," but what I can tell is to just keep checking the Sale and Close-out sections of Hessen Antique, ATF, Kelley's Militaria, and LuckyLine (ManTheLine's ebay shop) DAILY! They post insignia in those sections regularly.
|
|
|
Post by labrador on Oct 2, 2015 19:13:37 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by aldrich on Oct 2, 2015 22:11:31 GMT -5
I believe At The Front still has generic Heer collar tabs on closeout for a few bucks a piece.
|
|
|
Post by CPL. Mills 2nd Rangers on Oct 4, 2015 6:57:03 GMT -5
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 5, 2015 18:35:30 GMT -5
Wow! Even as cheap as I am that works!
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 25, 2015 13:13:41 GMT -5
Insignia of course quickly adds up when you are doing up 12 uniforms. At the minimum you need a breast eagle, litzen and epaulets. Add a few sleave rank insignia and maybe a decoration here and there and the cash register keeps clicking away. The reference resources help a lot.
|
|
|
Post by ssgjoe on Oct 25, 2015 13:23:13 GMT -5
Yes I agree. I'm putting together only five uniforms for a film I'm working on and it still adds up with only a few uniforms.
|
|
|
Post by insterburger on Oct 29, 2015 6:41:19 GMT -5
2nd Bat-- I wonder if for your purposes (mass-produced loaner uniforms where strict authenticity is not at a premium) it wouldn't pay to do a custom fabric print like Drac is doing for his splinter fabric-- except instead of a camo pattern it is a repeated pattern of Litzen and Reichsadler which you cut out and apply to the uniforms. Not the most authentic solution (on close inspection they would obviously be printed and not sewn or embroidered), but you could pack a whole lot of those into a yard of fabric.
|
|
|
Post by aldrich on Oct 29, 2015 10:31:27 GMT -5
I actually just read a history forum the other day where they were discussing late late war printed insignia. A few guys there had photos of originals in their collection. Not sure about the collar litzen, but the eagles for both the SS and the Heer seem to both have been printed at some point in the last months of the war.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 29, 2015 11:34:46 GMT -5
I have considered having a stamp made for the litzen and breast eagle. There is a stamp store at the mall that caters to scrap bookers and they are fairly cheap. The craft store sells white and silver fabric paint. This sounds dreadful I know but I think it might work FOR MY PURPOSES. I made epaulets using felt trimmed with strands of squeaze on fabric paint and they came out pretty good.
|
|
Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
|
Post by Dracul on Oct 29, 2015 13:19:50 GMT -5
Huh.... You know, this idea seems pretty damned solid! I like it, and I'll even do this for my loaner kits. This will also allow me to remove the swastikas from the designs in a nice clean manner. Won't be for my personal kits, but for loaners, this makes insignia actually possible! I originally planned on no insignia for mostly cost reasons.
I'd gladly pay 30 bucks (Spoonflower's heavy cotton twill, they don't offer wool) for a yard of repeating breast eagles and litzen. Thats going to be a whole freaking lot of litzen and breast eagles.
I'll get to creating a pattern of it with photoshop when I get some time!
Thanks for the ideas Insterburger and Aldrich!
|
|
|
Post by aldrich on Oct 29, 2015 14:44:10 GMT -5
I can't speak for the collar tabs, but here is an example of an original breast eagle from a late (1945) m44 tunic. It is pretty flat so it may be easy to cut and paste onto a pattern.
|
|
Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
|
Post by Dracul on Oct 29, 2015 15:03:32 GMT -5
And that even looks like a twill of some sort, so, I wouldn't have to worry about it not being wool. I could just make the print pattern to have rows and rows of them printed onto the fabric, make room for hemming, and just cut them out and sew them on! Just like the picture there!
|
|
|
Post by LÏŸÏŸAH1944 on Oct 29, 2015 19:39:53 GMT -5
No insignia except boards, SS tabs, and SS cloth backed eagles should be wool. Heer breast eagles are BeVo, as are heer litzen.
|
|
|
Post by ssgjoe on Oct 29, 2015 20:22:15 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|
|
|
Post by insterburger on Oct 31, 2015 11:53:01 GMT -5
Glad I had an idea that is actually helpful, Drac!
If you get them made, it will be a huge batch on a yard of fabric-- if you could spare two or three sets as a "tip" for the idea, I'd appreciate it!
Give the size of the run, I wonder if you couldn't work some SS sleeve eagles and collar tabs into the design-- say, at a 1:5 or 1:4 ratio against WH stuff. Also, you could do some of the Reichsadler with the swazi and some without, at whatever ratio makes sense. All of this gives you more options going forward, since no matter what a yard of fabric will yield way more insignia than you'll probably ever need.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 31, 2015 20:55:18 GMT -5
Since they would do a digital print of whatever electronic image you submitted what other insignia might make sense to include for print on a thick poplin?
|
|
|
Post by ssgjoe on Oct 31, 2015 23:46:17 GMT -5
It's pretty much eagles and litzen. Iron cross ribbons are cheap enough and you might be able to do rank insignia..but I think that'd be hardly worth it
|
|
Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
|
Post by Dracul on Nov 1, 2015 8:37:43 GMT -5
Insterburger: I'd be more than glad to send some your way! As you said, it will be a huge batch of fabric! I should be able to get some SS stuff and swastika in there, too. Let me know how much you are looking to get, and I'll get them into the photoshop!
2nd Bat: I was thinking about getting the heavy cotton twill. I feel that would closely resemble Aldrich's example, but a cotton poplin might work, too. I'll order swatches of both to see how they turn out.
SSGJoe/LSS4H: Thanks for the input. I wasn't planning on Iron Cross ribbons or even ranks. I'm equipping guys based on sizes. It would be weird to give a guy who is going to be a team leader a tunic with no rank, then a guy under him with rank because the tunic with the rank fits him, and not the team leader (and I'm definitely not taking the time in the morning of a game to start swapping around and re-sewing ranks either.....)
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 1, 2015 17:09:59 GMT -5
Another thing to consider are any allied insignia that might make sense on heavy poplin. I can't think of any US but perhaps British?
|
|
Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
|
Post by Dracul on Nov 1, 2015 20:44:26 GMT -5
British can definitely use some insignia. They had a lot of unit and location patches.
|
|
|
Post by insterburger on Nov 2, 2015 7:57:11 GMT -5
What is the size of the pattern repeat? That would be your limiting factor as to how much different insignia you can incorporate.
Also, since Aldrich's example is a closing-months-of-the-war thing, I wouldn't be too worried about replicating it exactly. Since most of what we play is 6/44-1/45, I'd just scan a late war Reichsadler and some late war generic Litzen, clean them up a bit in PhotoShop, and have a nice day.
Drac, if you don't have examples of those, let me know, I have a high-quality scanner and could generate the scan files. Mine are for the most part sewn on uniforms, but given the nature of this project that shouldn't be a huge issue-- as long as I can fit them on the flatbed!
|
|
Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
|
Post by Dracul on Nov 2, 2015 19:37:09 GMT -5
Actually, that would be a great help!
A yard, depending on the material I choose, could be 36in x 40in or 36in x 50in. I can actually upload an image file sized just like that if I wanted to.
I'd, of course, test things out with some swatches on different materials, before going for a significant piece. While its impossible to say how MANY individual pieces of insignia I can fit in a yard, until I hop onto the photoshop. But I know that I should be able to all the different types we talked about. Even each type of one with slight variations (breast eagle w/ AND w/out swastika).
If you have a few yard sticks, make a perpendicular L-shape with them, and just imagine trying to fill up that gap by placing each single piece of insignia (sans rank) you might have into this space, row by row of each type.
Now, a single breast eagle is right over 4 inches long (at least one I own), give an extra half inch on both sides to hem, so a total of 5in per each breast eagle. On the 36in axis (no pun intended) of the yard, you can get SEVEN breast eagles like that! A few more on the longer axis! Now, the breast eagle is just under 2in tall, again, add a inch total for hemming. Making a total space needed for one breast eagle w/ hem is 3x5in. So, that means, if the yard of fabric is a true, 36x36in yard, that means one row of 7 breast eagles will, at most, take 3x36in! With how trapezoid-like shape of the breast eagle, I might be able to fit one more by turning every other one in the row upside down, and have the side angles connect.
This would allow us to have 33x36in left over for all the other individual insignia! And with how small Litzen and SS collar tabs are, I'd imagine we can have at least have a single pair of collar devices, Heer or SS, to every eagle.
Hypothetically, with the breast eagle probably the tallest insignia of them, rather, the collar devices on their long sides are shorter than the vertical side of the breast eagle, I think its fair to say that each other type of insignia has one dimension that can fit into a 3in row, with hemming added. What that means, again, hypothetically, if I had 33x36in left over in the yard from placing in a row of breast eagles, that means, I can have 10-11 rows for each other type of insignia!
And of course, the numbers are actually better than this! The actual printed yards will vary from 36x40in to 36x50in, that WILL add a significant more amount of insignia per row if on the longer axis of the yard!
The mental image I'm getting of this is kind of mind blowing!
(wow, this post went much deeper and grander than I thought it would have...haha)
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 2, 2015 21:33:09 GMT -5
Spoonflower must have an outrageous set up fee for something custom like that, that you'd want to do wouldn't they? If not I think we just solved our cheap insignia search? Wow! Count me in for 20 bevo eagles and sets of litzen as well as the odd rank insignia!
|
|
Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
|
Post by Dracul on Nov 2, 2015 21:49:09 GMT -5
They don't! At most, for the heavy cotton twill, its about 30 bucks a yard! And that yard is 36x50in! I get it a few bucks cheaper, too for being a designer and uploading my own designs (from other hobbies) onto their site!
It will be a bit before I go and get this all set up and trying things out, because I have loaner kits to finish up for Aachen, but after that I'm all good for going head on into this!
|
|
|
Post by insterburger on Nov 3, 2015 18:56:07 GMT -5
Cool, Drac, we'll talk. I have an unmounted tropical eagle and a Luftwaffe one, I see no reason not to scan those too. It seems there will be plenty of room for different stuff... it seems like I should be able to give you at least the following, at an excellent resolution:
-- Early war eagle -- Early war Litzen (infantry) -- late war eagle -- Late war "generic" Litzen -- SS sleeve eagle -- SS collar tabs -- Afrika Korps eagle -- Luftwaffe eagle
Let me know if you think of anything else.
|
|
Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
|
Post by Dracul on Nov 3, 2015 19:18:08 GMT -5
Awesome.
Was there any Mid war eagles and litzens?
Afrika Korps and Luftwaffe, I'll prepare them to put onto a pattern, but those are last priority for now. Since it seems others want some pieces of this pie, too, haha.
Let me know what styles you want, too. After appropriate Mid-war Heer stuff for myself, I'll get whatever you need to you since you came up with this idea.
|
|
|
Post by insterburger on Nov 3, 2015 19:24:04 GMT -5
Thanks, I'm sure there will be more than enough to go around!
The two main styles of Litzen and eagles were the early/pre-war style and a mid-to late war style.
The early eagles had bottle green backing with white stitching, which gave way to a more grey-green backing and a greyer stitching. The majority of your run should be the latter.
Likewise, early Litzen were color-coded to branch of service, and were replaced in 42-43 with a "one color fits all branches" version. Again, these should be in the majority.
Will start to scan and clean up the insignia as I get the time.
|
|