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Post by captainbrenandsten on Jun 20, 2010 18:51:58 GMT -5
would an M65 field jacket be useable in a ww2 airsoft battle? or is it too modern?
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jun 20, 2010 18:58:23 GMT -5
M65 is more of a Nam era article. You can find a unifrom pretty reasonable.
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Post by Fusilier on Jun 20, 2010 19:04:37 GMT -5
Nope.The M65 has a zipper,and the pockets have snaps.
Do your research! Look for good uniform books.I find that most of the fun! Thats why my research library is so big!
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Post by captainbrenandsten on Jun 20, 2010 19:14:25 GMT -5
well i live in an area where there arn't many ww2 stores and i dont like internet ordering except for airsoft guns. but if i cant get the m43 jacket would this be a good stand in
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jun 20, 2010 19:23:05 GMT -5
No it would be a really bad stand in. There is no stand in stand ins are a waste of your money and time. Stand ins are useful when people are not sure if they want to do WW2 airsoft. In that case just by some OD BDU's and have at it. If you are already interested then jsut save your money and buy the right gear from the get go.
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Post by Fusilier on Jun 20, 2010 19:28:31 GMT -5
No it would be a really bad stand in. There is no stand in stand ins are a waste of your money and time. Stand ins are useful when people are not sure if they want to do WW2 airsoft. In that case just by some OD BDU's and have at it. If you are already interested then jsut save your money and buy the right gear from the get go. >> What he said. SAVE your hard earned cash,DO your own research,and get the right guns and gear. And what do you have against ordering anything but AS guns on the internet? You can basically do one stop shopping for a complete uniform on any of a number of decent vendors. Don't settle for something that is "close enough". If you're serious about getting into WW2 AS, do it right the first time.Trust me,you'll be glad you did!
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Post by heinrich42 on Jun 20, 2010 22:01:49 GMT -5
I can only echo what has been said above. Definately buy the right stuff the first time, it will save you tons of money in the long run.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Jun 20, 2010 22:47:28 GMT -5
I know you don't like internet buying buts its a good way to get stuff. Try it. I'd suggest ebay. Search WWII jacket or M43 jacket. They often come up cheap on there.
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Post by heinrich42 on Jun 20, 2010 22:51:57 GMT -5
Depending on what size you are, I have seen original M43s on Ebay go for around $25.
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Jun 21, 2010 0:05:01 GMT -5
So instead of jumping on his ass for wanting to use an M65 , how about we educate the kid on the difference between the 2 models? The M43 is on the Left and the M65 on the Right , the M43 is oddly enough '43 dated , the M65 is '69 dated. They have the same basic cut , the M43 is in the dark Olive Drab color , while the M65 is in the lighter Olive Green 107 Here you can see the difference in the cuffs , the M43 uses the dark "chocolate" buttons , while the M65 uses Velcro The M43 uses the large "chocolate" buttons to close it up in the front While the M65 uses an Aluminum zipper and snaps to close. On this photo you can see that the pockets are the same size , the only way to tell them apart is to lift up the pocket flap , then you can see that the M43 uses the large button while the M65 uses a snap closure On this shot you can see that the collars are different , the M43 has a detachable hood that buttons up when needed , while the M65 has an internal hood that is hidden inside the jacket by an Aluminum zipper , you will also notice that the epaulets are similar , but the M43 uses the large button , while the M65 uses the smaller button On this final photo you can see that the collars are of a different shape between the 2 models While it is possible to turn an M65 into a very close stand in for an M43 , you will need to put a lot of work into it , also take into account the fact that M65s are also getting a little bit harder to find in OG107 , you see more of the Woodland camo ones than the OG107 ones , plus Vietnam era M65s are getting more expensive than WWII M43s. Besides Ebay , you can also look in antique shops , flea markets and thrift stores for M43s , who knows you might get lucky and find one , i have 4 in my collection and 2 of them came from thrift stores , one was free ( a gift from a WWII vet) and the 4th one i bought at a flea market for $5 , so be patient and take your time looking around.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jun 21, 2010 0:21:02 GMT -5
Telling someone that an M65 is NOT a WW2 jacket and that it is a waste of his money is not "jumping on his ass" It's trying to save him headaches and money in the long run. I've done both no reason for this guy to follow my mistakes if he can help it.
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Post by captainbrenandsten on Jun 21, 2010 8:44:19 GMT -5
well thanks all and i'll see if i can get an m43 from ebay.
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Post by Fusilier on Jun 21, 2010 9:06:54 GMT -5
You're not helping here Adler..lol
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Post by captainbrenandsten on Jun 21, 2010 9:40:31 GMT -5
well i already have an OD M65. until i get the m43 would this be a good substitute?
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jun 21, 2010 10:01:16 GMT -5
If that is what you got until you can afford to get something better. I would definatley put that on the top of the list though.
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Post by Fusilier on Jun 21, 2010 10:08:21 GMT -5
Original M43's are sometimes less expensive than repops. I have two,and both were less than the repros out there.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Jun 21, 2010 10:31:33 GMT -5
I'd let you use it at my events until you can get something better. Frankly though you won't want to be wearing a jacket in summer battles. You won't really need it till winter or sometimes in fall. If you do infantry I'd suggest you get a a pair of 1937 Wool trousers and shirt. Just type in WWII Wool shirt or WWII wool pants on ebay and you should be able to get a good deal. I got two off there, one for $7 and the other for $13. If your a big guy though you'll not likely find originals that fit you. Then you have to go repro which can get expensive.
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Post by Fusilier on Jun 21, 2010 10:58:21 GMT -5
Or he can get a set of HBT's for the summer to hold him off.
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Post by captainbrenandsten on Jun 21, 2010 11:06:17 GMT -5
what are HBTs?
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Post by Fusilier on Jun 21, 2010 11:18:43 GMT -5
>> HERRINGBONE TWILL uniforms. Lightweight,made for summer wear.Its the weave in the material.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Jun 21, 2010 12:04:18 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jun 21, 2010 12:15:48 GMT -5
What a lot of folks new to the hobby don't know is how critical the standards are for events and the simple answer is this varies greatly from event to event and is a work in progress in many groups with a terrific movement toward increasingly more authentic impressions, gear and weapons.
The other thing a lot of folks don't realize is that wearing items that significantly fall short of the standards detracts greatly from the ambiance at the event and the immersive qualities that attracted most players in the first place.
When folks are new they simply don't know what they don't know. Until informed an M65 seems quite similar to an M43. At that level of familiarization showing up at an event with 10 guys in assorted green jackets and steel pots and having some folks wearing leggings would probably seem very much like a cool WW2 event. Certainly the first WW2 airsoft events I attended weren't far from that quality. I had a great time. I would have no interest in such an event at this point. Have I become an elitist snob? Perhaps What has happened is the group caught the bug and started doing more research, learned more, became more discriminating and over time raised the standards. In the process we attracted more and more people and the hobby grew both in numbers and the level of authenticity. In my opinion it became increasingly enjoyable simply because there was more depth to the event.
We have to realize that new people interested in participating are all at that stage we once were at and perhaps have a cluster of friends similarly unsure. Encouraging them to build toward is the right approach and Adlers nice tutorial is a great approach. Looking at the details the player can decide at this point how discriminating they want to be or how discriminating their group at this point can be.
Given that thrift shops still turn up a lot of the right stuff and affordably the suggestion that folks strive toward getting proper gear is a good one. This isn't snobbery as much as it is hard learned lessons from a lot of us folks who early on bought too much of the wrong stuff and didn't even know it. In many cases we paid just as much or more!
If you manage to fall in with a group that has already started this journey and is well on their way into the addiction you'll typically find there are members with extra stuff they are more than willing to loan out to supplement your look and in fact would rather do that then have you present in anachronistic gear.
This influenza of enthusiasm for all things WW2 is highly contagious and it sounds like you've started sneezing! Welome to the front.
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Post by heinrich42 on Jun 23, 2010 23:45:52 GMT -5
John, very well said!
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savoy6
Private 1st Class
Posts: 428
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Post by savoy6 on Jul 11, 2010 13:48:30 GMT -5
great write up john......we're still tending what garden there is down here for WW2 airsoft.....
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 15, 2010 19:22:21 GMT -5
Look how much more valuable and welcoming Adlers response was than a simple "No" It's those harsh "No's" no matter how soft the intent was that drives folks away and gives people the impression we're obsessed and a little nuts. (The fact is we are!) Without the side by side comparison folks new to the hobby fail to see why an M65 would look wrong and think it strange that we would so quickly dismiss it as wrong. Once the comparisons is laid out most people choose to do it right on the own volition or accept proper loaner gear.
It always bothered me when folks showed up clearly wrong and wouldn't accept the offers to borrow uniforms to get it right. I always thought they were uncomfortable in someone elses stuff but I think now in most cases they simply don't see tham as significantly different.
I'm doing Namsofting and I wore all the stuff and lugged the gear the details never meant a thing to me. I couldn't tell one Tiger stripe pattern from another and certainly didn't know M56 froom M67 gear. It was just gear and jungle fatigues. Cammies weren't ERDLs and Late war dense was just Tigers. I didn't know that my boots had stuching in the back of the heel and my oncho liner was supposed to have a seam down the middle. I never looked at dates or cared if someone used a butt pack or not. When the folks in the know felt abligated to correct me I was frankly offended. I now know that wasn't there intent. (In most cases) That whole aspect of Namsofting put me off initially and I suspect the same is true for WW2 airsofters just getting into the hobby if we aren't careful.
There is right way to coach and a wrong way. Adlers example is outstanding. It takes more time of course but it is infinitly more effective if we hope to see this hobby grow. Which I very much do.
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Post by hairy apple on Jul 15, 2010 20:10:56 GMT -5
Sounds wierd, but go check out thrift stores. I found an M43 (1945) for $30 at a goodwill. To 99% of people it's just an army jacket with little value other then a warm jacket... they have no idea what it is and donate it to goodwill or some other thrift store who also have no idea that it's anything other then a green jacket... then, you come along, know what it is, and get a good deal.
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Post by starkweather on Jul 15, 2010 20:37:44 GMT -5
I know I'm new to these boards, but I have to say, the initial responses to the op's question seemed kinda harsh. Thing is, from where I come from, I understand the intent. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the internet, any harsh statements will most defiantly be misread and misrepresented.
That said, Adler's post seemed the best by far. It was not simply a no or a "do it this way and save the headache (for you and us)" and did not question one's dedication to authenticity. It was an educated comparison that clearly stated why the item in question was not a good stand in for long term use.
Being that WW2 Airsoft is not taken seriously everywhere, I think we need to assess our situations on an individual basis. Holding such high standards here in WNY will mean that WW2 Airsofting will never ever happen. As such, it's a more grass roots approach. Sorta like starting Airsoft all over again.
Consider, this sport fits in a unique niche. It's not re-enacting and it's not airsofting. It's both, but it's different. Why would a re-enactor, who spends, in some cases thousands of dollars on the right gear and real guns (an possibly licenses for those guns), seek a "less realistic" experience? Why would an Airsofter spend hundreds of dollars on a WWII impression when they can get the same kick from a $50.00 BDU and an AK?
I know, having been playing airsoft for the past 2 years, I see airsoft can be just as realistic, just with no adult cap guns. I also know that there are many Airsofters that spend hundreds of dollars on the sport and have multiple modern impressions. The trick is getting the larger related communities to see this as valid.
To draw a quote from 2nd Bat, "There is right way to coach and a wrong way." Any seemingly harsh criticisms could conceivably turn people off. A lesser person than Captainbrenandsten could have taken offense to the initial tone in the answer to his question and turned to his modern war airsoft buddies and said these guys are wackos and it's not worth the effort. And then WW2 airsofting in the Hancock, Michigan area would have taken a step backwards.
It is still essential that higher levels of authenticity be aspired to. On the other hand, there is also no reason to allow others to stand on the backs of giants who have done the work and know the truth. People do need to conduct their own research.
Perhaps a better answer would have been to describe the differences in detail, as per Adler's example, citing the sources (or inserting photo examples from your own collection, as per Adler). This establishes yourself as an expert while providing a newcomer with a good source to find more information.
But basically, give the kid a break, he's just starting out. 6 months from now...that's when you "jump" on him.
P.S.: I'm not meaning to piss anyone off. If I'm out of line feel free to bonk me on the head. PM me and tell me I'm a dumb ass. It gets lonely over here. A PM to show you care would go a long way. lol.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jul 15, 2010 20:58:04 GMT -5
Dear sir I am so sorry I am an insensetive prick for pointing out the jacket was wrong and suggesting it would save you money in the long run if you bought a cheap but correct uniform to begin with. Or that perhaps you were unsure of weather or not you wanted to do WW2 airsoft and perhaps you might want to jsut give a game a whirl in what you had or a set of OD's. I hope this has not thrown you off the hobby too much and you will continue to strive to enjoy the hobby....whoa is me whoa is me I'm the silly pony I guess....FFS I give up...
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Post by CharleyNovember on Jul 15, 2010 21:13:52 GMT -5
Note~Above response is not to the original poster...it's for everyone else that seems to want to needle the point...
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Post by starkweather on Jul 15, 2010 21:27:15 GMT -5
Lol, your not an insensitive prick. Your first answer was just incomplete, but not at all a bad answer. "M65 is more of a Nam era article. You can find a unifrom pretty reasonable" leaves open follow up questions that someone just looking at what they have might not think to ask when they compare it with the TV or DVD.
Your right, it is a Nam article. There are ample stores of better articles out there. But for a one off game, where he sees you in your ober authentic M43...where you can show him the buttons and the snap closures and the zippers and velcro.
He'll get the idea. If not you can always bash him upside the head for being a dolt. I mean VELCRO...come on. I'm going to make a Luftwaffe leisure suit now.
"whoa is me whoa is me I'm the silly pony" I like this. I'm going to take it.
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