|
Post by Rapture on Jan 21, 2011 17:33:38 GMT -5
Wasnt trying to sound like a complete dick but I would rather have no vehicles than a golf cart simply because...its a golf cart. Just my opinion take it for what its worth
|
|
|
Post by CharleyNovember on Jan 21, 2011 18:08:08 GMT -5
Oh no I appreciate the response. I was looking to see what your thoughts on it were. I think if you use a golf cart in a scale it is capable of then it works ok. Working on converting mine into a UC at the moment. No way it will work as a Sherman and a little 1/2 scale sherman would look very silly but a UC is a possibility with a set of fake tracks for nothing but looks. The better solution would be an Argocat as someone mentioned but I don't have the ability to do that. I've seen how they can enhance simulation when they don't look realistic but work now I would like to explore making them LOOK as close to right as possible.
|
|
|
Post by Fusilier on Jan 21, 2011 18:29:47 GMT -5
Wasnt trying to sound like a complete dick but I would rather have no vehicles than a golf cart simply because...its a golf cart. Just my opinion take it for what its worth >> I couldn't agree more. A golf cart is just that.A GOLF CART. No amount of cardboard,fiberglass,sheet metal or plastic will make it anything more than something out of the Road Warrior. We need to keep things simple. Work on impressions,uniforms and weapons.
|
|
|
Post by CharleyNovember on Jan 21, 2011 18:41:53 GMT -5
That seems to lack any imagination or creativity Bob. That's ok that's why the world has people like me. I will see a problem and think about how to fix it or get around it. adapt overcome that sort of thing. So as per your usual stance something that looks pretty good and enhances and enriches a scenario is unacceptable on the field and will take away from your own personal vision? I mean this in a non sarcastic way. Actually looking for your response on this.
|
|
|
Post by Fusilier on Jan 21, 2011 19:20:53 GMT -5
That seems to lack any imagination or creativity Bob. That's ok that's why the world has people like me. I will see a problem and think about how to fix it or get around it. adapt overcome that sort of thing. So as per your usual stance something that looks pretty good and enhances and enriches a scenario is unacceptable on the field and will take away from your own personal vision? I mean this in a non sarcastic way. Actually looking for your response on this. >> It's a GOLF CART Dan. As the saying goes,you can put a pig in a dress,its still a pig.. I'd rather have NO vehicles,than something that looks really silly just for the sake of having vehicles. Again,I think people should worry more about using the correct weapons,and wearing correct uniforms than wasting time with this sort of thing. Again,my opinion,others may vary..
|
|
morganm
Private
"For us, there was no land behind the Volga"
Posts: 151
|
Post by morganm on Jan 21, 2011 19:31:59 GMT -5
I've heard of people making small tanks out of argocats. I think they welded a metal top to it and a small turret with a fake barrel, but the did mount AEGs on them. Oddba11s, a UK reenactor did this, he has a video on YouTube, and his account is Oddba11s. If they work, they would be pretty sick. You would have to enforce speed limits so nobody becomes roadkill, because those things can go fast.
|
|
morganm
Private
"For us, there was no land behind the Volga"
Posts: 151
|
Post by morganm on Jan 21, 2011 19:40:34 GMT -5
Wow while searching for the video I posted about I found lots of videos about argo cat tanks. Saw a scaled M1 abrams, and correction, oddba11s is a tetrarch modeled after oddballs Sherman in kellys heroes.
|
|
|
Post by CharleyNovember on Jan 21, 2011 19:58:44 GMT -5
So it's about the fashion show more than a millitary simulation of tactics with you correct Bob? That's fine. One should certainly not have a crappy impression if you can help it. My interest like I said is having another aspect of tactical simulation. Nothing wrong with either way people think I guess. For the record I'm not talking about wrapping something in cardboard. I'm working on making something that looks pretty good. I mean when I made the 91/30 it was a compromise but I think it looks acceptable don't you? I would want to put the same kind of work into this conversion.
|
|
|
Post by Fusilier on Jan 21, 2011 20:17:48 GMT -5
So it's about the fashion show more than a millitary simulation of tactics with you correct Bob? That's fine. One should certainly not have a crappy impression if you can help it. My interest like I said is having another aspect of tactical simulation. Nothing wrong with either way people think I guess. For the record I'm not talking about wrapping something in cardboard. I'm working on making something that looks pretty good. I mean when I made the 91/30 it was a compromise but I think it looks acceptable don't you? I would want to put the same kind of work into this conversion. >> Yes Dan,no doubt its about the military simulation,I agree. And yes,your rifle looked great,as I said. All I'm saying is people should concentrate on honing their impressions and using the correct weapons before they attempt to make some sort of vehicle. I see it in blank fire,great looking vehicle,but the occupants look like crap! See my point?
|
|
|
Post by CharleyNovember on Jan 21, 2011 21:05:39 GMT -5
I think we are agreeing again...
|
|
morganm
Private
"For us, there was no land behind the Volga"
Posts: 151
|
Post by morganm on Jan 21, 2011 22:32:38 GMT -5
CN your 91/30 is the most realistic custom I've seen, since you have the bolt in the correct place. I myself love creativity and I don't mean to be butting into your conversation but I think having the creative and realistic aspect of events is a great combination. Everybody has correct weapons (platoon leaders with SMGs, unless it's a Russian platoon, and everybody else with rifles and a few with MGs) correct uniforms, and we have the creative aspect, using home made vehicles and scenarios that have great effects, like small "explosions" and vehicles, and loud speakers playing good battle ambience. I think if we incorporate both aspects into our events more people would join and airsoft reenacting would gain respect from the blank fire community. Here's basically what I'm saying: we need to accurately display the war (authenticity) and we need to have a blast while doing it (creativity).
|
|
|
Post by Rapture on Jan 22, 2011 20:41:44 GMT -5
If the vehicle is made to look at least slightly realistic I would feel alot better about it. If its just a golf cart I would rather no vehicles at all. From what Ive seen from your custom work I feel youd be the one to do it correctly
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 22, 2011 21:05:15 GMT -5
Everyone has their own ideas about what is acceptable and what isn't . Nice to see a dialogue about such things that remain civil. For some people the fashion show is the most critical thing. (That's fine) for some folks it's the feeling of "being there" and I for one think a reasonably well done vehicle contributes to that. It cretaes excitement and stimulates an event that goes beyond normal weekend airsoft skirmishes in ways that great impressions alone won't do.
There is however a fine line between acceptable and hokey and like any of the conversions done "acceptable" is going to vary by degree with each and everyone. What cool and wonderful to one person is Flaggrantly Wrong and comical to another. Neither party is wrong they're just different. The same persons opinion can change over time. I built half scale Panthers at one time for use in a series of paintball games. At the time I thought they were really cool. In hindsite they were really really hokey. Am I sorry I did them. Heck no!!!! We had a ball and my son and I had a great time building them. I would do it again but this time I would have made them as Hetzers. The infidelity of scale would have been far more visually acceptable (to say nothing for the ease of production) and the imapct they had on the event would have remained the same. Planning and deploying an attack (or defense) with armored vehicles as part of the tactics and positioning of CO2 powered anti tank elements was awesome.
There is also no doubt that promoting their presence helped attendance considerably as the smallest event had 60 people at it and the largest one had 240!
|
|
|
Post by shadycadence on Jan 24, 2011 8:27:23 GMT -5
Wow, this conversation made me realize just how spoiled we are in the Ostfront! Between the Ba64, the '38 ford with the Pak and the '41 ford, vehicles are just a reality to us. Add in those that are "in the works", and they're an integral part of the battle. (opposing armor= ) So long as it works visually, I'd say go for it. Much like the uniform "10 foot rule", vehicles that look good from, say 100 yards, I would call a go. I wonder how feasible a "golf cart Willy's" would be.
|
|
|
Post by Rekkon on Jan 24, 2011 15:41:44 GMT -5
Indeed Shady. In fact I have noted at a few of our events that I felt vehicles were used too much, giving us no infantry-only time. It is great to have them, do not get me wrong, but in games with only 30-40 players they really tend to dominate the field. The scenarios became less "where is the enemy attacking" and more "where is the vehicle attacking." Likely my perspective is a bit skewed since I focus so much on AT, making me the primary sap that was always running back and forth trying to stay ahead of the BA-64, and if I got time to engage a few infantry, so much the better. It is really interesting to observe how "tank hardened" the units of the MOA have become. I particularly notice it when I attend other (typically modern) events where there are a large number of players that have never before fought armor. I have seen whole squads panic and flee wholesale. Almost a rule they lack AT, but they have also not figured out that a tank driver cannot generally distinguish between soldiers holding because they have AT and those holding as a bluff that they have AT. As our armored car driver can tell you, he can usually distinguish between those fleeing in panic and those trying to sucker him into a trap. He does not like advancing without infantry though, so if troops lacking AT can buckle down and pick off his support, they can often convince the armor to back off.
|
|
Ersatzjack
Corporal
"That silly Franz... he thinks we are winning."
Posts: 1,093
|
Post by Ersatzjack on Jan 26, 2011 11:05:59 GMT -5
It is really interesting to observe how "tank hardened" the units of the MOA have become. Speak for yourself. I curl up in the fetal position and put my thumb in my mouth whenever I hear Natasha rumble towards me. Even the sound of passing cars on his country road have me diving for cover. I won't feel safe until I'm on the inside looking out of our own armored response.
|
|
shutzefritz
Private
There is room for all of god's creatures ... right next to the mashed potatoes
Posts: 38
|
Post by shutzefritz on Jan 26, 2011 14:29:37 GMT -5
It seems a natural and inevitable progression to incorporate armor in any Ostfront engagement. After all Grenadier tactics would require this to some degree. IMHO. With respect, Fritz
Otto thanks for the clarification on the fetal position, I was assuming it was just "nap time".
|
|
ersatzjack2
Private 1st Class
"We can still win this thing, once the secret weapons arrive."
Posts: 612
|
Post by ersatzjack2 on Jan 26, 2011 15:35:08 GMT -5
Well I don't get fetal but when Natasha heads my way I always have a curious urge to find the nearest porty potty or outhouse.
|
|
shutzefritz
Private
There is room for all of god's creatures ... right next to the mashed potatoes
Posts: 38
|
Post by shutzefritz on Jan 26, 2011 23:39:29 GMT -5
I am all for Charley November's creative creation but I am not ready for a half track porta-potty conversion. With respect, Fritz
|
|
|
Post by CharleyNovember on Jan 27, 2011 0:21:02 GMT -5
The applesauce -track has a nice ring to it actually.
|
|
|
Post by Rekkon on Jan 27, 2011 10:22:45 GMT -5
Well maybe it is just me then. After one event where I lost a kill to lack of AT and was forced to scuttle around behind a tree as Natasha passed, I vowed never to take the field without a panzerwurfmine again. Grenades just do not cut it. Like trying to make a three-point shot against a moving target (that shoots back). Now when I see the BA-64 rolling against us, my thoughts are more "ooo tank destruction badge credit" and less "oh crap, we are all going to die."
|
|
|
Post by FlyingSquirrelcat on Feb 4, 2011 22:59:38 GMT -5
Unfortunately, It's hard to make it realistic when pyrotechnics and such are out of the question. However, it's a lot better than the crap they try to pass of at my local field for their half day "scenarios"...they had guys walking around with triangles on sticks that represented tanks. I mean the spirit of the idea was golden, but when put into action it was as pointless as Helen Keller in an art museum. I think they also had some queer way of taking them out to by lobbing an "explosive"(a painted Dr. pepper bottle) at it and screaming "BOOM!!". So, from my point of view at least, vehicles don't make the atmosphere unless they are very well crafted or preserved. I think the number one player in the atmosphere is actually the field. If you've got a very well put together skirmish area I think it will be the biggest contributer to the overall historical atmosphere of the scenario. I mean look at modern fields, they focus on improving the layout of there various mock cities and buildings to make them feel more real. Our local field has a four story building with quite a few rooms, stair cases, windows, and a roof with built-in belays for repelling into windows. Although modern milism isn't my cup of tea, it is really sweet to watch the assault team storm the Us Embassy to disable a foreign terrorist syndicate holding a group of US ambassadors hostage. That example also embodies the other major factor in making a more realistic atmosphere, the plot and tactical planning. Thats self explanatory though so not much to go into other than historical accuracy and well thought out objectives also make the game. But than again, that's ust my two cents so take it for what it's worth.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 29, 2015 18:57:24 GMT -5
Some of the things experienced at BF events that have been rolled into my airsoft events have really paid dividends for ambiance but they require both time and money. I try to have realistic signage and encampments. Communal meals with a chowline is a great touch as is mailcall a simulated speech from the unit Chaplin, good realistic mission briefs or warning orders. Chrono process done like a firing range and other touches.
Objectives always should look like what they depict. radar or communications center, supply depot, observation lost, bunkers etc.
|
|