CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
|
Post by CptJericho on Oct 22, 2009 17:10:23 GMT -5
Oh yeah i forgot to say if i would buy a well priced garand , a little late considering that i am the author, but yeah i would buy one, and my friend would probably buy one too.
|
|
Seff
Private
.30-06 - Turning Cover into Concealment since 1906
Posts: 344
|
Post by Seff on Oct 24, 2009 14:10:10 GMT -5
Another option is to make a more durable Garand that operates on CO2, contained in the clip. You'd make the clip non-ejecting in this case. I've been looking at it, and it shouldn't be completely impossible to make at all.
|
|
Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
|
Post by Sgt_Tom on Oct 24, 2009 14:16:16 GMT -5
Yes there are a lot of good gas guns like the Tanaka Kar98. It would definately be the best way to make an M1 Garand. Although why couldn't the gas be stored in the buttstock?
|
|
CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
|
Post by CptJericho on Oct 24, 2009 14:23:07 GMT -5
i have to admit i hate gas, its expensive, and the operating system is way more complex compaired to electric
|
|
Seff
Private
.30-06 - Turning Cover into Concealment since 1906
Posts: 344
|
Post by Seff on Oct 24, 2009 15:03:29 GMT -5
Yes there are a lot of good gas guns like the Tanaka Kar98. It would definately be the best way to make an M1 Garand. Although why couldn't the gas be stored in the buttstock? I don't know about US WWII fights, but ours get pretty intensive, which means that I'd hate to have to open the gun up to insert a fresh CO2 thingy while reloading. I'd rather have 32 clips and then changing CO2 thingies when I'm back in the loading zone. Gas is expensive and suffers in cold weather, but the system itself is a LOT simpler than an AEG, and thus a lot more reliable if made correctly. I've had AEGs puke their guts out a lot more than my KJW 1911 has jammed.
|
|
deacon
Private 1st Class
Posts: 748
|
Post by deacon on Oct 24, 2009 18:22:28 GMT -5
Another option is to make a more durable Garand that operates on CO2, contained in the clip. You'd make the clip non-ejecting in this case. I've been looking at it, and it shouldn't be completely impossible to make at all. So basically Smokey's Garand, only homemade.
|
|
Seff
Private
.30-06 - Turning Cover into Concealment since 1906
Posts: 344
|
Post by Seff on Oct 24, 2009 19:52:24 GMT -5
Yeah, only non-sucky.
A man can dream, right?
|
|
Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
|
Post by Sgt_Tom on Oct 24, 2009 21:18:49 GMT -5
Are they simple enough to be homemade? ;D Dreaming is more fun the doing
|
|
Seff
Private
.30-06 - Turning Cover into Concealment since 1906
Posts: 344
|
Post by Seff on Oct 25, 2009 3:33:48 GMT -5
I supposed it might be possible to make one, but it'd take a lot of parts, most of them closer to RS specifications than to Airsoft specifications. If I were to make more than one I'd hire someone with a CNC machine to make parts.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 25, 2009 11:59:40 GMT -5
Think about the premise which is to offer a Garand at UNDER 250.00 your fantasy is wonderful of course but I'm afraid with a goal of offering a commercial, viable offering at under Garand your concept is out of bounds. (Unless I'm missing something?)
I see where someone is selling pretty darn decent Garand replicas made in Italy for 288.00 plus shipping on Ebay. (Pretty continual listings) They don't shoot anything of course but they could provide the main components for such a project. Just add the internals for (...? cost) and the labor for doing the build for (....? cost) Hmmmmm I guess that's why they wanted $1500.00 for a smokeys Garand which didn't work well.
Would be cool though.
|
|
Seff
Private
.30-06 - Turning Cover into Concealment since 1906
Posts: 344
|
Post by Seff on Oct 25, 2009 13:03:16 GMT -5
Under $250 would be nice, but there's almost no way to make a functional gas blowback Garand at that price - I got sidetracked by the idea that you could make a blowback CO2 M1 in the first place, and have been working out the detail in my head.
|
|
Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
|
Post by Sgt_Tom on Oct 25, 2009 14:42:41 GMT -5
I'd say drop the blowback if you tried it. It just complicates things.
|
|
CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
|
Post by CptJericho on Oct 25, 2009 15:39:04 GMT -5
ya just make it simple, no blowback, no gas
|
|
|
Post by tinydata on Oct 25, 2009 19:10:32 GMT -5
you could make a blowback M1 for under $250. Look at it, the WA M4 CQBR came out for $560 some. The now AGM came out with a decent replica for $123 plus shipping. JG did even better at an astounding $73 some. The Marushin Garand design already exists...the WA system is complicated and still the Chinese cloned it for cheap
the only question is why they'd want to spend so much time doing it that way for so few sales
my idea was to use something from classic airsoft...nice and simple. Except without the external rig- just use a CO2 capsule. (or green gas reservoir- a big one)
|
|
CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
|
Post by CptJericho on Oct 25, 2009 20:14:43 GMT -5
SO FEW SALES!?!?!?!??! HAVE YOU LOOKED AT HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE READ 2ND BATS RESPONSES THREAD AND 2ND VERSION GARAND THREAD, BOTH COMBINED HAVE OVER 15,000 VIEWS!!!
|
|
|
Post by tinydata on Oct 27, 2009 15:52:14 GMT -5
Less than 350 rifles (sorry 2ndBat, no offense intended) is not lots of sales. I'm merely pointing out the business aspect- if you can sell over 20,000 AK replicas or M4s, why produce something that will not perform as well?
|
|
Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
|
Post by Sgt_Tom on Oct 27, 2009 16:43:17 GMT -5
2nd Bat's rifles are custom, they aren't for sale in Airsoft stores, or at online Airsoft stores, they also cost $560. This brings up is this guy legit, I don't have $560 to spend, and simply most people won't come across 2nd Bat on the WWII Airsoft forum. Any person who has sold more then 100 custom rifles is doing pretty good. If he was advertised on sites like Airsoft GI he would get a ton more sales especially if he sold them for $200 or less. The demand is certainly there.
|
|
CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
|
Post by CptJericho on Oct 27, 2009 20:40:41 GMT -5
exactly SgtTom, with no advertising and such a high cost not that many people are interested (but with 15,000 views you know there is a ton of intrest), but if he advertised, reduced cost to $250, then he would be selling them left and right, the only way 2nd bat could keep up is if he moved to china and opened a factory. but that wouldnt be any fun would it?
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 27, 2009 23:35:37 GMT -5
The only way costs can be kept below $250 if is with production machinery geared up for high volume sales. Injection molded parts, pre stamped metal components etc. Many of the parts needed already exists so the ramp up cost would be considerably lower than a whole new ground up design. Even so to set up volume production would be an R&D outlay probably in the $20.000 range (Even if done in China) Amortizing that against 100 sales requires a very high price point but amortizing it against 1000 plus begins to get pretty reasonable. I believe with a price point under 250.00 an M1 Garand with the quality of a CYMA or AGM M14 would quickly sell in the thousands of units annually and would provide a manufactorer a nice return and at least for a while an exclusive market. Surely a single manufacturer making the Garand M1 would outsell the six seperate Chinese manufacturers making M14s.
I have done everything I could to keep the price point as low as possible and still find it worthwhile to build them. In it's current iteration I can't really build a whole lot more than I currently build unless I quit working and there is no way the sales could support that. I have thought of some things that could reduce my costs by 100 per gun but like everything it requires front capital of many thousands of dollars I don't have. I'd risk it if I wasn't always expecting the Chinese to suddently enter the market with a $200.00 Garand which of course would immediately make my offering moot. Given the tremendous impact it would have on WW2 airsoft there is nothing that would make me happier.
The availability of an ever increasing selection of WW2 authentic guns will bust open WW2 airsoft in a way that is frankly dependant on an affordable wide selction of quality guns. The fact that a garage business has sold nearly 300 a small manufacturer like AZR has probably doubled that and probably another 300 again have been home built has to tell the manufacturers something!
I'm really hoping to be out of the Garand building business sometime in the next 18 months but I've given up holding my breath.
|
|
CptJericho
Private 1st Class
"We got to stop the Germans from getting the secret weapons!"
Posts: 495
|
Post by CptJericho on Oct 29, 2009 14:02:02 GMT -5
ok percentage news!
76.9% said they would buy one 20.5% said maybe 2.5% said no (im going to hunt down whoever put no)
So lets put this together, on the maybes we will split it 50/50 so half say no and half say yes
So with these calculations: 87.15% would buy one 12.75% would not buy one.
Chinese airsoft companys!!! 87.15% is quite a big number out of the people who voted there is a huge market for the garand, start crackin! no pun intended (the crackdown on airsoft companys)
|
|
|
Post by 10target on Sept 7, 2010 0:47:27 GMT -5
Oh yeah, Garands are going up up and away in price, (at least here in Kentucky and Ohio.) Since I already own a WWII issued garand I would buy the china made and sell it in a heartbeat.
|
|
|
Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 7, 2010 2:43:44 GMT -5
Dude check the date on this thread...and we are talking about airsoft Garands you know that right?
|
|
|
Post by 10target on Sept 7, 2010 14:53:33 GMT -5
Ooops, no. I had previously read a thread on real steel garands and forgot that this was not that.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 13, 2010 14:09:23 GMT -5
I had been quite optomistic about a Chinese company coming out with a reasonably priced M1 Garand AEG with the intorduction of the STEN, MP44 and pre-orders of the Matrix BAR but with the state of the Chinese airsoft industry currently, The inability to get the BAR produced and out and the fact that frankly too few people seem to have interest in a long low capacity, semi auto rifle that is heavy and not "High speed low drag" I'm beginning to think it just isn't going to happen.
Frustrating but probably reality I'm afraid. I've been waiting and anticipating ot for eight years now. What seemed so obviously marketable apparently isn't.
|
|
|
Post by Fusilier on Sept 13, 2010 16:41:31 GMT -5
I had been quite optomistic about a Chinese company coming out with a reasonably priced M1 Garand AEG with the intorduction of the STEN, MP44 and pre-orders of the Matrix BAR but with the state of the Chinese airsoft industry currently, The inability to get the BAR produced and out and the fact that frankly too few people seem to have interest in a long low capacity, semi auto rifle that is heavy and not "High speed low drag" I'm beginning to think it just isn't going to happen. Frustrating but probably reality I'm afraid. I've been waiting and anticipating ot for eight years now. What seemed so obviously marketable apparently isn't. >> Kids today wanna spray and pray! Send a wall of plastic downrange. Thats what they grow up on,thats what they know.
|
|
|
Post by gman on Sept 13, 2010 16:42:15 GMT -5
Oooops my " incredibly numb pre pubiecent posters" radar just went off. I think we need a WW2AA intervention
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 13, 2010 18:02:43 GMT -5
It is what they know and while everyone has a right to their own interpretation about what airsoft play should be like the fact that 99% of them want the high speed, low drag, full auto mega magazine paintsoft experience that results in manufacturers not recognizing a market for historically significant rifles that would support our version of airsoft.
It's discouraging as hell but sadly it is our reality and I guess I should count the blessings that have finally come since when I first got to thinking about WW2 airsoft the only WW2 weapons available any where were the Tanaka Kar 98 (Still an excellent airsoft gun) a cock it every time Carbine and the Thompson AEG was freshly released. Since then we've gotten the horrible Garand GBB and the even worse Grease gun GBB. The GBB carbine which was a step back from the 6mm, cock it everytime. The un useable D Boys Kar 98 with shells copied from the equally ineffective Marushin. On the plus side the MP40 came out, a more affordable Thompson came out in AEG and The marvelous but expensive VFC BAR. The wonderful MP44 AEG and the PPSHs and the Sten. So choices have come up significantly. Unfortunately if it doesn't have a magazine and fire full auto no one seems interested in making it. Or if they do they want to build less than 50 of them and charge $2,000 for them.
Pretty grim! Much better than it used to be however!
|
|
Totez
Private
Smokey the Smoke Grenade Rabbit
Posts: 283
|
Post by Totez on Sept 13, 2010 21:02:04 GMT -5
I don't know about you guys but I would happily take a full-auto M1 Garand if they put it out there. they could make a mag to put in the bottom with a relatively large capacity and I would still eat it up like a fat kid eats cake. Full auto can be remedied easily and I think all of you could handle a high-cap M1 and/ or make your own mid/ low-caps.
In conclusion: ITS OK TO BUILD A HIGH-CAP FULL AUTO M1 GARAND COMPANIES OUT THERE TO APPEASE THE RUN-N-GUNNERS AND US! (We will fix it!)
|
|
|
Post by joemarkon on Jun 19, 2011 21:37:04 GMT -5
The way to sell high volumes of garands would be to make scope mounts for them and advertise them as sniper rifles, not assault rifles. If the chinese companies did this, all the "regular" airsofters would jump at the chance for a semi-auto sniper rifle. In that case, we'd get our dreams fulfilled, and the chinese could get their money out of it. The method of advertising this stuff is everything. We all know that a garand won't keep up with a hicap m4, but it will blow away a springer sniper rifle.
|
|
Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
|
Post by Sgt_Tom on Jun 19, 2011 21:59:36 GMT -5
They would sell either way I think.
|
|