Seff
Private
.30-06 - Turning Cover into Concealment since 1906
Posts: 344
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Post by Seff on Dec 16, 2007 13:41:24 GMT -5
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3rd Infantry Sergeant
Guest
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Post by 3rd Infantry Sergeant on Dec 16, 2007 16:13:00 GMT -5
Wood Stock M1A conversion package Price: $154 USD Regards Richard I was inquiring about this earlier, seems like a good company, very friendly.
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Seff
Private
.30-06 - Turning Cover into Concealment since 1906
Posts: 344
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Post by Seff on Dec 16, 2007 17:15:12 GMT -5
Wood Stock M1A conversion package Price: $154 USD Regards Richard I was inquiring about this earlier, seems like a good company, very friendly. Are you certain that wasn't the old garand kit? He's the one that also made the other one advertised on airsoft-news not too long ago...
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Post by 101steasykid on Dec 16, 2007 18:20:10 GMT -5
Looks like the updated version after a few of our guys on WW2AA sent him the correct measurements. It looks great. I may pick one up if it is this cheap, and no resin paste or tape included.
-Michael
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3rd Infantry Sergeant
Guest
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Post by 3rd Infantry Sergeant on Dec 16, 2007 19:08:04 GMT -5
Wood Stock M1A conversion package Price: $154 USD Regards Richard I was inquiring about this earlier, seems like a good company, very friendly. Are you certain that wasn't the old garand kit? He's the one that also made the other one advertised on airsoft-news not too long ago... From the info he sent me on the e-mails, it sounds like the exact same thing, so yeah, I'm pretty sure.
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Post by Bull on Dec 16, 2007 19:09:40 GMT -5
The kit certainly looks nice! I wasn't fortunate enough to get one of 2nd Bat's conversions. I kept on putting it off and then it was too late I'm definitely going to have to pick one of these up!
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sharpshooter
Private 1st Class
"Shoot anything that moves and if it screams in German...shoot it again"
Posts: 510
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Post by sharpshooter on Dec 16, 2007 20:15:24 GMT -5
Wow........that is a very good price!
I may have to ditch the tommy gun and become a rifleman!
AWESOME!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 16, 2007 21:28:28 GMT -5
His current offer is greatly improved and in my opinion looks pretty darn good. It still employs the Butt plate flap which is kind of a shame and I wish he had gone ahead and made the lower stock more Garand like in it's thickness, (Both would have been easy to do) It's all wood which is supper and probably will be a very easy installation on a Maruis style M-14. Even with shipping it will be well below what my kit was an although the front gas reservoir assembly is an after the fact approxiamtion vs. the real Garand gas assembly it looks pretty good. (Again much better then his original design)
I'm delighted and it looks like I timed getting out of the Garand business just about right. If these are as nice as they look and priced as they appear I will happily pass the torch to a more commercial operation and wish him the best.
Perhaps if he can sell in some volume a Chinese company will take note and build on his efforts at an even more competitive price. I wonder what he does for a magazine? Please someone buy one of these and do a report.
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Post by hank on Dec 21, 2007 11:09:13 GMT -5
Goodbye Tommy Gun...hello Garand! I am defiantly going to get one of these kits.
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Post by airsoftaddict on Dec 21, 2007 13:26:47 GMT -5
does this guy have a website that I can stare longingly at this for hours on end besides airsoft news
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Post by Rock of the Marne on Dec 30, 2007 16:07:42 GMT -5
Wood Stock M1A conversion package Price: $154 USD Regards Richard I was inquiring about this earlier, seems like a good company, very friendly. i talked to him and he said its $165
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 30, 2007 21:08:38 GMT -5
How much is shipping from the Phillappines?
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Post by CharleyNovember on Dec 30, 2007 21:54:12 GMT -5
From what I have seen it will be about 225.00-250.00 USD to get one to you with shipping and everything.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 31, 2007 0:55:21 GMT -5
That's still a great deal on an all wood all inclusive kit where all you need to add is your base rifle. Naturally I wish he paid a little more attention to the details like eliminating the butt flap and providing the properly shaped lower stock (since he makes it anyway) I'd love to see clearer pictures of the gas assembly area and front sight but if it's bad one could always use an actual grade two take off real assembly.
The good news is a proximity Garand is available affordably which should increase their presence on our airsoft battlefields.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Dec 31, 2007 1:36:38 GMT -5
A chap on the UK ww2 forums has one and has done a mini review on it. there are some fit and finish items that need work but they seem well worth the money to me.
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Post by 101steasykid on Dec 31, 2007 1:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by CharleyNovember on Dec 31, 2007 11:35:13 GMT -5
and here is what I based the price info off of.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 31, 2007 19:51:05 GMT -5
The gun looks quite respectable.
Why oh why didn't he shape the stock bottom properly (Fuller and more Garand like?) since he had to set up his CnC production anyway and why didn't he go ahead and eliminate the M-14 butt flap and fill the channel in? Clearly from the pictures with the scope mount left on he really has no idea.
He seems like a really adaptable guy since he's made huge improvements from his initial prototype so maybe he'll take the next relatively minor steps and truly do it right. Guinness seems to have some sway with him maybe he could funnel a few tips his way.
Regardless it's a huge step toward making more pseudo Garands available and it's certainly affordable. The cheapest I'm able to produce the properly shaped lower wood stock her in the states is well over $200.00 just for the stocks. Add in the cost of the complete front gas assembly and I can even come close so this represents a great deal.
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Ersatzjack
Corporal
"That silly Franz... he thinks we are winning."
Posts: 1,093
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Post by Ersatzjack on Jan 2, 2008 22:09:18 GMT -5
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YankeeDiv26
Staff Sgt.
Frustrated Mac Owner
BDM<33
Posts: 2,462
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Post by YankeeDiv26 on Jan 2, 2008 22:24:12 GMT -5
I think the stocks for $200 that 2nd bat's talking about are the ones he's planning on having CNC'd and designed to work with his garand conversions. They aren't regular stocks for a real steel m1 garand.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 2, 2008 22:55:03 GMT -5
Yes. Real Garand stocks can be picked up quite cheaply but unfortunatley I have been unable to get them to work (Dimensions were just not compatible for the M14 inner workings.) The amount of work attempting it was prohibitive. Before this fellow from the Phillapines came along it was my intention to take a M-14 replica real wood stock and adapts and shape it carefully so it would authentically depict the correct shape of a Garand while still provididng the proper inner hollwed out segments for use with the Marui M-14/ Garand set up.
My thinking was they'd be nice to have for existing 2nd Bat Garand customers and wuld allow me to introduce a new and dramatically improved version of my Garand conversions. While they'd certainly be more authentic then my old variant and way more precise looking then the finished product you'll be able to get from a AZM kit they would be so much more expensive that I don't know if there would be market for them.
I'd have to sell all wood properly shaped finished guns for over $700.00 and the stocks alone for probably $250.00 just to recoup my set up costs. At this point the project is on hold.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 20, 2008 14:00:45 GMT -5
The AZM stock is THE SAME LENGTH as the M-14 and same general shape. On his original version he compensated for that by using a stubby forward hand guard that looked like the handguard from a tanker version Garand and the original gas reservoir assembly and site was just bad. On his second version he greatly improved the looks with a better gas reservoir assembly and a properly lengthened forward handguard. To accomodate the fact that the M14 barrel wouln't reach to the muzzle instead of shortening the lower stock to the correct length he includes a barrel extender. The result is he now leaves the main stock way too long and still shaped like the M-14. The rifle looks okay from the 3/4 upper angle he shows but from the side is just way way off. His Garand when lined up with a real Garand is 3 to 4 inches longer! This would be an easy problem for him to remedy although his bracketry as it's currently made won't work.
Very disappointing. He also left the butt stock area set up to use the original M14 butt plate instead of setting it up for either a real Garand butt plate or for the kit owner to simply modify the M-14 butt plate which would be easy to do. As I had said earlier it wouldn't have cost him one penny more to have done it right in the first place. A little research and he'd be creating an awesome product at an affordable price. I hate to piss on his Wheaties but it's still goofy.
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YankeeDiv26
Staff Sgt.
Frustrated Mac Owner
BDM<33
Posts: 2,462
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Post by YankeeDiv26 on Feb 20, 2008 14:30:06 GMT -5
Bummer. Is there any contact for him where someone would be willing to give him detailed advice on how to make it a better and more accurate product? These kit's do have tons of potential and it would be better for everybody if he re-designed it to be a better product.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Feb 20, 2008 17:56:56 GMT -5
That blows monkey balls! I had really hoped that this was a good source for converting an M14 but with thsi news it is really not worth the money at all to have a half assed conversion.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 20, 2008 18:09:35 GMT -5
I have been exchanging e-mails and photos with him trying to convince him that it wouldn't be a hard switch to make right. We'll see. He's already made one major redesign so perhaps he'll be open to doing another. I know he spent some money on the tooling set up for his bracketry. Unfortunately these items would no longer be functional or simply not needed any more. He would have to redesign and tool for a couple of the brakets and he'd have to reestablish his stock CNC set up for the lower stock and one of the handguards with some minor tweaks to the other handguard.
He obviously didn't have a real Garand to go off of or apparently measurements when he did either his initial run or his redesign. I can't fathom that.
I'll keep everyone posted. Very frustrating. If you look at the pictures you can see that the rifle is out of proportion and way too long. There is no doubt that fixing the components so they looked okay is clearly possible and it's great to see someone making the effort to provide us with the items needed for an all wood AEG Garand at an affordable price. I just hope he makes the neccessary revisions.
If not I'll proceed with my redesign although truthfully I'd rather not feel like I have to.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 28, 2008 0:43:39 GMT -5
He has all my dimensions and substantial photographs and input. I'm extremely hopeful he'll respond by making the final adaptations and following that, market and sell the kit at an affordable price. It has great potential and would be a real boon to our hobby.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 21, 2008 1:59:37 GMT -5
I have received no favorable response and he's selling plenty of them the way they are so he sees no reason to change it. It's a great value but just WRONG IMO. I'm going to go ahead and do a properly shaped lower stock and add a few enhancements along with the wonderful new flush mounted clips and market them on a limited basis so folks will be able to get a more authentic version.
It's frustrating. Look closely at the pictures of the guns being built in the UK and you'll see what I'm talking about. The same thin M14 shaped lower stock but three additional inches longer for the overall Garand length. Very bizarre from my perspective but probably because I've been obsessing over the Garand for the last five years.
Make no mistake about it, it looks pretty darn good and is a huge improvement over seeing nothing but Thompsons or burlap wrapped AKs but again I just wished he'd gone ahead and shaped it right.
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Post by bluenose68 on Jun 2, 2008 16:59:39 GMT -5
My kit arrived last week and it was a bit of a pain to fit but... It's good! Reading the comments above, AR seem to have made some changes: the butt plate is now the proper Garand shape and I've just ordered a real one that is a like-like swap out. The grip is still a little chunky but the mid stock area is much better - it's wider and deeper that the M14 stock and consequently looks like an M1-proper. I've compared it to pics of the real steel and the only differences I can see are:
There's a step at the back of the breech block that isn;t there on the real thing. The butt stock seems about 4in too short (M14 rather than M1 sized). The step between the foregrip and front barrel assembly seems a little too deep.
Mine has a bit of wobble and there's a bit of a gap around the bolt slider but it's a lovely colour, good weight and I'm sure will draw a few stares at this weekends shoot 'em up. All in all, very nice quality and price for a gun that,to be honest, I won't use that much except at WWII events.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 2, 2008 17:24:23 GMT -5
I saw a couple of his latest versions at the Jump to Destiny game and indeed they were again improved over his first and second iterations. The front handguard is still shorter by 1 1/2 inches than an original (I compared them side by side with an actual Garand) and the gas reservoir assembly is almost an inch too short which makes the forard area look too stubby. Unless you have the luxury of a side by side comparison the overall impression is quite good indeed.
It's an affordable do it yourself kit that should enhance the look of the WW2 airsoft battlefield. The dimensions are off but it's actually quite subtle and overall looks pretty darn good.
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Post by fer on Jul 16, 2008 4:10:58 GMT -5
Hi. Please let me tell you our history with A.Z.R. Tools. Our Reenacment Group www.armygottes.com (based on South Spain) bought to this guy (Richard) 4 complete Garand stocks. I recognized we were easily seduced by price and look of these photos in his website. After receiving stocks we worked on three of them. We needed a bit of Dremmel work but in a few hours the were shooting (the trigger didn´t returned to its place when shooting in semi -no place enough in the wood-). Then the great day came. Last weekend we had first game with decent AEG Garands.... Our happiness lasts 5 minutes. Just marching towards the front one of the garands were broke. It didn´t hit the ground, it wasn´t shooted... Just the leather sling did the job. Pressure in the shoulder was enough to break it. Second Garand shooted a few mags, but finally (same reason) was broke. www.armygottes.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=895&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&start=0(follow the thread until pictures) The thing is we can accept things can be broken (that´s obvious). These "toys" soon or late may suffer accidents (water, dust, falls...) But our dissapointment, frustration, anger is in A.Z.R.´s answer...: "Hello Sir,
We are sorry that you broke your stock during your game. These are events that are already beyond our control. Assessment on the images that you sent the stock was subjected to over stress of the sling. There by breaking the stock.
Our responsibly ends when the item received.
Sincerely,
Richard"We have been treated like those who starts at airsoft one week ago. We know perfectly the reason the garands broke, but we think he must be more serious in this business, taking care of buyers. We can´t recommend AZR Tools. This is something our Club has very clear. Dispite we are far from you, we share same hobby, same motivations and spend many resources (time, money...) in this. We feel you should know. Regards. Abrazos a todos. Fernando. Member of Armygottes.
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