Totez
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Smokey the Smoke Grenade Rabbit
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Post by Totez on Jun 9, 2009 21:48:48 GMT -5
I intend to start a WWII Airsoft Reenactment group in the image of a Luftwaffe Field Division unit. The specific unit as of yet to be portrayed is still undecided but I have a few good ideas as to who to be. The key reason for this post is to test the waters and see if anyone here would be interested in joining up with me to start this endeavor and get a viable unit together. I know there are fellow WWII enthusiasts out there somewhere so if this sounds like your cup of tea please post a response here or PM me. Now to give you an idea of what the unit will be looking like uniform wise (and yes there will be a strict uniform code as I intend to start an actual reenactment unit not just a ragtag band of guys with similar but inaccurate clothes) here is a picture of what the uniform looks like: Keep in mind Reenacting is an expensive hobby in itself. The only upside to using Airsoft weaponry as opposed to real steel with blanks is the cost-effectiveness and legality issue avoidance. I won't expect everyone to have all their things immediately simply because of the hefty price tag of the basic kit but I'd say within a year should be ample time to get at least all of your basic gear. We will be located around the Philadelphia area in the Philly Burbs but can take anyone from anywhere as long as you make it to events every now and again, however distance is an issue so don't join or say you will join if you know there is no way for you to attend events with us. As of yet I have no site made, but I will make one soon for the unit detailing uniform requirements and the details on the unit. Until then please feel free to ask me any questions you have.
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Gerry
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Post by Gerry on Jun 10, 2009 8:50:12 GMT -5
I have a complete FD kit and have been looking for a group to join. I am in the NYC area and often attend events with my current FJ units as far west as Carlisle and Gettysburg as well as Maryland. I will be organizing events here in New England over the next couple of years. Just put on our first this may, "into the Rhineland". I have filled out applications with the 34th reg of the 17th LW FD and have not received any sort of reply. Check them out here: www.reenactor.net/units/17lwfd/1-17lwfd_main.htmlThanks, Gerry
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Totez
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Smokey the Smoke Grenade Rabbit
Posts: 283
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Post by Totez on Jun 10, 2009 13:04:19 GMT -5
Ah the 17th FD. I looked at their page when I first had the idea to start a LW FD for starting information. It's great to already see some interest in starting a FD and being in NYC is no problem at all.
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Post by Fusilier on Jun 10, 2009 13:08:28 GMT -5
I do Luftwaffe Field Div. in blank fire.Been doing it for a few years now. We do 20th FD. I'm just north of NYC,near West Point. I don't believe the 17th is active anymore. Our members are from NY,PA,VA. I don't have many pics,but I'll post any if I can.
If you have any questions,feel free.I have some good contacts on where to get the correct uniforms and insignia. Its a neat impression to do,aside from all the uber elite groups out there.
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Post by Fusilier on Jun 10, 2009 13:09:50 GMT -5
Oh,and we're doing a living history portraying the 16th FD at Caen at the Eisenhower Farm in Gettysburg in September along with a Fallschirmjager group we usually work with.
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Post by 326thvgd on Jun 12, 2009 7:42:20 GMT -5
E-mail sent to your Yahoo account.
PM me here if you didn't get it.
Am interested in joining.
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Gerry
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Post by Gerry on Jun 13, 2009 22:28:38 GMT -5
Oh,and we're doing a living history portraying the 16th FD at Caen at the Eisenhower Farm in Gettysburg in September along with a Fallschirmjager group we usually work with. HA Thats funny! I just spent the weekend at Reading with Slim and Dougs Fallschirmjager group 2/Fallschirm rgt.7! I'll be at Ikes with you.
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Post by Fusilier on Jun 13, 2009 23:28:19 GMT -5
Oh,and we're doing a living history portraying the 16th FD at Caen at the Eisenhower Farm in Gettysburg in September along with a Fallschirmjager group we usually work with. HA Thats funny! I just spent the weekend at Reading with Slim and Dougs Fallschirmjager group 2/Fallschirm rgt.7! I'll be at Ikes with you. No applesauce ! A guy from my unit was there,Mark Ragan. I had to work,or I would've been there. We hooked up with a good Fallshirm group at the Gap a couple years ago,was just the 2 of us. Was a good group.Did some patrolling,and none of the Flaggrantly Wrong BS that normally goes on there. BTW,we have a yahoo group, Lw-FD-FJ@yahoogroups. I believe Doug belongs to that. Feel free to join!
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Post by dlc43 on Jun 18, 2009 21:00:59 GMT -5
I have been toying with the idea of doing Luft Field Division for some time now. Do you know of any forums that specifically discuss this topic? I know there are Heer forums and SS forums and Gebirgstruppen forums but I can't find a Luft field division forum. The motley appearance of thses units just looks cool to me. Even though poorly trained usually they look like real fighters. They were also everywhere, Italy, Russia and Normandy. Black or brown leather gear or mixed, Fliegerbluse or Heer feldbluse with a mix of Luft and Heer insignia, Stalhelm or paratoop helmets. The combinations are endless, Plus they got a disproportionate number of automatic weapons and all the cool camo stuff. It would be amusing to watch the stitch knot-see's squirm when they saw a group of Luft field division. I downloaded about 200 original field division pics last night. It took me hours. Talk about a farb fest! LOL! Problem is they were all real! I love it. I'm a camo whore anyway and this unit you can't bitch about camo being used. I like brown leather gear over black as well. I'm really interested in this impression. If there are any forums specific to the discussion of Luft field divisions I would be really interested.
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Post by dlc43 on Jun 18, 2009 21:22:29 GMT -5
HA Thats funny! I just spent the weekend at Reading with Slim and Dougs Fallschirmjager group 2/Fallschirm rgt.7! I'll be at Ikes with you. No applesauce ! A guy from my unit was there,Mark Ragan. I had to work,or I would've been there. We hooked up with a good Fallshirm group at the Gap a couple years ago,was just the 2 of us. Was a good group.Did some patrolling,and none of the Flaggrantly Wrong BS that normally goes on there. BTW,we have a yahoo group, Lw-FD-FJ@yahoogroups. I believe Doug belongs to that. Feel free to join! I just saw this link. I'll try to look you guys up.
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Totez
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Smokey the Smoke Grenade Rabbit
Posts: 283
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Post by Totez on Jun 18, 2009 21:41:42 GMT -5
I have the start of a website going. Not much to look at just yet but it will suffice for now. Not all information is up either but it will be soon. 16th-lwfd.webs.com
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Post by Fusilier on Jun 18, 2009 23:01:57 GMT -5
No applesauce ! A guy from my unit was there,Mark Ragan. I had to work,or I would've been there. We hooked up with a good Fallshirm group at the Gap a couple years ago,was just the 2 of us. Was a good group.Did some patrolling,and none of the Flaggrantly Wrong BS that normally goes on there. BTW,we have a yahoo group, Lw-FD-FJ@yahoogroups. I believe Doug belongs to that. Feel free to join! I just saw this link. I'll try to look you guys up. Please do,we're trying to spread the "Gospel" on LwFD so to speak! A lof good info is put out on there. BTW,I'd love to see some of the pics you got!
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Gerry
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Post by Gerry on Jun 18, 2009 23:49:30 GMT -5
I have the start of a website going. Not much to look at just yet but it will suffice for now. Not all information is up either but it will be soon. 16th-lwfd.webs.comHi, You Splinter B Smock is pictured but it is of Splinter A pattern. -Gerry
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Totez
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Smokey the Smoke Grenade Rabbit
Posts: 283
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Post by Totez on Jun 19, 2009 0:19:37 GMT -5
Yes I know. It's a temp picture; the first one I found. Hadn't had a chance to update it with the actual Splinter B jacket but it should be fixed now!
Totez
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Post by dlc43 on Jun 19, 2009 13:35:59 GMT -5
I have the start of a website going. Not much to look at just yet but it will suffice for now. Not all information is up either but it will be soon. 16th-lwfd.webs.comHi, You Splinter B Smock is pictured but it is of Splinter A pattern. -Gerry Where are you finding that smock picture? The Color picture plate which looks like an osprey pic? That picture may very well be fairly accurate. I have an FD jacket I picked up at a thrift store about 15 years ago. I saved it and I USED to use Lost Battalions as gospel considering their camo patterns. My smock camo pattern looked too big to be splinter B but too small to be splinter A. I went ahead and had it altered thinking it couldn't hurt since it was obviously a bad fake after seeing the Lost Battalions camo. I was sick when I got on a UK website and they were bragging up an original splinter B smock they had uncovered. The whole website was going nuts over it. It was THE EXACT pattern I had! I was nauseous as I had altered and tailored an orignal! I still have it and it does fit me well but it does look more like a cross between what we consider splinter "A" and "B" I found black and white pics of FD guys and they are wearing the same pattern. I feel really stupid altering it If you look at the guy with the MP40 that doesn't look like what we currently consider splinter B. The FD Jacket is also an original taken from a Collectors website. They aren't reenactors just serious collectors. That is an original FD jacket.
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Totez
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Smokey the Smoke Grenade Rabbit
Posts: 283
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Post by Totez on Jun 19, 2009 21:51:22 GMT -5
From what I understand both were in use. I believe Splinter B was more common though. I could be mistaken. I'm not as well versed as I would like to be in FD history.
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Post by Fusilier on Jun 19, 2009 22:53:14 GMT -5
Field Division jackets were Splinter B,and sumpfmuster,aka tan and water pattern. Splinter B was strictly a Luftwaffe designed camo. The only splinter A stuff they used were zelts and maybe helmet covers.But I've never seen a FD pic of anyone wearing a helmet cover.
The best splinter B out there is GMAX,IMO. ATF's is very dark.I bought one of their jackets and returned it right away.Lost Battalions was just BAD! I hear SM Wholesale used to have good ones,but IDK if they make them anymore. Spearhead makes some stuff in splinter B. It's actually pretty good,although the colors are just tad off.
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Gerry
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Post by Gerry on Jun 20, 2009 0:14:21 GMT -5
The black and white pic looks a lot like a tan and water pattern smock to me.
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Post by dlc43 on Jun 20, 2009 0:57:34 GMT -5
The black and white pic looks a lot like a tan and water pattern smock to me. I think the edges look a little too sharp to be Tan&Water. Tan/Water has a softer edge. I have a pic of an original Tan&Water and it really looks more like BGS camo than any of the repro camo's being manufactured lately. I have heard there were two types of Tan&Water but when looking at originals this is the pattern I encounter most frequently. I hate to say it but the Tan&Water coming from singapore or hong kong or where ever that stuff is made looks better color wise than any I have seen made in the US. The pic I attached is an original that just sold for an obscene amout on the collectors guild website. It bears a strong resemblence to what we cal BGS camo. www.germanmilitaria.com/Luftwaffe/photos/L00951.html
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Gerry
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Post by Gerry on Jun 20, 2009 9:32:30 GMT -5
This smock you have posted is most likely some of the early style/maker specific tan and water, you can see the geometric resemblance to the splinter pattern rather than the softer blurred edges.
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Post by dlc43 on Jul 2, 2009 5:07:35 GMT -5
This smock you have posted is most likely some of the early style/maker specific tan and water, you can see the geometric resemblance to the splinter pattern rather than the softer blurred edges. I'm not sure that smock is such a rarity, This is an original Tan&Water Camo Parka that again looks more like BGS camo than anything I have seen reproduced as Tan/Water, Especially in the US. Some of the Spearhead Tan & Water can come close but the green usually dominates too much and the brown generally lacks that soft edge seperating it from the green that you see in borh these original examples and on all BGS camo. IF someone made field division smocks in BGS which no one does to my knowledge they would be closer to WW2 Tan&Water than anything we are seeing reproduced today. I'm not being argumentive. I just have studied WW2 Heer German camo a lot and on all repros the splinter B patterns look too small and too light and the Tan Water camo patterns look too big with way too much green. If you are familiar with BGS you can see both these original examples look a whole lot like BGS camo. They are both documented original examples. There were lots of variations in dye lots however and the color intensity can vary but the patterns look like either BGS in Tan&Water and Splkinter B looks a lot more like Splinter A than we see in modern repro's, Defiinately a smaller pattern but not as small as it is reproduced today. You sometimes have to almost lay original splinter A and B side by side to really notice the difference.
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Post by Fusilier on Jul 2, 2009 11:13:13 GMT -5
Collectors Guild is insane! I saw a FD jacket on there for damn near $4000! I know they're rare,and this one wasn't even mint! They have ice stuff to look at,but WAY beyond the price ranges of most people.
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Post by dlc43 on Jul 2, 2009 19:26:22 GMT -5
Collectors Guild is insane! I saw a FD jacket on there for damn near $4000! I know they're rare,and this one wasn't even mint! They have ice stuff to look at,but WAY beyond the price ranges of most people. There is no doubt collectors guild stuff is expensive and should never be considered for reenacting purposes anyway. That stuff belongs in museums. My point is that the Tan&Water and Splinter B that we accept as correct is really Flaggrantly Wrong applesauce . Original Tan/Water looks a lot more like BGS and original Splinter B looks a a lot closer to splinter A than anyone would admit because a certain vendor or vendors swears they have the most authentic stuff available. I always go to the source (original) to get an idea of what the closest is and at the moment. I've got some images of original German luft Camo that are so weird I don't even know what the hell to call it but there are a several guys in one unit wearing it. MAYBE it was really faded Italian camo being worn by a luft unit but I don't even recognize the cut of the uniform. There was a lot more weirdness out there than anyone would like to admit. I've seen units with zippered front sniper smocks with upper pockets added and all manner of strange combinarions. I stick to what is generally well known but for camo patterns I'm still looking for the best, The best Tan/Water seems to be coming out of singapore at the moment but even that isn't right unless you wash the applesauce out of it. The patterns on that arent perfect either but closer than most. I don't even bother studying SS camo as that would be a book in itself. Heer camo is easier to since there was only just so much of it. Except for splinter A though I haven't seen any REALLY good heer camo. Lost Battalions heer camo is just weird and looks nothing like anything original I have seen. They have ok Splinter A but the splinter B pattern last i looked anyway was way to small pattern wise. They did make a really close splinter B several years ago and I was lucky enough to get a FD jacket made out of it but they don't make that camo anymore. I don't know why because it looked almost exactly like the original splinter B FD Jacket I posted earlier up in this thread. It was actually pretty darn good. The new stuff they have is, well...not right.
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Post by Fusilier on Jul 2, 2009 20:07:59 GMT -5
GMAX makes the BEST splinter B and tan/water out there. LB's camo is very funky,as is ATF's,WAY too dark! I'm impressed by whats coming out of Singapore/China these days.
I stand by GMAX. Closest to the real thing out there IMO.
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Post by dlc43 on Jul 3, 2009 3:06:08 GMT -5
GMAX makes the BEST splinter B and tan/water out there. LB's camo is very funky,as is ATF's,WAY too dark! I'm impressed by whats coming out of Singapore/China these days. I stand by GMAX. Closest to the real thing out there IMO. I just looked at G-Max and that is some really good tan & Water, The "New" Splinter B that they showed was dead on too. I went to trhe camo page and they still had pics of that overly small pattern splinter B that everyone was using for awhile but they show a newer version on their page which is great. That is good stuff. I'm curious what it costs. Spearhead or Barry or whatever his name is makes some pretty good camo stuff, Close enough that once washed and dirty isn't going to bother anyone. There is another company making some german camo out of china and that stuff is way off. Pattern looks tan and water but the colors are just weird. Id stick with spearhead and after looking at G-max I'd go with their stuff if it isn't outrageously priced. I tear my stuff up too much to drop $300 for a new FD jacket every few battles. Same with field blouses. I don't know what spearheads are like but they don't look too bad, considering german field blouses mid to late war were made by slave labor with crappy materials I imagine the Singapore stuff is probably pretty accurate. Especially for airsoft or simulated combat. It don't hurt as bad tearing a up an $80 field blouse as it does a $350 one and it doesn't bother you to crawl around in the mud in them either. I have two friends with that both bought their continentals from China or singapore (can'r remember which) and they looked great, especially after they got some real dirt and grime on them.
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Gerry
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Post by Gerry on Jul 10, 2009 0:01:04 GMT -5
This is a recruiting thread!
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