Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Nov 22, 2016 8:38:22 GMT -5
I recently got myself a 3D printer, and I'm going to answer the call, or at least try to, of cheaper and easier to get bits for bolt action conversions.
Initial goal: To offer individual 3D printed replica pieces and kits at lower costs than live steel pieces to assist builders in the contruction of custom built WWII bolt action rifles in airsoft forms, and in the most simple ways possible.
Potential future goal: To offer near-full DIY kits that will have everything needed for a simple Hairy Apple-style conversion. To the point where all you need is the base VSR-10 clone and this DIY (more details below).
Material notes: They will be printed with a copolymer material. I'm sticking with Color Fabb nGen filament. While I am capable of printing with metal filaments, they are rather brittle, since its made up of a bunch of metal particles along side with plastic. Think of it a crunchy cookie vs hard tack. The cookie has different particles in the batter that makes the final piece easily breakable, while the hard tack is made of mostly one substance. Long story short, 100% copolymer filled finished pieces are stronger than a finished piece made with the metal-polymer filament.
Strength notes: They should be fine, as long as no direct impact or great strain on the peaces are placed. So, I only really see sights and sling joints being a problem with this. I do suggest against using slings with these. I know those are important part of the rifle, but I'm too afraid that when you have it slung, the weight of the rifle (especially if stock is full wood) will snap off the sling bit. Either the sling ring from the barrel band, sling-ring-to-stock piece like in case of the Kar98.
"Finished" product notes: I'm going to try printing these out on black, grey and grey metallic colors. The individual pieces will need to be either sanded or primed with a special type of paint that fills up imperfections on the surface of 3D printed pieces. I'm still unsure if I will sell the unsanded/unprimed raw print, sanded/primed/ready for paint print, or finished painted print. I'm leaning towards the raw print or ready-for-paint print. This will allow the builder to paint it how they like, and probably do a better paint job than me. Regardless of how I sell/ship them, I will personally remove the "elephant's foot" from all pieces prior to ship ("elephant's foot" refers to how ALL 3D prints start out, where the bottom of the print become "flared" out due to the heat of the bed when the initial layers are printed. This is something thats inherent on all 3D printers and its not something that could be fixed with current commercial printers, hence why I personally remove the foot).
Parts that I plan to print for the initial goal (when applicable to specific rifles): -Rear and front sights -Stock butt plates -Stock take down plates -Mock recoil lugs -Rear and forward stock bands -Trigger guards and magazine plates
Structural notes and what I won't be supplying: Because of the aforementioned structural integrity concerns, I will not be printing sling rings, unless it is organic to another bit (like in case of the Kar98's front sling ring). I will not be offering cleaning rods, barrel band retaining springs, and outer barrels. They are too small and thin to even make a decent print, and the barrel is one part that really needs to be metal. Bolt handles need to be metal as well, and won't be supplied. I will not be supplying any sorts of screws, bolts, and nuts.
Design notes: These pieces WILL BE SIMPLIFIED WHEREEVER I CAN to keep end costs down and hair from being lost. I'd like to make things 100% accurate, but if you want that, its best to just get actual parts. This means that the 3-4 piece adjustable rear sights that can't slip over the VSR action, will be static 1 piece sights already printed to be ready to be adhered to the top of the VSR action. Airsoft guns can't go usually go past 300 feet, so there is no logical reason to make sights adjustable to shoot and targets 500 meters away. If a rifle's stock butt plate has a door that open, the door won't be able to open and will just be printed organically with the rest of the plate. The detail will be there, just not functional as a door. Also saves me the trouble trying to re-engineer the door and latches and find sources for small springs and such. There might be small design changes here and there, for stronger results.
Notes related to trigger guards and magazine plates: I'm thinking of making two types of trigger gaurds/mag plates: A single full piece one and; a mock mag plate where you would just need to carve out a section of the VSR stock and adhere it in.
Notes related to bolt shrouds: I am unsure of bolt shrounds right now. I'd like to make them, but I don't want them covering up the screw for the actual VSR shroud. I want to see what I could do with them, but I don't feel they are top of importance list.
Rifles I want to offer kits/pieces for. In order of what I feel is needed the most: -Kar98 -SMLE -1903 Springfield -Mosin Nagant -Lee Enfield No. 4
Common and/or more wanted rifles I won't work on: I won't be doing anything Garand related, we got a bunch of those on the market right now, and another forum member is working extremely hard on a G43 kit. It just wouldn't be right to steal his thunder like that.
Other notes: 3D printing a slow process. I won't be able to bust these out like a factory, so kits might take up to a week or so to do. Even if I get a second, and higher end printer, which I plan to do, but I also got other non-airsoft hobby projects I got going.
Other rifles: I'm willing to help with others, too. For example, if you wanted to build a Carcano or two, and you got the metal bits, you can send them to me and I could get them scanned up and printed for you.
Notes on the potential future goals: I MIGHT consider printing stock pieces for Hairy Apple's styles builds and with them create a near complete DIY kit. These won't be full stocks, but for example, if I'm able to print the forward part of a 1903 stock and the handguard and have it printed to already work with a VSR stock and system, I'm willing to give it a shot printing it and strength testing them. These DIY kits will require some basic skills of dremeling, epoxy/resin, and paint skills will be needed. Anything I said I wouldn't include before won't be included here. I also might consider making mock magazines like in case of SMLE. I want to look into making a simple block piece to fit into VSR magwell, that will allow builders and users to use those smaller (shotgun, IIRC) magazine that fit into the standard mag pouches of the time.
Pricing: I honestly have no idea at the moment. I will have a better idea once I start printing out parts and comparing material used to cost of the roll of filament. These should be significantly cheaper than the real thing, and since you will be getting the bulk of parts needed, it will save on shipping (as opposed to buying onesies and twosies from a lot of different people).
Timeline: I got my 3D-printer set up, but I still have to do some mods to it. I also have to find someone who could 3D scan parts. I want to start with the initial goal first for Kar98, SMLE, and 1903, and then start looking into potential other pieces for those rifles.
UPDATED:
Development and design theory and process: There is not a whole lot of engineering to do, and is a fairly straight forward process: 3D-scan -> get 3D model file -> print model -> test fit -> if doesn't fit/work, do whatever slight modifications to the model that is needed. Restart process at "print model" step. However, from what I've seen so far, slight sanding might be the only thing that needs to be done. Most of the time getting things ready for, I guess, "release" is the actual printing test pieces. I forsee most of the pieces working fine right off the print bed, with maybe a bit sanding on either the piece or stock its going on. This isn't as complicated or time consuming as the G43 and the FG-42 builds that tact2jager is doing. Which are more ground-up designs that requires a lot of skill and knowledge in 3D modeling and programming. He has to worry about precision alignment for moving parts and alignments of hopups, gearboxes, BB feeding tubes, etc etc. Which makes what he is doing more amazing! My goal is to simplify the process by adding parts onto already built and functional guns. Hence my focus on the Hairy Apple's method of just adding parts to a VSR-10 and modding parts of the stock for external aethestics, while the functionality remains unchanged. This is true for the M14->Garand conversions of 2ndBat's design as well.
Next post is my Project Update log!
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Nov 22, 2016 9:40:00 GMT -5
Project Log, 12-02-2016: I'm currently working on getting multiple printers set up. I know that sounds crazy... My first one, a Wanhao Duplicator i3 was under $400 and currently under modifications and repairs from personal errors; that drove me to get a second, real fancy one that limits human error, an Ultimaker 2 Extended + which is working like a dream; and there was an amazing Black Friday deal for an Monoprice 13860 Maker Select V2, which is a clone of the Wanhao with some of the more popular mods already installed, and its currently being calibrated and modded. To make it relate easier, the Ultimaker is like a Polarstar: Its expensive, but everything is ready to go out of the box, just some quick calibrations and test prints and it will start doing its thing perfectly. While the Wanhao/Monoprice are like Chinese AEG clones: They are cheap, and they work well, but takes a bit more care to set up and if you want them to perform like an higher end one, they will require modifications and upgrades. I've been printing out pieces for a cosplay prop rifle, Ana Amari's rifle from the game Overwatch (sorry its not WWII related): These parts are printed with a "dense" infill setting, and are very strong, and will be stronger in nGen. I now feel that printed stock pieces could very well be field worthy, in terms of strength. With this said, I'm going to turn back on what I said about Garands and go with Garand parts first for a M14 -> Garand mod AT FIRST. Since I can print out all the parts, and do mods on the M14 fast and easy enough. I might need to order a rear handguard band, but I will first try to see if the M14 one will work. The rear band isn't a part I want to print. It really needs metal to function properly. I COULD just print out a mock one, and have the builder just adhere the handguard to the receiver, but I really don't like that, as that will get in the way for taking the receiver apart for any repairs. New priority list: -Garand -Kar98 -SMLE -1903 Springfield -Mosin Nagant -Lee Enfield No. 4 This weekend, I'm going to drop off a bunch of parts for 3D scanning. All the Garand parts for an M14 conversion, Kar98 metal bits and handguard for a Hairy Apple's VSR-10 conversion, SMLE metal bits, and a M1 Carbine mag. The Garand will be simple enough, and should be able to move onto Kar98 easily once I get all three machines up and running. I'm going to play around with the idea of printed mags. Nothing ground up right now, but I want to see if I could print and build a mag for the cheap Cyma M1 Carbine. I know its going to be more expensive than just buying an extra "M2" Carbine mag, and shorten it yourself, but I want to see if its plausible at first and figure out where to source certain pieces (like small springs and really small screws). Not sure where I will go from there, though. Lastly, if any one has a chopped off front end of a Kar-98 stock, like from a DBoys stock, for a Hairy Apple's style conversion, and they wouldn't mind letting me borrow, I'd be willing to pay for shipping both ways and would be very grateful, as will others. I want to 3D-scan that part.
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adrg
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Post by adrg on Nov 22, 2016 11:02:36 GMT -5
Well, this is great news! Looking forward for some prices as well.
I am wondering if SVT 40 will also be considered. I won't have the guts to try a Mosin Nagant conversion based on what it looks, but I would definitely try to fit a SVD in a SVT -40 stock.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Nov 22, 2016 11:25:31 GMT -5
The only things I could potentially print for a SVT is the swiss cheesed barrel jacket and the handguard. There is a thread in one of the Technical sections where another member built a SVT 40 by dropping in a SVT into a stock he carved himself and a barrel jacket he made himself. I think this is the better option to go about making a SVT, in my opinion.
I guess I should say this now....I don't plan on doing anything like what the G43 project is doing.That is far beyond my skill range and not sure what could really be done that 3D printing could actually help with for WWII besides simple parts for bolt actions. I know machines and mortars and other weapons would be nice, but the base construction for those shouldn't be done with 3D printed materials.
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Post by tact2jager on Nov 22, 2016 11:41:40 GMT -5
Strength notes: They should be fine, as long as no direct impact or great strain on the peaces are placed. So, I only really see sights and sling joints being a problem with this. I do suggest against using slings with these. I know those are important part of the rifle, but I'm too afraid that when you have it slung, the weight of the rifle (especially if stock is full wood) will snap off the sling bit. Either the sling ring from the barrel band, sling-ring-to-stock piece like in case of the Kar98. Awesome! Glad more guys are getting into 3d printing, it really can change how things are made, and where they are made. Regarding strength of 3d printed parts, it can start with the materials used, but it also helps to have a solid design. To my surprise, the front band of the G43 held the sling and the weight of the weapon on my shoulder for 1 event (3 days) and I had no issues. That being said I expected to have to redesign it to include a metal part riveted to the body of the band, but there was no need. But I agreed, there are some things that cannot be 3d printed for function, instead purchase those parts and redesign the kits to make the best use of them. For example, I did not plan to 3d print the k98 cleaning rod, instead, I used it as a locking mechanism that helps connect everything together. The G43 rear sight is fragile but it was glued into place and I will be redesigning it to be stronger. It all depends on how you design it. I understand that the K98 has to be modded to become a good weapon in the field. I have not taken a look at this issue, but I'd be willing to help, if it helps the community. I did end up designing and printing a rear sight for a friends K98 build. K98 Rear Sight *BTW - Scanners are not perfect, and you may end up spending more time fixing up the model, keep that in mind when attempting to design for 3d printing. You might spend more time trying to fix an issue than design it from scratch. What printer did you get?
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Nov 22, 2016 11:55:46 GMT -5
That sounds really reassuring. I think that remaining skeptical a bit until I get these printed out to err on the side of cuation might be a good thing. Not saying you are wrong, but I once had a plastic sling ring completely rip out from its base on a G3 when I had slung over my shoulder and had the gun crash into the sand. Wasn't happy about that....but I hope it justifies being more cautionous toward this.
With the Kar98, there are two types of mods needed. The external mods to give it the Kar98 look, and then internal mods which use VSR-10 upgrade parts to make them field worthy and reliable. Those parts need to be good metal, or they will just break again. So, its not something worth 3D printing.
If there was a way I could get that file from you, that would be an amazing start! Also, thanks to Adrg, I might have a path for a Kar98k bolt shroud to mess with.
I understand scanners are not perfect, but most of the bits are simple and shouldn't cause too many issues. Alternatively and luckily, some of the programs are simple enough to build models from scratch.
I got a Wanhao Duplicator i3 printer. Pretty basic, but it has a good 8x8 printing area and it came packaged with a class that taught how to build, use, troubleshoot, and common upgrades.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 22, 2016 13:19:03 GMT -5
Exciting news. To have now at least two WW2 Airsoft enthusiasts who truly understand our hobby and the product gaps that we need who have jumped into the 3D printing arena is awesome. I know I am such a lucite that a regular copy machine befuddles me so the horror stories I heard about 3D printing challenges is enough to scare me off.
Good luck to you both!
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Post by tact2jager on Nov 22, 2016 14:07:44 GMT -5
That sounds really reassuring. I think that remaining skeptical a bit until I get these printed out to err on the side of cuation might be a good thing. Not saying you are wrong, but I once had a plastic sling ring completely rip out from its base on a G3 when I had slung over my shoulder and had the gun crash into the sand. Wasn't happy about that....but I hope it justifies being more cautionous toward this. With the Kar98, there are two types of mods needed. The external mods to give it the Kar98 look, and then internal mods which use VSR-10 upgrade parts to make them field worthy and reliable. Those parts need to be good metal, or they will just break again. So, its not something worth 3D printing. If there was a way I could get that file from you, that would be an amazing start! Also, thanks to Adrg, I might have a path for a Kar98k bolt shroud to mess with. I understand scanners are not perfect, but most of the bits are simple and shouldn't cause too many issues. Alternatively and luckily, some of the programs are simple enough to build models from scratch. I got a Wanhao Duplicator i3 printer. Pretty basic, but it has a good 8x8 printing area and it came packaged with a class that taught how to build, use, troubleshoot, and common upgrades. TBH if the user throws their rifle on the ground, the chances of something breaking is greater with ABS parts. But the good thing is: 1. We can print another part (cheap) 2. If a part continues to break in the same place for multiple parties, then we can redesign the part to be stronger 3. You can easily repair ABS with liquid ABS (ABS slurry) 4. ABS can be re-enforced with other materials (metal pins or re-bar inserts) As for strong upgraded parts for the K98, any 3d print can become metal if you can cast it. I have 2 tests waiting to be attempted (1 G43 rear sight and 1 other G43 test part). They are currently sitting in the cast and waiting to be metled out. (Im not set up for this but I have friends holding onto the molds). Anything can be done. www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C9aDXDIHvEI will consider sharing my work based on need & research Also, with gun part tolerances scanning could cause you a huge head ache, this is why (from the start) I suggest building everything from scratch. Even finding other 3d models on the net can cause a problem. Most often these 3d models are not built to be printed so it still takes time to adjust the model for printing and function. A good example of this is the 1:1 scale 1919A4. I found the model of the real thing, however, I have to remodel every part for ABS tolerances, (for me it's 0.5mm) so a lot of cutting and remodelling/redesigning has to be done. The Wanhao Duplicator i3 printer is not bad, I had my eye on it back in the day. But keep in mind ABS tends to warp so you will need an enclosure to help maintain the internal heat temp. If it's cold in the room your parts will warp 100% of the time. It also helps to use ABS slurry on the bed. Easy to clean, easy to make, easy to use. If you need help at all with anything 3d printing related shoot me a PM and I'd be happy to try and help. Cheers!
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adrg
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Post by adrg on Nov 22, 2016 14:32:02 GMT -5
Hi guys, Just to share my experience with ABS printed parts. I asked someone if he could do the end bolt shroud for K98 based on DBoys design. He was kind enough to charge me only for printing so I don't have the files. The print ended very good and looks quite nice with some sanding. But to be able to use it I had to reinforce with a metal pipe that is actually supporting the force when the bolt is pulled. So, this is something to take into consideration. Unfortunately I don't own the 3D models but I'll try to see if I can obtain it.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Nov 22, 2016 14:43:04 GMT -5
I will be using a copolymer filament, Color Fabb nGen. I won't be using ABS since I live in an apartment and fumes are a legit concern. With that said, I'm unable to cast it in metal personally. If the copolymer holds up fine, then I won't feel the need to cast parts in metal. If it turns out that metal casting becomes a must, then I will find someone who could do for pieces en masse. Hopefully not increasing the price too much...
2ndBat: Thanks!
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Nov 22, 2016 16:01:44 GMT -5
This all looks very promising and could substantially reduce the cost of bolt actions, increasing how many we see on the battlefield. Drac, do you think you could do up some kits for a Type 99/ Type 38 (stock pieces, butt plates, sights, etc.?)
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Nov 22, 2016 16:07:02 GMT -5
If I could borrow parts from them, I definitely could.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 23, 2016 1:46:27 GMT -5
I have done resin molded parts pulled from a silicon mold. There is way to mix fine metallic powder in the binary resin to create very convincing "metal" parts. This mettalic powder can replicate bronze, copper, iron, pasted and steel. I did some of my Garand Gas assembly parts using this technique. It was very hard to distinguish them from actual parts although clearly they had no where near the strength of an actual stainless steel part. The weight is close. In my case the added production time and added expense didn't pencil out as the cost closely rivalled what I could buy non serviceable actual parts for. This also greatly reduced my service life on my latex molds which is another factor to consider.
As I see the 3D printing you use it to create your original part and then use the latex molds for mass production. The 3 D printer is very time intensive where your latex molds can be knocking out parts fairly quickly.
The resin plastic parts have proven to be pretty robust. My recruit edition Garand had both hand guards, the complete gas assembly and the stock augmentation piece in resin plastic and with a few broken sites reported they have otherwise held up real well. The actual wood and steel parts of course created a much more impressive replica but low cost weighed against authenticity was always a consideration.
Good luck with all this. The videos on you tube are very helpful. I got all my supplies from TAP Plastic and found them very helpful. I never thought to use foam walls for my latex outer walls before pouring but what a great idea.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Dec 1, 2016 6:34:24 GMT -5
So, I've been printing out parts for a prop rifle (Ana's rifle from the game Overwatch), and with what I have printed, I feel that standard ColorFabb Brand PLA with a "dense" infill setting (on Cura 2.0) is creating some rather strong pieces. In non-nerd terms, I'm more than convinced can print field worthy stock parts, even more field worthy than the "metal" bits.
With this said, I decided to actually work on a Garand kit right off the bat. I know I said I wanted to avoid that, but I'm feeling really strongly about being able to print out field worthy stock pieces and "metal" bits that are all needed for a M14 conversion, and all for under $40 worth of material.
$40 for 3d printed parts + $100-$150 for a Cyma M14 = M1 Garands for under $200? Tell me it aint so!
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Post by brownien on Dec 1, 2016 7:59:55 GMT -5
I've also caught wind of a friend having a ton of out of spec, Garand gas cylinders. Being they won't work on the real guns, they're dirt cheap
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Post by tact2jager on Dec 1, 2016 10:32:13 GMT -5
Dracul, just be aware that PLA might soften up on a sunny day, or even melt if left in direct sunlight.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Dec 1, 2016 11:29:32 GMT -5
Yes, I'm fully aware.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 1, 2016 22:06:08 GMT -5
A side note Brownish. How cheap is dirt cheap on non serviceable gas assemblies? Keep in mind even if super cheap, stacking swivels, front sites locking lugs and locking nuts are needed as well, or does your buddy have full assemblies?
Drac,. With the S&T Garand so affordable do you think a Garand is a smart choice to pursue? I would think the Kar 98 bits needed to convert a VSR would be the ticket. Butt plate, receiver group bits, stock band,front and rear sites. Hand guard perhaps? The forearm is easy enough to make on ones own although providing all but the VSR base rifle would be wonderful.
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Post by hennepin15 on Dec 2, 2016 0:45:04 GMT -5
Truthfully I was really excited about the kar98, Smle hardware. Especially items like leaf sights, nose caps. Still whatever you choose to do, thank you for taking time to enrich our hobby.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Dec 2, 2016 6:31:28 GMT -5
Business wise? No, probably not, and I hope their Garand is successful enough. Design wise? The Garand will be the easiest to have a "full kit" on, when compared to Kar98 and such. Would include metal bits and handguards, and I'd probably include a rod for under the front handguard. It will also be rather simple for the builder. At most just chop off that portion of the M14 stock, and do a matching paint job on all stock pieces. Assembly is extremely easy and the least amount of actual work when compared to other mods. With this said, it will be the easiest to test out in house (well, apartment), and I have a fresh new Cyma M14 on order to do just this.
Although, the one metal piece I won't be able to print will be the rear handguard band. I could, techincally, but it won't function like it. So, I'd prefer a metal band (insert Judas Priest joke here). I could make a mock one, and have the builder just adhere it on the receiver, but I really don't like that method.
Also, I just decided to start with the Garand, I'm not dismissing my other plans for Kar98's and Enfields and whatever else. They will come immediately after. I'll be dropping off parts to get 3D-scanned this weekend. This will include Garand stock and metal bits pieces, Kar98 metal bits and handguard, SMLE metal bits, and a shortened M1 Carbine mag. It will, however, take awhile to get "chopped off" front ends of Kar98's and others ready to be tinkered around with. Its really just a matter of getting parts like that in the first place.
With this said, if anyone has a D-Boy's Kar98 front end they cut off for a Hairy Apples style conversion they don't mind letting me borrow to get it 3D-scanned, I'd be willing to pay for shipping both ways to borrow it. It would be of great help.
I probably should have explained this more earlier, but since I'm just getting parts 3D-scanned, there is not a whole lot of engineering to tinker around with, and is fairly straight forward: 3D-scan -> get 3D model file -> print model -> test fit -> if doesn't fit, do whatever slight modifications to the model that is needed. Restart process at "print model" step. Most of the time getting things ready for, I guess, "release" is the actual printing test pieces. I forsee most of the pieces working fine right off the print bed, with maybe a bit sanding on either the piece or stock its going on. This isn't as complicated or time consuming as the G43 and the FG-42 build that tact2jager is doing.
Side note, the M1 Carbine mag was a recent idea I had to add to the mix. It won't be financially sound, since the "M2" banana mags get stupid cheap and the coversion to the proper "M1" mag is simple to DIY, I want to play around with the idea of printing mags, and I think thats a good start. Not really sure where it will go, though. Maybe better M14-Garand mags? Not sure. Still got that idea of making a spacer for a VSR-10 mag well, so its easier to use those shorter shot gun mags that fit in Mauser pouches.
Updated the first and second post, which will now will be used for my update log.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2016 16:41:51 GMT -5
For the M14 to M1 conversion can't the kit buyer just use the same handguard clip from their donor M14? Maybe I'm missing something here. Also I discovered late in my production/ sales process that shortening the M14 heat shield and covering it in a self adhesive Walnut veneer creates a very nice substitute for an actual lower hand guard which tends to be expensive.
I suspect you'll be able to make a nice complete Garand Gas assembly which would be a big saving for a conversion project. It might also be something easily tweaked to enhance the ICS Garands appearance.
flush mounted higher capacity Garand clips for the conversions would be nice.
Great seeing you jump into this!
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Dec 2, 2016 17:29:38 GMT -5
You aren't missing anything, that is what I hope to find out! Really hoping one could just use the M14 clip. Would greatly aid in the whole thing.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2016 17:54:05 GMT -5
You have to dremel a notch in the M14 receiver group up where it meets the barrel but that is easy enough to do. The M1 hand guard has to be modified slightly as well in order for the M14 band to work. Obviously if you're creating this handguard anyway that's easy enough to set up.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Dec 6, 2016 9:18:33 GMT -5
Update from the weekend.
I dropped off parts to get 3D scanned, and my guy should be able to get some parts scanned in, but some of the parts will need to have models built from the ground up. I was given info of some people who could recreate the parts as 3D models. While I could learn 3D modeling myself, I'd rather outsource it to someone is known to be good.
With said, does anyone have sources (book, website, or whatever) that shows exact measurements for parts for these rifles? Garand, Kar98, etc etc. I could send in parts to get measured and recreated, but having exact measurements would make it easier for modeler and more exact models.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 21, 2016 21:52:23 GMT -5
What measurements would you like from a Garand as I have them all? To be candid I shortened slightly the lower handguard on my conversions so the original M14 barrel would work with no extension (other than an added barrel tip slipped over the brass inner barrel tip from the CYMA 032). This slight alteration offset the slightly longer length of the M14 buttstock vs an M1 Garand and left the overall length correct.
If you think my assembly manual for my kit might help you let me know as I'm pretty sure I have one or two laying around? I think there is still a market for the kit components to do a conversion if the price point is low enough especially if you can do up some flush mounted double stacked clips say 20 to 25 rounds or so? He'll those would no doubt have an immediate market audience. ME!
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Dec 22, 2016 5:59:53 GMT -5
I'd need measurements for all the parts, but the thing is, I'd need exact, precise measurements, down to fractions of a MM. So, a 3D modeler could indeed be able to recreate them exact and "by the book" Or hell, even precise measurements, its something that I might be able to do myself. I'm still waiting on some file to be kicked back to me so I could show something, but all I got for now is some hope, haha. Magazines might be easily possible. I'm trying to locate an airsoft 3D-printing group, I've seen a lot of airsoft stuff go on with standard 3D printing communities, and some really cool stuff, too. Unforunately its mostly modern. But I'm hoping someone has a simple M14 magazine model some where. If I could get one, I have enough modeling skill where I could easily cut it down (in similar fashion to the M2 Carbine mags), and do what I can to lower the profile. Oddly enough, I've come across various other accessories and such that might be usable, or at least interesting. I've found some period knives and bayonets, some helmets, grenades, a trench club, and even a few non-shooting but "functional" props where you could pull back the action(s) remove the mag, and assemble sort of like the real thing. I know non-firing gun props isn't what this hobby needs, but I've found it interesting and might print some out myself. However, whats a real interesting model I've come across, and I think it might be able to fill a wanted gap, is one of those non-firing M1928 Thompsons, with the charging handle up top. I'd be willing to mess with that and see if I could adapt it for airsoft Thompsons. Also, I found a new material I'm excited to try out, its called HTPLA by Proto-Pasta. Tech-babble: Its a material, that when you finish a print, you stick it in the oven and particles in the material with heat up and mend with the surrounding PLA resulting in a stronger and much more heat resistant print, and could be stain-able like wood. In our terms: Its a stronger PLA, that won't morph shape in hotter days, and could be stained to match other stock pieces (if the print itself is a stock piece). Some few examples of what I came across and found interesting: Non-firing Luger P-08: www.myminifactory.com/object/p08-luger-functional-assembly-5545Non-firing M1928 Thompson: www.myminifactory.com/object/p08-luger-functional-assembly-5545Trench Club (head): www.myminifactory.com/object/ww1-trench-club-24560M1918 Trench Knife: www.thingiverse.com/thing:157130Canadian Ross Rifle Bayonet: www.thingiverse.com/thing:704976
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 22, 2016 17:13:03 GMT -5
It sounds like Droopailles from France has a file for a flush mounted M14 to M1 conversion using the shotgun design but with midcap width channels. None of the existing M14 mags internals are laid out properly once shortened to transfer to facilitate our needs. The 70 round stubby midcap comes closest but still protrudes
The trench knife was a popular item with US paratroopers and Rangers.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 9, 2017 15:45:56 GMT -5
Drac,
What's the latest on all of this? I would be willing to lend you a Garand gas assembly and could do up a proper M1 Garand stock and hand guards modified for use with an unmodified base M14 if it's something you could use to create your files. The builder would have to do a few simple things to their base M14 but really not much!
Likewise I would be willing to send you Kar 98 bits for replication set up for a VSR conversion. Great ready market for that! Other thoughts I had for 3D printing was a facade belt buckle that perhaps could fasten over a East German buckle or even modern snap clasps. German badges field award stuff?
Really anxious to see 3D printing pay off for our hobby!
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Apr 10, 2017 5:13:43 GMT -5
Still in my mind, with intentions on this. Things have been whacking me kind of hard as of late.
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Post by CPL. Mills 2nd Rangers on Apr 10, 2017 17:38:11 GMT -5
Would you be able to make clips for the Marushin M1 Garand?
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