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Post by spitfire740 on Nov 12, 2009 23:34:45 GMT -5
no?
Are you implying that a disarmamanet didnt occurr in September 1943?
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oberst42
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Post by oberst42 on Nov 14, 2009 16:24:53 GMT -5
i'm implying that i don't like this
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Post by m5a11943 on Nov 20, 2009 8:17:45 GMT -5
Get back to the thread, unless you want to change it to the worst machine gun ever made. The French Chau Chat!
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Nov 22, 2009 2:01:25 GMT -5
Well if you guys don't like the thread you can always stop reading it. By the way the only reason the Gladiator had so many malfunctions was because of the open sided magazines , the machine gun itself worked great. It also set a precedent by being the most widely produced light MG of the war , it was easy to manufacture and light , making it very portable and perfect for trench warfare.
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Post by hairy apple on Nov 22, 2009 16:27:44 GMT -5
Well I thought it was an interesting thread....
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kalbs
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Post by kalbs on Nov 22, 2009 19:53:35 GMT -5
This is an excellent post, guns and history... All the things I like.
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CptJericho
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Post by CptJericho on Nov 22, 2009 20:41:40 GMT -5
I found this about submachine guns:
The submachine gun is an automatic or selective-fired shoulder weapon that fires pistol-caliber ammunition. The concept of submachine gun dates back to World War One; the trench warfare of this war required effective and compact weapons for short-range fighting in trenches; additionally, a lightweight and maneuverable fully automatic weapon was desirable to complement light machine guns in both defensive and offensive scenarios, to cover last 200 meters of assault on enemy positions. The first weapon which can be considered to some extent as the world's first submachine gun was the Italian Villar-Perosa, which was a twin-barreled automatic weapon that fired 9mm Glisenti pistol ammunition from top-mounted box magazines. It was compact, but its primary tactical role was of short-range machine gun; therefore it was usually fired from some sort of mount, and fitted with machine-gun type spade grips instead of more conventional rifle-type stock.
The first true submachine gun was the Bergmann / Schmeisser MP.18,I, which saw some action during closing days of the Great war. This was a shoulder-fired weapon, that set the basic pattern for all following weapons of its class.
All I did was copy and paste so dont go crazy
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Nov 22, 2009 21:19:14 GMT -5
Everyone tends to think of the MP18 as the first true sub machinegun , because for some reason they like to ignore the Beretta M18 wich went into service and combat 2 months before the MP18 did.
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oberst42
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Post by oberst42 on Nov 22, 2009 22:26:50 GMT -5
thank you jehrico!
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Nov 23, 2009 2:06:51 GMT -5
This was a shoulder-fired weapon, that set the basic pattern for all following weapons of its class. Shoulder fired weapon , funny , even that describes the Beretta M18
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Post by volkssturm on Nov 23, 2009 20:06:14 GMT -5
Well if you guys don't like the thread you can always stop reading it. By the way the only reason the Gladiator had so many malfunctions was because of the open sided magazines , the machine gun itself worked great. It also set a precedent by being the most widely produced light MG of the war , it was easy to manufacture and light , making it very portable and perfect for trench warfare. It's embarassing to admit, but I've always been kind of fascinated by the Chauchat. As you point out, the open sided magazine was the major flaw. The French resolved this somewhat by providing canvas covers that reduced the amount of muck that got in. The second big flaw was that the majority of them were manufactured by a company that formerly made motorcycles. Their quality control was not up to firearms manufacture and the quality of the material that went into some guns was subpar. And what really did the Chauchat in for the US was that they modified it for the .30-06. The original 8mm lebel was a lower powered cartridge, so the design was overstressed by the .30. And to top it off, they got the chamber dimensions wrong. Most US troops ended up using the original 8mm Lebel version. The Chauchat wasn't as bad as it's been made out to be, and if the French had had the leisure and resources to work out the kinks it would have been much better regarded. Still, it did the job until better weapons came along.
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oberst42
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Post by oberst42 on Nov 24, 2009 2:50:01 GMT -5
we still get to keep the first Ballistic Missile, jet engine, assault rifle and cmbat use of poison gas, and before adler brings up federov avtomat, it didn't use a medium power cartridge
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Post by CharleyNovember on Nov 24, 2009 9:08:30 GMT -5
Ball gags. Not just for your gimp anymore.
How did the US have the first assault rifle?
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CptJericho
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Post by CptJericho on Nov 24, 2009 10:22:49 GMT -5
Maybe the BAR?
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Post by badmoon on Nov 24, 2009 10:47:46 GMT -5
I think the clue is in the term "Assault Rifle", translate that into German and you get "SturmGewehr", as in Stg-44 Charlie November I think by "we" oberst42 is meaning Germany not the U.S.
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oberst42
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Post by oberst42 on Nov 24, 2009 12:34:23 GMT -5
badmoon got it right
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Post by m5a11943 on Nov 24, 2009 15:05:05 GMT -5
CharleyNov did you ever hear of the Pederson device that went on the Springfield rifle. Bolt action assault rifle.
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oberst42
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Post by oberst42 on Nov 24, 2009 17:37:12 GMT -5
i read on that barry, intresting but still not a true assault rifle, the STG-44 still has the first spot, deutschland uber alles
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Post by CharleyNovember on Nov 24, 2009 18:40:04 GMT -5
Thanks for clearing that up. I was confused by "we". M5 ~ Never heard of it but I will be googling it. thanks for the info.
Wow thanks M5! I had never heard of that before. That was very interesting. Did this make it a semi-auto self loader or a fully automatic weapon? I was unclear on that part. If it was a semi only pistol cartridge that would make more of a precursor to the carbine right? Very interesting for me thank you.
I read further and see it was semi auto. Still very very interesting.
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Nov 24, 2009 21:57:21 GMT -5
we still get to keep the first Ballistic Missile, jet engine, assault rifle and cmbat use of poison gas, and before adler brings up federov avtomat, it didn't use a medium power cartridge Nope , not the Federov Avtomat , instead i give you the WALTHER MASCHINENKARABINER 42 (W) , the Mkb42 (W) was the earliest recorded model of the assault rifle before the STG44.
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kalbs
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Post by kalbs on Nov 24, 2009 22:52:52 GMT -5
Since we are hung up on semantics, if so the Thompson was the first “Sub-machinegun” because this name was first used to describe the Tommy. The first “assault rifle” was indeed the “Sturmgewehr” since the term was first coined for the Stg. 43. The term assault rifle is a translation of the German word Sturmgewehr (literally meaning "storm rifle"), "storm" used synonymous with assault in German. However wasn't the French Ribeyrolle1918 the first real true Assualt rifle?
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Post by badmoon on Nov 24, 2009 22:58:49 GMT -5
True Adler, the Mkb42 meets the definition of an assault rifle, but it was issued as a carbine. Again the nomenclature reveals all....... Mkb or"Maschinenkarabiner" which translates as machine carbine. If you want to include the Mkb42, surely you also need to include the earlier Vollmer M35, which also met the terms of the definition. Nice find Kalbs, that is one that I've never seen before. I'm definitely going to have to find out some more about it! Oops, I think we may be derailing the thread since this has very little to do with the excellent Villar Perosa!
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kalbs
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Post by kalbs on Nov 25, 2009 3:32:30 GMT -5
keep the frogs out of this kalbs I fail to see where any mention of an amphibian was discussed? I assume You wouldn't be using a derogatory term because as you know is against the boards rules and this being an international viewed website we know that wouldn't be very proper and makes us look a bit ignorant.
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oberst42
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Post by oberst42 on Nov 25, 2009 3:45:57 GMT -5
correction "the frenchman"
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Post by kilroy9thss on Nov 25, 2009 11:32:19 GMT -5
i will never call the stg 44 the storm rifle to me it doesnt make any sence... so they would have called Infanterie Sturmabzeichen.. infantry storm badge?Sturmartillerie Feldbluse..storm artillery?? Sturmgeschütz III..storm gun 3?? now all those dont sound right with the word storm and neither does the stg44..
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Post by spitfire740 on Nov 26, 2009 3:00:37 GMT -5
Wow you must be really smart! Germans made the first jet engine huh? You need to check ur source because you clearly have no idea what ur talking about. The Campini Caproni CC.22 was the first airplane that demonstrated flight with a jet engine---which is an ITALIAN airplane.
isnt their some kind of rule on here about spreading false information?
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kalbs
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Post by kalbs on Nov 26, 2009 6:55:44 GMT -5
No, it was the Romanian's, Henri Coandã who built the first build jet plane in 1910
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kalbs
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Post by kalbs on Nov 26, 2009 7:07:53 GMT -5
i will never call the stg 44 the storm rifle to me it doesnt make any sence... so they would have called Infanterie Sturmabzeichen.. infantry storm badge?Sturmartillerie Feldbluse..storm artillery?? Sturmgeschütz III..storm gun 3?? now all those dont sound right with the word storm and neither does the stg44.. Sturm in German also means assault, not just Storm. It's like in the English language, one word can have two meanings... like bark and bark or general and general. I think it's called a homonym but don't qute me on that.
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Post by badmoon on Nov 26, 2009 8:20:54 GMT -5
<grammarNazi_on> In English, not just German, "storm" is a synonym of "Assault", eg. "The squad stormed the bunker" is the same as "the squad assaulted the bunker". </grammarNazi_off>
The Germans can still lay claim to being the first to utilise jet powered combat aircraft though. As a point of interest did you know that both the CC.22 and Coandã's aircraft were powered by a gas turbine or thermo-jet engine which still utilised a traditional piston engine as part of its construction?
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Post by kilroy9thss on Nov 26, 2009 9:57:51 GMT -5
yea i know it means both but in a military seance i dont think it should be storm but thats just me
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