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Post by volkssturm on Mar 6, 2017 20:08:47 GMT -5
It looks like the A&K M1's are available at Evike, $299. No sign of the spare mags yet.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 5, 2017 14:30:25 GMT -5
They currently have them discounted to $229.00 with spare magazines (apparently in stock) at $9.95 each. My pre ordered A & K Garand keeps getting pushed back so it now shows a June ETA (it was originally supposed to show up in April). This is not uncommon so at this point I'm not worried about it. I did go ahead and add six spare mags to the order. Still keeps my cost under $300.00 which is amazing for a real wood M1 AEG.
Once I get it I'll be able to do a complete side by side comparison with the ICS, GnG , 2ndBat conversion and this new A&K. Who would have dreamed we'd one day have so many choices Each unique and NOT outright clones of one another which is what I thought was going to happen.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 15, 2017 16:03:32 GMT -5
The good news about three legitimate commercial choices (GnG, ICS and A&K) is that choices and competition is available which as seen with the A&K drives prices down. The bad news is with three companies chasing a niche market each might feel the financial pain of that competition furthering manufacturers reluctance to cater to our needs.
Hopefully sales of all three do well enough to justify the design and engineering that went into each. Otherwise gaps like a proper carbine AEG, SVD, G43 and skirmishable bolt action main rifle won't ever come out. For years our biggest gap was the ubiquitous M1 Garand as an AEG which lead me to develope the 2ndBat M14 to M1 compromise. I never imagined that it would essentially fill that Gap for 10 years! I believed at most perhaps three. Amazingly when I pretty much thought no one was going to go there 3 different companies with three entirely different internal designs jumped in. This is so cool for our hobby. Hopefully buyers are supporting these companies. It's doubtful all three will remain so it's going to be interesting to see which do. I am anxious to do a full on side by side appearance, performance, durability, ease of maintenance and cost comparison.
For loaners I'm still most comfortable with my 2ndBat conversions but mostly just because I know I can easily fix them if they go down. For appearance the GnG is stellar but hasn't made readily available affordable spare clips (also tricky to reload). The ICS is a bit wonky in appearance but is very field worthy (hard shooter, easy to reload and soldiers on even after 10,000 rounds). This A&k should fall somewhere in between but at a bargain price. All are superior to what I produced at less money! I'd love to think my presence helped to encourage GnG, ICS and A&K to come out with theirs. I truly think a well done AEG carbine because of it's small size would have an even broader appeal both within and outside the WW2 community. No doubt like the CYMA Springer they'd probably offer an M2 not realizing the nuances.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 13, 2017 13:04:18 GMT -5
Still no word on shipments from Evike on the pre ordered A&K Garands. My initial pre order was supposed to arrive in April, then May, now June. Hopefully it will arrive soon. I have been patient but my patience is wearing thin. The upside is spare magazines are now available and should be coming. I'll do a comparison article on the ICS, GnG, 2nd Bat conversion (I have a little experience with them) and the new A&K.
I hope it arrives soon as I leave on another series of trips starting next week!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 15, 2017 13:45:56 GMT -5
Got an email from Evike saying that based on information from A & K they are still expecting a June arrival but of course asking for patience should deliveries slip a bit. With imports so many factors can contribute to delays way outside of the distributor or retailers control.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Jun 16, 2017 4:21:11 GMT -5
Yeah, they are pretty bad at this at times. I placed an back in September, with somethings that were on back order until October....didn't receive them until February.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 16, 2017 13:38:12 GMT -5
Volks got his with the initial batch and has had several months to enjoy it. There really is no logical sense of urgency but I have to admit I am quite anxious to get it.
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Post by volkssturm on Jun 17, 2017 21:35:32 GMT -5
I loaned mine out to a young guy to test out in some games. So far he's said the velocity seems to be inconsistent. Sometimes the BB's drop short. The mags are a little finicky to get out (I noticed that too. I was thinking maybe a thumb groove in the stock would be worthwhile). The wiring harness is short. It's easy to accidentally pull the contact off the fuse.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 17, 2017 23:17:37 GMT -5
I installed finger grooves in my ICS Garand and will probably do the same on my A & K. Hopefully I won't have velocity inconsistencies which sounds like maybe a hop up issue?
My ICS has been such a strong, consistent and great shooter that there is a pretty high standard to measure up to. It seems like wiring is either too short and hard to access or way way too long and hence hard to stuff into the room provided without pinching wires.
In my own M14 Garand conversions I usually remove the fuses to provide more space and make room for full sized batteries.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 30, 2017 0:21:25 GMT -5
No direct notice from Evike but I noticed that they're already pushed back from April pre-delivery to "June" is now set at "September". Since I didn't hear anything it must mean my rifle is due any day and that my batch of pre ordered rifles were sold out in transit. Or I have three more months of them sitting on my money and their customer service too sucky to let me know!
Long time to tie up my dough!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 1, 2017 22:43:49 GMT -5
Since it's now July and no rifle has shown up obviously they haven't bothered to proactively inform me about further push back but instead apparently just leave it to me to notice via their web site that their Delivery which was pushed back to June is NOW pushed back to September. Pretty disappointing customer handling EVIKE.
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Post by volkssturm on Jul 2, 2017 0:22:05 GMT -5
Well, that is definitely not encouraging. I did as little searching to see if it's available anywhere, including some of the usual HK sites. Nobody seems to be offering it. This is a bad sign. Maybe I should get back to finishing that M14 conversion I was working on. I can probably sell it.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 3, 2017 19:50:22 GMT -5
The more I look at the stock the wonkier it looks. Volks send me what you've got via the M14/ M1 conversion and I'll finish her up for you as partial repayment for all the awesome things you've done for me over the years. Based on past projects you're probably closer to being done than you think.
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adrg
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Post by adrg on Jul 5, 2017 1:58:00 GMT -5
Well, chinese suppliers are not the most reliable. Sometimes they are just not delivering the year they promised. I hope this will appear soon on the market.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 5, 2017 2:31:00 GMT -5
The initial batch from four months ago got shipped and people have had them in their hands now for sometime. The gun exists which is encouraging. In fact from initial announcement to arrival was incredibly brief by Airsoft standards. Obviously there is some sort of production or distribution hiccup. Wish Evike was more transparent with the pre order customers even if it was an email apologizing and saying they don't KNOW what's going on.
I once waited a year on an Airsoft Club M14 way back in the day before anyone else made one. I had them a year and a half before Marui came out with theirs and then three years until multiple Chinese Companies cloned them.
Incredible to see three completely unique M1 Garand AEGs. $229.00 is an amazing deal on a real wood version. Spare clips at $9.00 each. I guess I'll sit on the order till September and keep my fingers crossed.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 8, 2017 0:39:12 GMT -5
Well I guess I spoke too soon about Evike! I just got a shipping notification for my rifle and six spare clips. Obviously all of this batch of rifles were pre sold prior to arrival. I feel much better now on several levels. 1 I haven't been completely ignored and arbitrarily pushed back 3 more months on a pre order that was already four months in the hopper. 2 this product is obviously selling well which bodes well for our hobby and 3 I should soon be able to do a side by side comparison of the GnG, 2ndBat Conversion (I'll try to be unbiased) the ICS and this inexpensive A & K. m1 Garand AEG. Having so many choices has literally been a 20 plus year dream situation that I never imagined I'd live to see.
Perhaps...just perhaps there will be a skirmishable Springer Kar98 and a viable WW2 AEG Carbine while I'm still up right!
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Jul 8, 2017 2:13:57 GMT -5
when did you get a g&g?
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adrg
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Post by adrg on Jul 8, 2017 4:05:14 GMT -5
I am glad this is on the way! In Eu this is around 300EU -coming a little too close to the ICS. So I am looking forward for the comparison!
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Post by volkssturm on Jul 8, 2017 12:34:53 GMT -5
Evike is still showing them as pre-order for September, at $224.95 (a very good price). Promising.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 8, 2017 13:08:59 GMT -5
Indeed. The price with six spare clips was under $300.00 which I find quite amazing. Should they offer an "economy" model with a faux wood stock that could conceivably come down even further.
I depart tomorrow for a two week business trip so my prediction is it will arrive on Monday. I don't have a GnG (refused to buy it unless spare clips were available and affordable) but do have one I can borrow for the comparison.
I have 3 2nd Bat conversions ranging from the recruit edition (all ABS) to actual walnut Garand hardware and mostly actual parts. My ICS is extensively modified so not fully recognizable as an ICS as it would arrive.
The comparison would emphasize appearance, authenticity, performance, skirmishability and cost. Durability is subjective to a degree as I have had unbelievably good luck with my ICS where I know others may not have. Obviously the A & K will be too new to evaluate in that regard unless of course it is dead on arrival or fails shortly thereafter. I am no gunsmith so I won't be taking these apart to show disassembly. I will leave that to others. Honestly I think the reason I have overall had such great luck with most things airsoft related is my philosophy is if it's not broken...just keep it clean, store it properly and pull the battery out before it runs down.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 14, 2017 23:06:45 GMT -5
I was on a business trip this week but got home today to a large box which arrived last Tuesday. Not a June delivery as promised in the pre order but close enough. As expected it was well packed with both a large outer box and a display type inner cardboard box. The six spare magazines were individually packaged in thick, clear plastic with a cardboard logo's flap on top. The rifle came with a small bag of BBs, an unjamming rod, a speed loader and a small flat head screw driver and two different sized, small hex wrenches. Like Volks mine came with no owners or instruction manual which is a first for me with a new gun purchase. Function seems pretty straight forward but time will tell. Hop up APPEARS to be accessed by pulling the bolt back (it pulls back about an inch). This exposes what looks like a ribbed spiral knob which can be spun a little. No arrows or anything and nothing says hop up so.....? Operation will tell. Since I had no batteries charged firing tests will hold off till tomorrow.
The gun is heavy. The correct 9 1/2 pounds. My initial reaction was That it was heavier than the ICS but it turns out I've just forgotten how heavy IT is. My 2ndBat M14 conversions are 7 1/2 pounds so no doubt that's what my brain was registering on. Relative to most airsoft guns these Garands are a work out during a day long battle.
Visually the real wood is always a nice touch but I will no doubt feel compelled to sand it down and re stain it. The finish is just too slick, too uniformly new and to me airsoft combat weapons never look right until they are aged a bit. The stain is a dark brown with a slightly reddish tint. With the ICS I felt I needed to add a couple of coats of Linseed oil to darken it while on this A &K I think I'll want it a bit lighter. I'm hoping once sanded down and restained the wood will show more grain and more character. The metal is uniformly black throughout and this will soon be redone to show representative field patina.
The stock shape as you can tell from the advertising pictures is a bit wonky. The stock is thinner and more M14-like than a Garand in front of the mag base. The ICS conversely is too thick and exaggeratedly bulbous. The GnG is virtually spot on with regard to shape and dimensions. The early 2ndBat stocks prior to the augmentation piece look a lot like the A & K stock. Perhaps more distracting is the rounded hand grip area. I will see if this can be sanded down without overly compromising the strength here. None of these infidelities are horrible by any stretch and if it shoots and feeds great it can easily be overlooked given the affordable price point.
As mentioned in Volks review the selector switch from semi to full auto is odd. But subtle enough in my book. The gas assembly looks right when compared with a real Garand. The ICS is slightly too stubby while otherwise over sized. The GnG and A & K have the right gap between the barrel and gas assembly. The 2nd Bat of course is correct as it uses a real albeit demilled gas assembly. The sling hardware is correct on all but the ICS that are strangely WAY oversized. No clue what brought that about?
The wiring harness in the A&K seems flimsy and cheap relative to the other three comparison Garand AEGs. Whether this will have any impact of durability is too soon to know. In the pictures I was expecting a flimsy and cheapish magazine further supported by the low price. In reality I'm impressed with the weight and build quality. While others have complained about difficulty getting them out for quick reloads mine pop out and slide in seamlessly. A the bolt release button on the real gun serves as a mag release (as on the G n G). Unlike the G n G which is challenging to load. The A & K slides in and loads seamlessly. The ICS is a bit awkward to UNLOAD. I cut thumb grooves in the stock as on my personal 2ndBat conversions to ease unloading. The A & K thus far seems the easiest of the four.
I will get it out for close range and long range testing tomorrow. Stay tuned.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 15, 2017 13:43:22 GMT -5
Batteries charged, mags loaded. "Ready on the right, ready on the left, ready on the firing line..."
My initial magazine double fed virtually every round with one round soaring from the back spin and the other essentially dropping 30 feet ahead. My suspicion was that the hop up arrived set too tight for the .20 gram BBs it came with. With no owners manual a little guess work was required. I pulled back the bolt and initially tried pushing the knurled nut down and to the right. (No slack here so I correctly guessed that it was fully tightened. I then twirled it left several twist with the idea if it is the hop up I'll start with none and gradually engage it until satisfied for .20 gram BBs (level flight). My suspicions were correct (the large knurled nut hidden by the closed bolt is indeed the hop up). It took a couple twists from fully disengaged (and no double feeds) before it began putting back spin on the BBs. About 3/4 twist later it was set perfectly. Nice, powerful, level flight and no double feeds. I went through all seven of my magazines with no issues. I adjusted hop up and tested numerous weights of BBs finding for this rifle .28 grams are the ideal. Heavy enough to resist cross winds, punch through brush and still fire hard (consistently around 365 FPS). With .20 gram it chrono'd at 411-416 fps.
My performance testing leaves me impressed. Mags popped in and out seamlessly (the best of any of the Garand AEGs). The wiring concerns me and clearly changing batteries will be a delicate process if I'm going to prevent kinks or breaks.
One of the mags did not feed as well as all the others. Some empty shots and lots of discharged, loose BBs in the mag well. I'll try to get to the bottom of that. It would have been upsetting had that been the only mag. Note that it arrived with the hop up over tightened (airsoft guns should start out upon arrival with hop up fully off to avoid jams right out of the chute and to facilitate gradual adjustment.
This gun should be a great skirmisher. Far too long and heavy for the typical weekend skirmish but powerful and accurate enough to fill the Marksman role. The Sights have minimal (if any) elevation adjustment. And there are only a couple clicks of windage. No WW2 site locks (none needed but it would have been a nice detail). Likewise the locking lug and handguard band are late war versions (again nitpicking observations). For our hobby those little touches would have been great and wouldn't have cost one nice more to produce.
I will continue to torture test it and once satisfied will set about altering the cosmetics.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 16, 2017 21:57:23 GMT -5
Put a couple more hundred rounds through it. All AEGs drop a few rounds when you change mags but are typically quite uniform in how many fall out (usually 3 or 4 rounds). This is caused by a gap between the BBs in the magazine not quite making it to the tappet plate to push the BBs into the chamber. They rest in the feed tube and drop out when you unload. These mags tend to be inconsistent about how many BBs are going to fall out. Usually it's 3 but sometimes far more.
It's important to insure there aren't and loose BBs in the magwell and due to the mag design there are additional areas where BBs might decide to linger. I didn't experience any causing snags or blocking anything but I can definitely see it happening. There also seems to be a pattern where 2 or three BBs at the top of the magazine don't want to feed. This means an otherwise 36 round magazine will probably feed 28 to 31 rounds. I'm fine with that but think buyers ought to know. The ICS touts a 42 round magazine but in all practicality it is 28 to 30. The GnG is consistently 18 and the 2nd Bat depends on what magazine design you go with but range from about 12 feeds out of each modified shotgun magazine. (not quite enough in my book). for airsoft magazine feeds I like 3 rounds out of a magazine for every real capacity. Hence an 8 round Garand clip should feed 24 in the airsoft iteration. A 20 round BAR magazine should feed 60. This still makes for plenty of reloads but makes up somewhat for the lack of punch through bushes.
I'll continue to torture this A & K and will keep you posted. The Hardest shooter is the ICS followed by the A & K which are both over 400 fps then the GnG and the stock 2ndBats which shoot .20 grams at around 365 fps.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 22, 2017 0:02:40 GMT -5
Home from my latest trip and popped through all seven magazines with no problems. (200 plus rounds). Again noticed that one of the mags once the rifle started dry firing dropped six or eight rounds instead of the normal 2 or three when I reloaded the next clip. Almost all left one BB at the top of the clip.
Changing clips remains quick and seamless. Push the release button and the clips practically pop out. Sliding the next clip in is easily done by feel alone. The GnG is quite awkward to reload and my 2nd Bat Garands can also require turning upside down and careful focus during reloads. I like to be able to reload without having to take my focus off what's happening downrange. With very little practice I'm able to do that with the A & K...( Big win for the A & K). The accuracy and range with .28s is impressive. This is the best skirmisher M1 Garand in my opinion. Wish it looked as good as the G n G but the next adventure with this rifle will be to see what I can do about that.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 24, 2017 2:10:00 GMT -5
When I am home for more than a weekend I will tackle this cosmetically. The stock needs a little more shape the neck area (handgrip area) needs to be sanded down, the wood needs to be refinished and the metal all around needs a little field "patina". In addition I'll Add fake sight locks, a stamped handguard clip and a single slot locking bolt for a nice early war look.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 1, 2017 21:49:18 GMT -5
So before departing I started in on this cosmetically. The thin stock in front of the mag is absolutely M14 like. It reminds me of my original 2ndBat conversions before I started adding the augmentation piece. Makes me wish I still had one of these pieces laying around. Fabricating from nothing is sloppy work, time consuming and never comes out perfect. As with the early ones I did I'll start by placing numerous screws into the stock to create the outline I'm looking for with the resin paste and to act as anchor points and a sort of rebar for strength and stronger adhesion. Instead of dynaglass I am going to use a wood resin filler which once sanded down might blend better with the real wood and hopefully take a stain sort of. My very first step will be to sand down and remove to bare wood all the current stain. I'd love it if there was some sort of grain exposed in the wood but I suspect it will be a plain vanilla ash. It seems that the overly pronounced neck grip area can be reduced to a more authentic shape without compromising the strength too much. (Hopefully). Once that's tackled we'll work on creating a field worn look patina on all the metal work. There are patterns of wear on fielded Garands that are remarkably consistent so I will replicate that.
The stain through the augmented area will never blend exactly but this area frequently showed a darker discoloration as does the stock neck due to oils from the rifleman's hands. Much darker than the rest of the stock. This hopefully will help hide the alteration. Just as I cringe at my early conversions I am having a tough time looking at this A & K as it came out of the box. The cosmetic work will be quite different than what was called for on the ICS but my prediction is they will be about the same amount of work. Neither will come out perfect but both will be vastly improved.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Aug 2, 2017 9:37:19 GMT -5
Thats good to see this one is off to a good start, but I think it would really be killer if they made a cheaper version with a plastic stock. If they could get the price down to $200, that would be one of the best things for the hobby. Next to a VSR-10 based Kar98.
Can you tell us about the internals of it? Is the gearbox proprietary, or is it a clone of the Ver7 or any of the other proprietary Garand/M14 gearboxes?
From what it sounds like so far, is that it was built as a M14, but with Garand cosmetics. Instead of a ground-up Garand or clone of those.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 4, 2017 17:16:14 GMT -5
Maybe this is just my ego kicking in but I think they bought one of my early conversions and came up with a more elegant magazine and feed system incorrectly assuming that the stock shape was correct. I sold my completed conversions all over the world and anxiously await an order into Asia. When finally I had a sale into both Hong Kong and Taiwan I was relatively confident (and hopeful) that one of the companies would be inspired to refine it and serve it up. I think maybe that A & K did. (Warts and all unfortunately)
It looks to me to be a version 7 gear box. I don't recognize the hop up. Understand that internal airsmith work has never been my deal.
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Post by volkssturm on Aug 5, 2017 11:05:23 GMT -5
Wouldn't that be a hoot?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 5, 2017 15:48:38 GMT -5
No other reason I can think of for them to get it so wrong. Probably getting their hands on a Real Garand was impossible so they acquired one of my early conversions. Whatever happened it's a pitty they came out with such a wonky looking lower stock.
I have started in on the cosmetic tweaking which in my head I always think will be easy only to discover it's harder or more time consuming then I expect. I will take pictures as I go.
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