adrg
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Posts: 210
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Post by adrg on Feb 9, 2021 1:13:29 GMT -5
Glad to hear this was successful! Quite a bit of extra work but it's worth it.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Feb 9, 2021 20:50:10 GMT -5
I was really sweating it. With all of these custom conversions the trickiest parts almost always involve the feed system. These stubby mags still protrude beneath the Garands but only half as much as they did with way more capacity. For the SKS the mag protrudes a tiny amount and on the G43 they do not protrude at all. I am hopeing I can shave the internals of the donor M14 magazines so the m16 cut down high caps will slide in. This will provide a cleaner more polished look than what I fabricated on this first one but so far that's a work in progress.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Feb 6, 2022 21:40:25 GMT -5
Since this initial endeavor I secured one of the full sized CYMA/ UKARMs M14s and after about 10 hours spread out over a week just finished the conversion process into another Garand. (A much better base gun to use.). Of these initial 4 I ended up doing two Garands,a G43 and an SKS. I sold the G43 and one of the Garands and kept one Garand and the SKS which I will use as loaner/ props. The sales of the two guns more than paid for the funds required to build all four so that works. My biggest regret on the DE M305Fs aside from them being 3/4 scale is that you cant get spare mags for them. The full sized, full length M14s will be my future donors if I can source them cheaply.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Feb 9, 2022 21:04:54 GMT -5
In checking around on prices for airsoft springer M14s the smaller Desert Eagle or the Cyma/ UKARMS full sized springers there is a wide variety of prices for both. On most sites the full length/ full sized M14s are sold out. I have seen them range from $106.95 to $55.00 the little DE M305s are as low as:$31.00. The tiny ST44s (which arent horrible are as low as $18.00! It just goes to show that it pays to shop.around. Typically even at these bargain basement prices if you place an order over $100.00 or in some cases $150.00 shipping is free. When my "rat hole " account of fun money builds up I am definitely placing another bulk order. In shooting my full sized springer Garand and the 3/4 scale. For backyard plinking I actually like the smaller one better! (Wish I could get spare magazines for them!)
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Feb 14, 2022 13:21:47 GMT -5
People (not me so far but both my Garand and G43 customers) are expressing feed issues with the magazines I converted to high caps. I will swap out the ones I have that work fine for me and then hope I can fix whatever issues their modified magazines were having. If I cant and if I cant source replacement or spare mags these little "Garands" SKS and G43 are wall hangers Yikes! The smaller DE M14 magazine has an elevated lip so instead of pushing the BB up into the chamber the top BB once the mag is inserted is in place. The good news is there is no BB drop. The bad news (apparently) is you're marrying a totally different top to a completely different bottom. If spare mags become available I probably wont do the mag conversions and just tolerate the protruding mags. Incidently so far the 120 spring is holding?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 30, 2022 18:44:42 GMT -5
Never did find spare magazines for the DE 3/4 scale M14s that I used for conversions but I sold the worst shooting ones on Ebay as poof poof guns (prop guns that shoot talc powder out of the muzzle.) That way I could keep their magazines for use as spare mags with my "keepers". Oddly enough as mere props they sold pretty well. Not enough to justify the build time but certainly more than enough to bust me out of the materials costs and provided me with extra magazines. Sales and rentals means I am in the plus column dollar wise on the springer armory which means I can afford to rent/ loan them out and not worry so much if they break. Thus far they have been holding up real well.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 5, 2023 21:54:04 GMT -5
The DE 3/4 scale that I upgraded to a stronger spring just broke. Probably got 500 rounds fired through it? My guess is the seer that held the piston back when cocked is what broke. Since they are not disassemble capable It will go on sale as a prop Garand. The larger and some what more expensive UKARMS springers thus far are holding up great. I had reinforced the plastic inner parts in hopes that they would prove robust but not totally suprised they ultimately failed. The same was true on a carbine springer I tried a stronger spring in. The good news I guess is they provided cheap rental guns for a number of events before failing and I now have another spare magazine for my one remaining DE converted M1 Garand.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 25, 2023 16:33:24 GMT -5
Several of the full sized M14 to Garand Conversions and the 3/4 scale DE conversion have now seen use in multiple events and continue to soldier on effectively. Most have had minor things break. Most commonly the sling hardware and front site. Both are easy fixes. Since all were rushed into production a lot of fine details were skipped in the interest of production haste and volume. This was especially true of the less expensive DEs which literally cost $30.00 shipped! For the larger more correct scaled CYMA based guns which in bulk I got for $50.00 each and spare magazines for just $5.00 along with a generous donation from Volks I have taken some extra time to clean up the look while in the process of repairs and they now all look quite impressive. All but one remain fully operational. (I sold the broken one as a prop gun). For the DE smaller conversions I have just one left. It has been especially good. A harder shooter right out of the box and I love the lighter weight. I have however been bothered by its noticeably stubbier appearance.
The base M14 was just 34" long (a full 10" shorter than an M1 Garand). In the process of the conversion I added a couple inches to the butt stock. I lengthened the barrel as far as I though possible and ended up just shy of 39" long. It looks decent unless directly beside a correct scale replica. Now with a little time on my hands and because I really like the way it shoots I've decided to enhance it further. I found an appropriate ABS tube with slightly larger than 6mm interior that I can use to extend the barrel another 3 inches without impeding the flight of the BBS. That doesn't sound like a lot but it will allow me to lengthen the upper handguard an inch or so (which will be visually more correct) and lengthen the gas assembly and locking lug by two inches which will make it almost identical to an original. The replica currently uses the original DE M14 front sight which lacks authenticity. The new length will allow me to install a correct looking M1 front sight and a convincing looking locking lug. It's all quite trivial really and will constitute a weekends effort but I think for me the end result will be worth it.
Chauk it up to boredom and not knowing enough to leave well enough alone. I also have some thoughts about flush mounted magazines but unless spare magazines become available I don't want to risk modifying the 5, 13 round magazines I have for it. the magazines' upper feed channel is similar to the elevated nub on the CYMA springers. The good news is all the BBs feed. The bad news is the marriage to any other magazine is trickier than just chopping out a middle section. I'm thinking that adding to the top of the 18 round short shotgun magazines could work? At the very least I'd like to have one magazine that is flush mounted for pictures. I've written Airsoft GI, Evike and checked with my buddy at Tacoma Tactical and so far no luck sourcing these DE M14 springer magazines. Every airsoft gun should offer readily available spare magazines!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 26, 2023 17:42:56 GMT -5
The time spent enhancing the finer details on my full sized M14 springers to M1 Garands was well worth it. I originally built these as somewhat hasty stand in rifles and cut corners creating a rough approximation. I have been happy with them but close inspections conducted during minor repairs highlighted numerous opportunities to improve their overall look. These relatively simple details really helped their overall appearance. The one remaining under sized DE 503 conversion that I hung onto began looking more and more dispraportioned especially with the others looking better. So this weekend I took on the job of tweaking it to come closer to the correct shape. At 39" it was almost a full five inches shorter than a real Garand. As part of the original conversion I added 2 inches to the rear stock which really left the upper hand guard and front gas assembly significantly stubby looking. With the added length to the barrel (Something I didnt think I could pull off and still have it shoot well) I was able to lengthen the upper hand guard and lengthen the gas assembly. As mentioned above I also cut off the incorrect front sight (which I salvaged from the DE M14 Socom). In its place I mounted a 3D printed Garand front site acquired from Dracul. I fashioned a pseudo front locking lug and repositioned the bayonet lug. I also added a stacking swivel. The proportions are still not 100% (nor will they ever be) but it is way way better looking than it was. Without standing directly level with an actual M1 Garand it looks absolutely fine. Nitpickers would never accept it and there is no way the end result (300 FPS springer rifle) justifys the effort but for my purposes it is ideal. The final dimensions for those who are curious. (42" overall, Rear butt stock 1 1/2 inches longer than a RS. Gas assembly 1" too short, Upper hand guard 1 1/2 inches too short. Weight is 5 pounds.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 26, 2023 23:21:10 GMT -5
Classic I got the little guy all modified sanded, shaped and ready to paint and it's no longer shooting even close to straight. I tested it at every major stage with no issues. Obviously the final attachment of the extension is misaligned. Hopefully an easy fix tomorrow in day light. I tried filing with a rat tailed file and it helped a little. One of the things that made this effort worthwhile is this particular. DE 503 was an awesome shooter. Gack! Fingers crossed!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 27, 2023 11:28:50 GMT -5
I dremeled off the extension. Did a little cleanup. Test fired it without the extension and after a little tweaking it's back shooting great. I will reattach the new extension and hopefully this time it will not interfere with the flight of the BBs? I think what happened is a tiny amount of the JB Weld oozed in to the inner barrel. Hopefully I can prevent this from happening when I redo it..
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 28, 2023 20:29:23 GMT -5
I Carefully (I thought) reattached the pseudo end of the gas assembly and locking lug. Let it dry and harden. I then visually checked using a long straight, 6mm rod to insure a direct, open route for the BBS. Everything looked fine. Test fired and....No joy! Still pulling to one side. Makes no sense. I am beginning to think my gut suggesting I "leave well enough alone" and not attempt the enhancement was sound. ArggggHHHHH! Smitty always advises in cases like this, leave it alone and go back at it later with a clear head.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 31, 2023 16:15:57 GMT -5
I gave it a day and attacked the issue first thing this morning. I once again dremeled off my extension consisting of the end of the gas assembly, locking lug barrel tip and front sight. Once again I tested it without the extension and once again it shot strong and straight. with the extension section removed I demeled and filed the inner surface removing the barrel extension I originally put in place to create this new muzzle. I then reattached it with tape and test fired about 20 rounds. Worked great! I attached using a few spot welds of jb weld and again test fired. Yeah still working. I finished the complete seam weld allowed it to dry and harden and tested it one last time. Still functioning fine. I had to again do some outside filing and sanding and then touch up paint. All is well in M1 Garand Springer land. All of this of course is far more work than one can justify for a simple springer but I love these things. With the carbines and my Garand conversions I can arm a dozen GIs and not worry about my loaners as they are all fully paid for in the occassional sales of poor shooters or build fails and modest rental fees are generating a little money for more acquisitions and props. The big advantage is between my costumes and cheap loaner guns the cost of participation for folks wanting to participate in a WW2 airsoft event is very very low. Low rates of fire amongst a high portion of participants makes for a more enjoyable airsoft experience in my opinion. Auto weapons take on a key role within the squads and success requires far more teamwork and communication. "Cover me". "reloading" "who's got ammo?" Withn theses springers gas and charged batteries is one less thing to worry about. Hose fests and "campers" is less os an issue. And getting lit up from 10 feet away isn't common at all.
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adrg
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Post by adrg on Sept 1, 2023 14:07:45 GMT -5
Great to hear everything is good.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 1, 2023 18:24:06 GMT -5
I decided to tackle making a flush mounted magazine so I am going to risk one of my precious spare magazines and try marrying it with another available spare magazine that I have lots of. Instead of the typical short "shotty" mags I have used for Garands (which are too long and not well suited to shortening (length wise). I am going to attempt to marry a double stacker Bar 10 type mag. I will have to channel out the center making in shorter (horizontally) so it aligns with the relatively short DE magazine top. I will then remove the upright lip of the Bar 10 mag so it feeds into the DE lip. This will leave a gap top to bottom that will need to be filled. Depending on how I cut the spring it should feed about 28 rounds or so? It will take precision cuts. Lots of internal filing and smoothening of the BB channel and a great deal of luck. The hope is it will protrude just slightly at the Garand base. Perfectly flush will be challenging to pull out in the heat of a game. If it works I'll make more. Still wish I could source DE-503 M14 spare mags (Looking for help here?)
I love plinking with this newest updated effort. A proper looking magazine will help a lot. 20 plus rounds would be a nice start for a player in a game. Honestly with a springer I seldom survive much beyond that many shots!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 3, 2023 20:46:25 GMT -5
I took apart the Bar 10 mag and removed the spring and feed nub. I marked off my cuts with tape and removed roughly an inch and half from the horizontal length. By using tape and a real thin dremel blade I was able to make a nice even 90 degree cut. A couple issues. The DE mag tapers from rear to front a little bit and the Bar 10 mag tapers a little bit rear to front. Hmmm. The channel areas I'll be using run along the bottom so that will have to be perfectly flush. The top is not as critical but I needed to file the inner channel a bit so the spring would move readily at the base. I cut the very top off the M14 DE mag and aligned it with he erect feed nozzle from the bar 10. I filled the small gap with some wood cut out of a partial yard stick. To test everything I cut about 3 inches off the spring reinserted it attached everything with tape. That way I could insure functionality before using permanent glue. Yeah! Everything worked. The spring sometimes snagged a bit so disassembly and little interior sanding, reassemble re-test and we're good to go. Since the new mag doesn't taper slightly I dremeled out the mag well a tiny bit toward the front and it worked great It hangs about a half inch below the stock which in my book is ideal. (Something to pinch when removing it! It loads 25 rounds and leaves just one round in the natural gap between the. Bar 10 elevated nub and the DE mag tip. It pops in and out nicely. I will jb weld the pieces together. remove the thin strips of tape and then weld those gaps and seams. Once dry I'll sand and paint it. I'll order some more of these Bar 10 type mags and when time permits convert all these DE mags. 120 ready rounds in five clips that fit in the Garand pouches!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 15, 2023 17:02:59 GMT -5
I did the final detail work on this initial effort and am very happy with how it looks and how it works. I have four more of the double row "mid cap" Bar 10 magazines ordered and once they arrive I will tackle getting all 5 of my DE mags converted. Currently the DE M14 mags only feed 13 rounds so these conversions will help in the "ready rounds" department for this somewhat undersized M1 Garand. I love that the converted magazines will of course look better in the gun during gameplay and will also fit in the Garand pouches.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 28, 2023 18:50:18 GMT -5
Patience has never been my long suit. While waiting for the double stacker VSR mags I decided to try another potential approach to shortened mags for the DE conversion. The double stacker VSR mags require two cuts (Both along the top and the length) Both cuts require precise alignment and significant filing and sanding. These in turn require trial and error and multiple assembly, refinement, reassembly and testing. (A lot of time and effort). My new approach was to take the CYMA M14 magazines which tend to be priced at under 5.00 and are readily shortened for both my springer and AEG Garand conversions. Inside they have a simple U shaped channel. As with the shortening approaches I have taken. I remove the boxed off base and cut to the rounded base of the "U". I can cut them along the top roughly 3" from the base of the "U". I can cut them somewhat taller if I want a few more rounds of capacity. At 3" only the curved shape protrudes at the base of the Garand. I like a little more capacity and a little more surface to pinch when removing and swapping mags. 3" however is the longest you can go and still have them fit in a typical M1 Garand pouch. If that's important to you keep that in mind. I typically have riggers pouches in my set up so the longer length is not an issue.. The reason I hadn't thought to use the normally 37round M14 springer magazines is that they are significantly wider than the DE mag well and slightly thicker. The thickness is remedied by simply widening the mag well with my dremel. Something I had to do with the VSR mags as well. The width (Front to rear) was the restriction I didn't think was adaptable. Turns out the inner "U" channel doesn't extend all the way to the rear of the plastic M14 magazine. It literally aligns perfectly with the tiny DE magazine. Hence by cutting off the upper section of the DE mag with it protruding upper nub and then attaching it to the cut down and shortened M14 CYMA springer mag you have a simpler marriage that works and looks great. In the M14 CYMA springer magazine the top of the feed nozzle has a spring activated tab that holds the BBs in place until fed into the gun. In an M14 springer or AEG, the inner nozzle pushes this tab back and the BBS feed upward into the gun. With the protruding nozzle of the DE mag top this spring tab is not needed. (In fact it would interfere with feeding). Hence that needs to be removed and the gap created filled in. This approach is easier, cheaper and has less odds for failure. (Smoothing out and creating a seamless inner channel for the springs and BBs in a cut down VSR mag is hard! and time consuming). With this approach, your cut is along the top and creates a less critical seam to align and smooth out. With the DE type top feed system where the upper nub goes into the springer mechanism of the gun itself itself and feeds sideways at the top there is no "BB drop". In fact every BB feeds. The full length DE M14 springer mag only feed 13 rounds. (Horribly inefficient but that's the way they are.) By marrying this to a CYMA M14 springer mag even at 3" it loads and hence feeds 16-18 rounds. A 3 1/2 inch cut gives you 22 to 24. Moving forward even with these VSR double stackers on hand this is the approach I am going to take with my precious 4 remaining DE mags. (Still working on getting more of them somehow!). Both Airsoft GI, Evike and My buddy at Tac Tac are trying to source more! I'd love to have 10 on hand shortened magazines for this cool little gun. Building these mags gives me the perfect excuse to go in the back yard and do some plinking. The revised muzzle extension effort continues to work well. This somewhat shorter Garand conversion is a great little shooter. The longer and more expensive CYMA springer conversions with adjustable hop up shoot somewhat harder with .25 BBs than this does with .20 and are worth the extra money but I am happy with this little guy as well.
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Post by 2ndbat2 on Sept 29, 2023 12:26:41 GMT -5
I had a pm asking how far away these springers could shoot and have a reasonable expectation of hitting a half man sized target. With the CYMA M14 based rifles I would say 150 feet quite consistently and potentially out to 180 feet based on shooting my neighbors recycle bin They will go farther but so much inertia is lost beyond 180 feet that the BBs probably wont be felt. For the smaller (cheaper) DE springer 125 feet and 150 feet would be.my best answer. Naturally wind and brush effects the flight especially for the DE with its fixed hopup set for .20 gram BBs. The CYMA based guns have a weak but nonetheless adjustable hop up and I setthem up for .25s or .23s which they handle decently. As mentioned they are not as skirmishable as AEGs but can be used in harmony with AEGs. I limit most AEGs to semi auto. Forsubmachine guns I ask that the players remove all hopup to shorten their range and somewhat approximate a downside. This further enables a player equipped with one of these springers to function decently in the game.
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