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Post by schmitty on Nov 16, 2006 22:10:35 GMT -5
I started this project looking for a fairly cheap way of converting the cool but very un-reliable Hudson gas M3a1 Grease gun into something you could actually count on in combat. Grease gun AEG's aren't new. Both Gordak and I made them a couple years ago from TM P-90 (ver VI) gearboxes. And although they work very well the scale fidelity is not great, on my original M3 the bottom cover is longer and wider than scale to accommodate the gearbox and motor. Also I was hoping to find a way to do this cheap and easy so that it could easily be duplicated. I have had 2 Hudson M3a1 bodys waiting for conversion for some time (Thanks to our friend Guinness ) and I decided it was time to try something. While I don't know if this could be considered cheap or easy the end product actually turned out quite good with a few interesting features. It uses a TM MP-7 gearbox, hop-up and barrel. and chronos at 247 FPS which may seem low compared to other AEG's but fits perfectly with the goals of most WWII airsofters wanting to keep SMG's power on the low side (making bolt actions and heavy MG's worth the trade off). The gearbox fits nicely inside the Grease gun body. I made a brass bracket to hold it in place at the rear and a wooden guide glued to the modified bolt cover centers the gearbox at the front. A washer with two bolts centers the barrel and hop-up with the gearbox. it can be disassembled very quickly and easily. That's the fuse you can see below the gearbox. A spring loaded door opens at the rear to access the battery. The battery pictured is a 7.4v 1350 mah Li-poly but there is plenty of room for a fairly large nicad or nimh. The mp-7 runs on 7.2v (6 cells) not 8.4v like most AEG's. The real M3a1 has virtually no safety. Closing the ejection port cover stops the bolt from moving but they are prone to accidentally firing if dropped (even from a closed bolt!!). The Hudson gas version has an ugly non-scale and finicky to use knob protruding from the bottom, I got rid of it and filled the hole. My version has a somewhat odd but very clever safety mechanism. I did not use a relay in the electrical circuit as I have often done in previous customs, Instead a heavy duty momentary switch is located inside the pistol grip and a heavy duty on-off switch is in front of the trigger. You push forward on the trigger to turn the gun on or off. There is one minor scale infidelity but it is hardly noticeable and can only be seen when the stock is extended. You can see a small part of the motor (2nd picture) which is painted flat black. The Magazine (I've only made one so far) is a real M3 magazine with TM Thompson low cap internals. It would also be possible to make mid or high caps. Is it worth it? I can't say for sure but if you want to make a more useful weapon out of your Hudson grease gun it can be done for around $300. You would need a TM MP-7 and at least one real grease gun mag. You could probably sell off the MP-7 body, battery and mag for $40-50 to someone who uses an MP-7. You could also probably sell your Hudson M3 mag and internals to someone who wants to persevere with the gas version. It wasn't too hard to build (compared to other customs I've done) and could be easier without some of the frills I added (Safety, battery door and bolt gearbox cover), but mounting the gearbox and hop up was a bit tricky. Schmitty
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Post by 101steasykid on Nov 16, 2006 22:26:50 GMT -5
wow, looks fantastic! I should really think about doing this. Ive tended to shy away from ww2aa, and got into incountry, sorry guys, but this gun could work for both vietnam and late ww2. I'll look into
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 17, 2006 1:07:57 GMT -5
As always Schmitty you're amazing. I used the Grease gun AEG you reffered to earlier at Hac Bao last weekend and lent it to Sgt Kenn Miller who really enjoyed it and put it to good use. I also used it for one mission and must say the small size is quite nice. In the terrain we were in the MP7 power would have been fine and I agree with the notion of keeping sub machine guns less powerful then main battle rifles.
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Post by Gordak on Nov 17, 2006 11:39:38 GMT -5
OMG!!!!!!!!
-Gordak
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 17, 2006 12:56:27 GMT -5
I love the trap door access to the battery and a safety really is a nice feature on AEG especially if you have a low trigger pull. Like you I always hated the HUDSON design safety.
So are you going to make them commercially available? (Schmitty always hates it when I ask such things!) At some dollar amount it should be worthwhile to do. If it's too high for the market to bear at least folks will have the option and be able to decide if it's something they're willing to do. I know the hard part is figuring out the value of your time. Also knowing you can minimize the time by building several at once and then wondering if they'll sell. It can be frustrating. I certainly would enthusiastically endorse the quality of your work. I love my AEG Greaser!
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napalm
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Post by napalm on Nov 17, 2006 14:14:32 GMT -5
Looks great! If you ever decided to sell these I'd be one of your first customers!
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Post by 101steasykid on Nov 17, 2006 16:21:05 GMT -5
napalm, you are soooo ignorent! i would be his first customer, lol jk, but yes, sell sell sell! if you got time
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napalm
Private
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Post by napalm on Nov 17, 2006 17:53:41 GMT -5
Hahaha. We'll flip a coin ;-)
Hey schmitty. That IS the plastic bodied hudson right? For some reason everytime I look at it it looks metal... I've seen and worked on a Hudson Grease gun before and it certainly didnt look that good!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 17, 2006 21:03:17 GMT -5
Mettalizer paints can give plastic a very authentic look (especially with a little detail finish work) The HUDSON grease gun is a very decent replica from a looks and weight perspective.
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savoy6
Private 1st Class
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Post by savoy6 on Nov 18, 2006 13:40:54 GMT -5
well ive got a M3 with a stripped set of bolt tabs that would be ripe for this...id love to have one as an AEG.i also have that cheap spring POS that broke after about 1 hour of actual use.it's a good bit bigger than the hudson though..
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Russianboy
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Post by Russianboy on Nov 18, 2006 13:48:09 GMT -5
Thats very nice looking. What happens if the gears or piston strip were would you get the new parts? IDK, it would suck to have to buy a whole new MP7 if some thing broke.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Nov 18, 2006 17:22:34 GMT -5
Could the same thing be done with the MP7 into one of the Marusin Non Gun MP40s?
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Post by 101steasykid on Nov 18, 2006 17:56:54 GMT -5
well im guessing anything could be modded into a AEG, just the problem is space, if you cant fit a mp7 motor in it, it cant be done
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Post by schmitty on Nov 19, 2006 19:33:30 GMT -5
Originally I was trying to figure out a way to build these to sell but to be honest it was quite a bit of work to build and I don't think most people would be willing to pay me enough to make it worth while, but as usual I highly encourage anyone to have a go themselves, and would be glad to help as needed.
I have one more Hudson body so I will make and sell at least one. A broken bolt Hudson is a perfect candidate for this conversion and is just begging to have this done to it.
Yes, this is the plastic bodied Hudson grease gun. I Did a few things to improve the looks including, Sanding off all the plastic mold lines. Filled in the Hudson logo and Japanese trades with polyester filler (bondo). It was painted flat black, then polished with silicone oil then dry brushed with a little silver metallic (mostly on the edges) and sprayed with flat clear over everything.
The Mp-7 gearbox could be made to fit in the Marushin MP-40 cap gun. In fact I think it's a very good idea.
Schmitty
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Post by binarypunisher on Nov 19, 2006 20:09:41 GMT -5
Gearbox still too big for the FG?
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Post by Jager.Drü on Nov 19, 2006 23:06:58 GMT -5
If someone could get all the parts together to make Mp7 into MP40, how much would just the building of the custom be? Also would it be cheaper than the TOP MP40 in the long haul?
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Post by schmitty on Nov 20, 2006 21:34:28 GMT -5
Binary:Believe it or not as tiny as the Mp-7 gearbox is, it doesn't easily fit the FG-42. It's small but fairly tall. I also think the FG-42 should have more power since the real gun fires rifle ammo. I would like to accept you or Johns offer to examine and measure a TM M-14 gearbox.
Jager Drew: I think a MP-40 custom could be made for around $600 or so. Not cheaper than a Top MP-40 unless you consider including the PGC gearbox conversion needed to make a decent reliable weapon out of the Top version which brings the Top gun up to about $1000.
Schmitty
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Post by Jager.Drü on Nov 20, 2006 21:37:32 GMT -5
$600 in labor or with the blank gun and mp7?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 20, 2006 23:01:21 GMT -5
Schmitty I will call and arrange to bring a M-14 over to your store and have another salvage job for you on a gun you already know.
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Post by binarypunisher on Nov 20, 2006 23:13:25 GMT -5
The Battlesim store also has a G&G M14 there as well if you want to take a look.
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Post by schmitty on Nov 21, 2006 11:06:42 GMT -5
Drew: around$300 labor. 2nd bat: Thanks very much. look forward to hearing from you.
Schmitty
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 21, 2006 13:40:30 GMT -5
I think you could sell a half dozen in a year at $600.00 Maybe more. It's a limited market for sure but there is a demand. Got knows you can source a half dozen Hudson Gas shells for cheap enough!
As for an earlier question. If the MP7 internals went bad they could be repaired and replaced in much the same way one would repair a damaged MP7 In fact the capacity would be there for upgrades and refinements as they become available for the MP-7. As with any upgrade you of course would reduce your weapons durability and reliability.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Nov 22, 2006 17:37:12 GMT -5
PM'd you about MP40 custom.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 23, 2006 3:24:06 GMT -5
It's remarkable with all the manufacturers in the MP-40 market that no one yet makes as good an AEG as Schmittys custom MP-40. It shoots harder, is more reliable and looks fantastic. I know someone teased him about getting it done only to have the TOP version come out right afterwards. No regrets on Schmittys part based on the way that POS came out.
I absolutely love the job Schmitty did on my Grease gun and have used it extensively and had tons of compliments and some frankly embarrasing offers to buy it. I know there is a market for the Grease gun in an AEG and probably still a market for a well done MP-40. We keep hearing about all these things manufacturers are planning to do but they always seem to take forever. MP-40 from SRC? M2 carbine from Marushin. What is taking these folks so long?
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Post by Jager.Drü on Nov 23, 2006 11:55:40 GMT -5
I was thinking like how he did the Grease gun with the MP7, he could do a MP40 he same way. I'm offering $800, but he hasn't been on to check his PMs
From schmitty "Jager Drew: I think a MP-40 custom could be made for around $600 or so. Not cheaper than a Top MP-40 unless you consider including the PGC gearbox conversion needed to make a decent reliable weapon out of the Top version which brings the Top gun up to about $1000."
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Post by schmitty on Nov 23, 2006 12:43:44 GMT -5
Sorry Drew I didn't notice the PM until you mentioned it. I would be willing to do the labor for $300 to convert either a Hudson grease gun or a Marushin MP-40 if you (or anyone) provided the necessary parts.
Marushin mp40=$240 with shipping, TM MP-7=$230 with shipping. parts to make one mag (high or low cap)=$35. Misc other parts $50 (battery switches etc.) +$300 my labor. Total=$855
Is it worth it? I can't say. It's getting close to what it costs to make a Top into a decent weapon and the Top would be full metal where the Marushin has a fair bit of plastic (although it still looks and feels great)
It's also possible to use a TM AK (verIII) type gearbox in the marushin but takes more conversion work so would cost more.
At $300 I'm not making much for my effort. I mean there are quicker and easier ways for me to make a dollar. I am always hoping that someone will just duplicate what I have already done and give it a try themselves, Building custom weapons is a fun and rewarding hobby.
Drew: since you are local to me if you wanted to attempt a build yourself I am always available to help.
Schmitty
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Post by Jager.Drü on Nov 23, 2006 12:54:12 GMT -5
If I was going to do this, I would have you do the gear box work and I could do the small stuff like mags or something. "Marushin mp40=$240 with shipping" with shipping added on top of that or 240 shipped?
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Post by schmitty on Nov 23, 2006 13:03:11 GMT -5
Doing part of the work would be great. Last I checked you can buy the Marushin Cap gun MP-40 for about $180 on WGC. With shipping it's around $220-240 (me thinks?) If you buy the mp-7 and Mp-40 plus battery and mags all together you can probably save a bit on shipping.
Schmitty
Schmitty
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Post by Jager.Drü on Nov 23, 2006 13:06:30 GMT -5
What would we do for the mags? Real steel MP40 mags with or what?
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Post by schmitty on Nov 23, 2006 14:19:28 GMT -5
The Marushin comes with one mag. You could use a TM thompson or Uzi mag to convert the Marushin into an airsoft mag. I would recommend starting with a hi-cap simply because it's cheaper and if you only have one mag to begin with I would rather have a hi-cap. You can make more low caps as time and money allow.
Schmitty
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