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Post by killbucket on Mar 30, 2007 21:46:13 GMT -5
With a servo, I'd get the hicap type that comes with a wind-up key, and cobble it's drive pin onto the servo shaft. What I am going to try is to have a nice burly Mabuchi RS-555 (pic above) motor with a nice rubbery drive roller (Rubber stopper forced onto the shaft, spun true against a file) on a swing arm mount, spring loaded so the roller works the finger wheel directly. I'm hoping this will work out, the hicap would need no mods, and still be swappable to other guns. The motor is available at HSC : www.halted.com/commerce/ccp20205-motor-6-12vdc-6v-1-35a-w-damper-11500rpm-0-20389.htm$3.75 each, I have a box full of them for my RC's. Very torquey! The built-in fan is a nice addition.
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Post by Tough Ombre on Mar 31, 2007 0:27:14 GMT -5
My plan is to buy a hicap and take it out of its metal case. and attaching it that way. Its plastic, and i plan on just drilling a small hole barely the size of the motor drive. Then using epoxy to keep it in.. if that doesnt work i will figure something else out. I talked to my old engineer and design teacher and if i create the program.. he said he can run it for me.. since the machines are now at our other school. So i plan on getting the material and setting all that up. -Cary
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Post by killbucket on Mar 31, 2007 5:43:26 GMT -5
Development continues...
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biged
Master sergeant
Posts: 468
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Post by biged on Mar 31, 2007 6:50:35 GMT -5
Here's the link on How-To build a box mag. www.tau-hq.com/viewtopic.php?p=1276#1276I'll post another copy of it here in the how-to section eventually. I have run 3+ cases of bb's through this mag. I had to replace the hicap inside once. Because a groove wore in the plastic where the bb's move inside the mag. I can disassemble the mag in about 5 minutes. It still runs mint. ///ed///
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Post by Tough Ombre on Mar 31, 2007 9:38:05 GMT -5
Hey thanks, that helped. How much are those servos, and do they run fast enough that it gives the gun and endless supply and how much do they run? At first the wiring diagram confused me lol, but i got it all figured out after. I will probably use that as a reference point for my box mag. Thanks Big Ed! -Cary
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red0leader
Private
I smile because your about to blow up.
Posts: 73
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Post by red0leader on Mar 31, 2007 10:05:01 GMT -5
just to say this because i am a drafting dork and curious.... what version of AutoCAD did u use to make the specks?
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Post by killbucket on Mar 31, 2007 12:10:00 GMT -5
I have a student copy of 2002. AutoCad is great, just overkill for most garage designers. What I use for design purposes is KeyCAD. No 3d tools to speak of, most won't miss them. www.mindscape.net.au/products/ProductInfo.asp?pid=375&static=yesMost controls work just like AutoCAD, did you see the price? $15!!!Find a few online tutorials, fake the rest.
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red0leader
Private
I smile because your about to blow up.
Posts: 73
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Post by red0leader on Mar 31, 2007 13:25:35 GMT -5
ok, well, in my experience, the autocad program is pritty much a really expensive etch-a-sketch. but for the purpose that ur using where it is more important about the overall look and not about the individual parts, then autocad is fine. anyway, u may put this topic back on track, just courious.
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Post by killbucket on Mar 31, 2007 21:03:52 GMT -5
I've seen similarly modified S128 (the older version of the S148) servos operate for literally years without failure. I worked for a company in the bay area that was using them for gripper actuators in a silicon wafer-fab process. It was always something other than the servo when things came back for repair. They had software driving it back and forth about three times a minute, 24/7. It had limits on its movement, so the gears were never crashed. that's part of why I'm attempting a friction drive, it is "Failure-tolerant". It will just spin if there's an ammo jam. While I'm on this widget, there's a clock spring inside all hicaps that over-rides when fully wound. What kind of abuse can this feature take? Does it melt or break when it fails? I'm just wondering if my admittedly fuzzy math is off, will it just over-run the first time under test, or hari-kiri in some way? One way to find out. I'll hook up to an RC speed control so I can bring up the voltage to what works, measure it (guesstimate, more likely) and then go with that drive voltage.
I have a multi-volume set "The Machine Gun" by Chinn. (Ialso have the actual army field manual for the 1919A4) Of particular interest at the moment is the feed mechanism. I want to make the bolt on my gun rackable, and also for a fake ammo feed pawl to slide in time with it. We'll see.
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biged
Master sergeant
Posts: 468
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Post by biged on Apr 1, 2007 6:30:40 GMT -5
The theory of any hicap is once it is wounde all the way it should feed until the mag is empty. Which in reality does'nt happen that often.
The servo can easily keep up with the gun. Running it on 8.4v gun battery or a 9v battery will feed around 28 bb's per second.
The limit any mag can feed is around 34 bb's per second.
The fastest super-high speed aeg I have heard of clocked in around 36 bb's per second. 10.8v intellect battery, Deans connectors, fire-wire, MOSFET trigger, 7mm bearings, High Speed gears w/tooth removed from sector gear, Systema Magnum-Turbo motor, Systema M100 spring, Kanoba Twist rifled barrel, teeth removed from piston.
Mags CANNOT keep up with the ROF the gun puts out.
///ed///
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Post by killbucket on Apr 1, 2007 13:23:41 GMT -5
THANK YOU. This is GREAT information. Exactly what I needed to know. I have a pile of servos here, and will go that route on my personal gun. I will try to devise a modular solution, to make this as easy as possible, and avoid the (permanence) use of epoxy. Whatever I come up with that works, will be posted here.
So it appears that the wires are routed directly to the motor contacts inside the servo, bypassing the circuit board completely, and the white wire is not used. Correct?
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Post by killbucket on Apr 1, 2007 13:32:18 GMT -5
I'm intrigued...removed a tooth? So the piston releases a fraction sooner?
A new batch of MP40-converted recievers go into the paint tonite. Watch the site for new photos....
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Post by killbucket on Apr 1, 2007 22:22:49 GMT -5
Should I offer the left and right sideplates completed with the layout kits I sell? Getting ready to tear into a nice new s148 servo...And a thermold hicap.
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biged
Master sergeant
Posts: 468
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Post by biged on Apr 2, 2007 4:41:56 GMT -5
Correct. The last tooth is removed from the sector gear so it is released earlier completing the cycle. Because the the gears are spinning soo fast they will cycle and catch the piston before the spring can finish decompressing. The piston can also be modded by drilling holes in it lightening it up. We call them "Swiss cheese pistons". I don't run any high-speed guns of safety issues and arguments that can errupt from getting hit 40+ times in a burst. I will admit that seeing or hearing a hicap EMPTY in 9 seconds is daunting. Super high-speed guns (30 RPS) have issues:1. Avoid big springs. The gun will fail during it's first game. 2. Burst mode. They are soo fast that on semi they shoot 2 times and the spring will be compressed ready to fire a 3rd time. This is called overspin. RiotSC developed a "Active Trigger Brake" to prevent overspin. forums.airsoftmechanics.com/index.php?topic=249.03. The new systema magnum-turbo motor has a cam clip which attatches to the sector gear lobe. It draws the tappet plate back earlier and holds it open longer so a BB can enter the chamber. 4. Your hopup, bucking and nub take a beating from the speed and subsequent heat generated by friction. Depends on the firing time but you end up changing the bucking & nub 3-4 times a year. The Airsoft Mechanics forum is a high-end gearbox forum. Electrical fields, MOSFETS triggers, circuits, capacitor setups, product defects are discussed. Welcome to the nerds of airsoft. ///ed///
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Dog
Master sergeant
Posts: 50
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Post by Dog on Apr 2, 2007 5:38:43 GMT -5
I don't understand the half what you technical wonders say, so please, be gentle...
If I'll buy the 1919A4 HB layouts or even a ready-made replica and an AGM MP-40, what should I do with the magazine and BB's? Is there any moderately easy way to make an airsoft gun that works well in action. I probably won't have any sophisticated skills or tools to work with.
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Post by killbucket on Apr 2, 2007 9:43:07 GMT -5
All you need is a hand drill and a coping saw, and a steady hand. The layout and guns come with instructions for hooking the mag to the gun with a 5/16" spring. The spring becomes the feeding tube, and this is very easy to assemble. I am confident my mother-in-law could set one up without calling me. I am working on an accessory ammo drive that will fit into a standard .30 cal can (see pic earlier in this topic).
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Post by killbucket on Apr 2, 2007 13:04:52 GMT -5
I am exploring the possibility of fitting the MP40 mag into the inner space inside the Browning...Stay tuned. The trick will be re-filling it without too much hassle. I KNOW it would be possible to put the standard mag lengthwise, flat against the bottom of the gun body. Being small and black, it would be unobtrusive. A bit of velcro would hold it on place. Where my mag will end up is on a Sten I plan to build. Even though this has been DONE, I like the Sten that much.
Don't forget that the MP40 box contents, less elects & mechs, can be sold quite readily to offset costs! Or you can fill it with bondo and metal scrap to make a nice wall display dummy.
I am assembling an online how-to guide for doing the layout kits.
And...A finished set of Precision-cut and drilled to spec left and right sideplates are now available with the complete layouts, at $60 postpaid ($75 Overseas). The hardest part is already done!
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Post by applestrudel on Apr 2, 2007 22:13:27 GMT -5
will you still sell v2 gearbox plans I wouldn't be able to rip up an mp-40
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Post by killbucket on Apr 3, 2007 0:36:11 GMT -5
Yes, if you order a plan set, let me know, and I will include the drawings for those parts. Your MP40 does not need to come to any harm. The gearbox and barrel come out easily, as there are very few fasteners on the MP. It is simple to swap the parts back and forth between the two guns. I can do it in under 10 minutes. Here is a pic of the new sideplates that can be ordered with our layout kits.
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Post by Tough Ombre on Apr 3, 2007 8:59:04 GMT -5
Looks great, once i can get the material i talked to my engineer and design teacher and he will run the program for me at the other school. I just got to get time on millcam (easier then autocad i think) -Cary
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Post by killbucket on Apr 3, 2007 14:49:52 GMT -5
My tripod is finished. I will post pics after the paint job tonite. I am also doing up a dual-gun mount for it...
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Post by Tough Ombre on Apr 3, 2007 15:36:01 GMT -5
Sounds sweet!! Is there any chance at an eventualy price drop in all this?? haha -Cary
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Post by killbucket on Apr 3, 2007 21:11:19 GMT -5
The price was reduced by $45 last month with the gearbox change. We are through making changes to the gun. New pics with the tripod and MP40 gear will be ready in the next few days. Layout kits have all latest drawings, and include all parts for the gun, tripod, and airsoft conversion. As accessory products are developed, they will be marketed as separate kits. Some will be posted online, free of charge, and never marketed. The next project is the ammo feed. This will be offered as an accessory item, and will not affect the gun pricing. The link chute /battery bag will be following. I am continuing to explore using the MP40 mag inside the gun for those interested.
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Post by applestrudel on Apr 4, 2007 23:21:12 GMT -5
I'm going to order the plans any chance of getting a shopping list ahead of time? also waht hicap would be best for the feed system?
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Post by killbucket on Apr 5, 2007 1:43:50 GMT -5
ABS or PVC Sheet: 24" x48" or larger sheet. 1/4" thick (std is .247" actual)
12" x 24" 1/8" thick.
Body Assy: 16EA #10 dome head screw .5" long
Trigger Linkage: 9" metal rod, similar in size to original MP trigger rod. Bend to suit. 7.50" ctr to ctr.
1.5"I.D. ABS pipe, black: 1EA 22" long = main barrel 1EA 2" ABS clean-out (internal threaded stub, becomes socket for tripod) 1EA 2" ABS threaded plug (becomes threaded base for pintle)
3/4" I.D. PVC pipe, white: 1EA 3.5" long = grip. 2EA 22" long = tripod rear legs. 1EA 10.75" long = tripod front leg.
1/2" I.D. PVC pipe, white = inner barrel/hopup mount. 5/16" dia "screen-door type spring 5" long (becomes ammo feed conduit) 4EA 2" long .250dia. Aluminum rod or 2"steel pins = Body pins Oatey #31802 all-purpose cement 2 cans Krylon or Rustoleum "Paint for plastic" for base coats.
I'm going to use an M4 thermold hicap. Just because it isn't very tall and feeds reliably. This system is still in drawing form and is not part of the layouts. When completed, it will be marketed as a separate accessory. It will drop into a standard .30 al ammo can. Most people I talk to have their own theory of smooth, fast ammo feed mechs, so I would guess a lot of customer inventing will happen in this area of the design.
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Post by applestrudel on Apr 5, 2007 11:34:30 GMT -5
thanks
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Post by killbucket on Apr 5, 2007 16:03:22 GMT -5
Tommygunner, I cannot extend enough thanks for your inspiration. Soon we will be seeing how builders are customizing these, rather than looking at prototype photos! Just posted a page of new pics at the site. www.air-sharp.com/gen%203w%20pod.htmlNow, I have to get on to the ammo feed sytem, and the link catcher/battery stow bag. Somebody, Post pics of YOUR project, and drive this thing for a while? Maybe find some grips, sights, bipod sources for these things? Development on the 1919A4 HB is now frozen. I will make no further changes to the gun body or tripod. The focus will be on support accessories. Then the M2!
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Post by mikkel on Apr 5, 2007 16:16:50 GMT -5
Is the gearbox mounted as far back in the browning body as possible?
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Post by killbucket on Apr 5, 2007 19:12:38 GMT -5
The gearbox can move back 1 more inch before it hits the trigger lever. You will all see pictures of the new conversion kit very soon. www.air-sharp.com/faq.html
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Post by killbucket on Apr 7, 2007 13:34:02 GMT -5
Can a tippman 98 or a5 paintball gun be made to fit inside???
john
Excellent question! Short answer: Yes. Long answer: With some work or compromise. The barrel centerline is just 2.056 inches above the receiver bottom. The gun grip and its contents become a design challenge, or they hang out the bottom for all to see and point at. I am unfamiliar with paintball guns. Time constraints at the present keep me too busy to study their design and parts layout. I do know that Rap4 has a converted steel 1919. My bet is it an orphan, and is more for publicity than profit. That's a LOT to ask for a paintball gun...- You can buy ten Tippman Recon5's or Marui Thompsons for the same money (I'd rather have a closet full of Thompsons to wallow in, myself)!
So I will ask you a few questions: 1). Does the paintballgun have hop-up? 2). Can it operate upside down? 3). Is gravity the only ammo feed option?
The Design Criteria, for a successful production item like this: A). The customer should be able to make the conversion without more than moderate technical skills. This is the first criteria for a reason. Seen a kit car lately? B). The donor gun should be a highly-successful model in the marketplace, with a sizeable installed base. Only a percentage of these owners will want to tinker, so this important. Aftermarket support is a plus, but not neccessary if the donor does not normally need repair or upgrade. C). One donor. Period. Who wants to end up with one gun from three? D). ALL of the system from the donor gun should be used complete, if possible. Customers are usually not engineers or fabricators. E). Tool-less design. Field take-down is MANDATORY for anything called a gun. I'm in combat, you want me to carry a Phillips driver in my pocket? Many real-steel guns are designed for complete disassembly using nothing more than fingers. Clever designs use a bullet tip for a tool (Bullets seem to be available while a gun needs repair). F). Simplicity / low parts count. If it isn't there, it can't fail or break, and doesn't have to be paid for. This is also important to the customer, who needs to quickly understand the product and its merits. G). Producability. Design for Manufacture. This is why metal costs more than plastics. The production cycle is longer. Cutting one inch of aluminum or steel takes 20 times as long as the same cut in plastic with the same equipment (This is changing, more and more low-end guns feature metal parts, because as production equipment gets replaced, lower-end users adopt them. There is currently a cycle happening in this respect). H). Marketability. Who else is doing this? Are they successful? How well have they executed ALL of the above? Customer Service? And finally do customers NEED your product for the intended use?
I am VERY interested in applying our design(s) to paintball. I just have my hands full of other products at the time.
I invite you to develop your own accessory product, and market it as applying to our design. I intend to create a hobbyist's standard with my 1919A4, so the more goodies, the better!
Thanks for the question, and to the moderators of this forum. Your members have provided a collective guidance that is invaluable. PM our email me for a special consideration on my part. As development of the 1919A4 HB itself is complete, it would be fine if we closed and locked this item, barring any objections, and went on to other conversations.
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