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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 5, 2010 16:21:57 GMT -5
My scenarios are points based. For an example you have one big objective that is worth 50 points and two smaller ones worth 25pnts. Decisions decisions....Do you take the big objective? Do you have the man power? Perhaps you are better suited tactically to go after one or both small objectives first. The decision lies with the commander. Along with this you add in standing orders of specific tasks to be completed anytime during the day like specific intel off a certain player or NPC that gains you extra points. Suddenly it makes sense for you to start stopping and searching combatants instead of just BB festing away. Perhaps you need to capture an officer or scientest and get him out of the AO..Wow maybe that medic and medic system IS important in this mission. So forth and so on. Honestly some players just show up to shoot but most historical airsofters like to think a little and pull a trigger a little ...and talk about thier uniforms and gear a whole hell of a lot. It's just a better crowd to deal with and one that usually does and should expect a little more thought into the missions and overall scenario.
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Post by FlyingSquirrelcat on Oct 5, 2010 17:45:50 GMT -5
I gotta say that it does sound kind of fun. Like at first I thought it was a really gay idea but now that you put it in perspective like that it doesn't sound bad at all. I mean when I hear the term points I think of Galaga or PAC-MAN but like I guess if you just never mentioned it like than it would be fun. I don't know but like can you kind of understand what I mean by it would sound really gay if the kids were all like (Yeah, we can take the bunker across the Field for a whopping 25 points, Hooray!) But like I understand that the level of maturity is higher with yall so I guess it wouldn't really matter what you call it. Oh, and forgive me the Apostrophe button on my keyboard is not working so I had to put them in parentheses. ..and the apostrophes you do see are from spell check, because I appreciate a some what accurate grammar when speaking
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Post by whiterook on Oct 5, 2010 18:48:56 GMT -5
.... Like at first I thought it was a really gay idea but now OK, first off this comment is in no way a derogatory remark to this Squirrel fellow ... and I'm sure he meant the term "gay" in it's new, modern context ... i.e. "lame" ... but if he can use the term gay then I want to be able to use the term "kraut" within its historical context ... i.e. "a German solider" ... Fair is fair.. NOTE: ... this is all being said in jest ;D ----------------------------------------------------------------- More to the point, CN I like your point system.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 5, 2010 19:21:59 GMT -5
Some people hate it...lol I have had someone say they have too much to do before. I told them that was the point. Often times in real life you have more objectives then time or men. Prioritize and drive on..
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Post by FlyingSquirrelcat on Oct 5, 2010 20:46:04 GMT -5
OK, No I actually meant it sounds Gay as in homosexual. I mean dude, come on Its got sas and like the preppy girl talk back written all over it. And now I don't mind if you use the term kraut because honestly Ive seen Jap written all over the place so I don't really see the difference. But thats just me so Don't go around and make a bunch of comments just because of my rather open-minded lingo. Just sayin I'm also sorry If I offended you CN. I didn't mean like I think that know I'm just putting that little Didi out there. I personally think the idea is very innovative and would work really well for a much larger scale scenario. I just thought some of the terminology sounds a little queer at first sight. Forgive me If I did irritate you a little with that remark.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 5, 2010 21:02:35 GMT -5
Rook mentioned he was saying it in jest dude nobody is offended. Your comments don't irritate me. I have been doing these scenarios for multiple years and people keep coming back and new guys too so I don't worry to much if an odd person here or there doesn't get it. Not a big deal man.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 5, 2010 22:46:53 GMT -5
A simple scenario that works well is to establish road blocks (two or three) with barriers in place and task one side or with the assignment to defend the barriers for a set period of time and the other has the assignment to overewealm the defenders sufficient to place explosives on the barriers and breach the road block(s). Because the defenders have more than one to defend they have to decide how to allocate their forces. They can have a roving element or two stationary or heavy up on one location. The attackers can attempt to take out both, only focus on one, do a diversion etc. Once the time frame is up, sides rotate and the attackers become the defenders. To facilitate the odds required for attackers vs defenders you can give the defenders fewer "reinforcements" by way of numbers of respawns or a medical clearing station farther away. In addition to the attack plan the offense has to plan how to block and screen reinforcements while the demolitions are being set.
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Post by FlyingSquirrelcat on Oct 6, 2010 4:47:55 GMT -5
haha ok, just making sure. And it does sound like a jolly good time, I just thought the whole point thing sounded a bit off at first.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 6, 2010 19:53:18 GMT -5
If you "Play" airsoft and are overly obsessed with points or winning you're probably missing the main point which is to have fun and jump into a Walter Mitty fantasy experience but structure,purpose and objectives do not detract from that if done well. I'm not fan of raising flags or knocking over road cones etc but to facilitate structure means to finalize mission objectives clearly and mutually understood by both sides is essential. I like those touch points to be more in sync with a military simulation so planting a demo charge or searching an objective, recovering intel or seizing and holding strategic ground is more rewarding for me. That's my preference anyway.
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Gerry
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Post by Gerry on Nov 19, 2010 10:07:08 GMT -5
We had a good one at Ground zero for our last event. It worked well, I think it may have been a little bit confusing since it was a new type system for us but I think 90% of the folks understood it. It worked really well and was well received by many players!
*They were attack and defend scenarios timed at 60 minutes.
*All players were only permitted to enter the field with full mags, no loose ammo, no speedloaders no reloading mags during the 60 minutes
*Attackers had unlimited respawns. This represented a ceaseless onslaught and a battle of attrition
*When hit Attackers simply fell back 200 yards or so and moved through a respawn building and rejoined the battle
*Defenders had zero respawns and when hit moved to a "dead box"
*The Defending team was permitted 1 counter attack during the 60 minutes representing "re enforcements" entering the battle. This counter attack consisted of all players in the dead box and was initiated upo orders from the commander or co-commander
* at the end of the 60 minutes the team in control of the "compound" received 1 point
This was the foundation for the event
Throughout the entire event we had 3 missions/objectives on the field. Commanders were handed orders on paper and had to decide how many men he could spare to achieve these objectives. Each completed objective was worth 1 point.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 21, 2010 20:18:49 GMT -5
Gerry,
That's a great way to simulate the need for the attacking force to have numerical superiority in order to enjoy any success. Allowing a single counter attack by the defenders is an awesome way to keep the defenders engaged throughout the tactical phase. Typically we have required respawns to occure only when a set number of players accumulates at the casualty collection point to maintain some semblance of unit cohesion and reduce the "lone wolf" approach that is typical at most airsoft events and not very authentic.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 21, 2010 20:32:25 GMT -5
Sometimes at events. (Especially at a large venue or when there is a limited number of participants) there is difficulty insuring that both forces will run into each other in a satisfactorily "random" manner.
No one likes to feel overly controlled or to feel like the scenario is overly contrived. The challenge is it's real hard to manage two opposing forces so they are likely to make contact. This is especially tough unless the area is very small, has easily recognizable terrain features (hills, road junctions, streams or most of the players know the terrain extremely well and can be where they need to be when they need to be there.
One way for game sponsors to maintain some semblance of control even in a large unfamiliar area is to lay "Wire" in the field of play. Typically I use twine as it's cheap and biodegradable. Your scenario can suggest that one team locate the enemy wire (crossing their line of direction so it can't be missed) and then are odered to follow it in a given direction. They don't know if it will lead to an attack objective, an ambush, a meeting engagement or if they themselves are being followed. The "wire" doesn't need to be linear in it's layout and can be laid in a pronounced zig- zag pattern so if it's a meeting engagement it could end up being from virtually any direction. Essentially the wire (or wires) become a conduit and channel to facilitate friction in a non predictable but controlled manner.
I've used this to good effect in games and highly recommend it. Patrols coming across enemy wire would often be ordered to follow it and likewise enemy soldiers were often ordered to trace a wire to find a break. (This would facilitate a realistic meeting engagement) If you knew the enemy was actively patrolling behind your lines you might lay fake wire to lead them into to your preset ambushes. Since wire inevitably lead to key enemy positions (Head quarters or fire control centers) A patrol would typically want to follow the wire even though doing so was obviously quite hairy.
The game controllers can utilize forces on hand to determine what the planned engagement would be but none of the players on either team would know until things developed.
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HornetWSO
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Post by HornetWSO on Nov 21, 2010 23:51:22 GMT -5
I like the idea 2nd Bat had for following wire, seems like an easy way to channel patrols to decision points. Additionally, you could send teams out to repair cuts in their own wire. This could be used to get defenders to stumble into the enemy, who were ordered to follow the wire in the first place.
At the Breacort event that Piper hosted, we had to blow up the guns. Raids could be a good mission, and could be easily varied. Perhaps have a feature that the defenders are not ordered to specifically defend, but are within their AO. Examples could be Radar site, radio tower, guns, bridges, ect. Attackers could plan diversion attacks that allow the raiders to accomplish their missions. Just a few thoughts.
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Gerry
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Post by Gerry on Nov 23, 2010 1:07:14 GMT -5
For our "Day of Days" event I plan on having plenty of "staged" engagements. Some will be to ambush some will be to evade. These are some good thoughts to help this along!
Do you guys have any other thought on making this happen? Would love to hear 'em!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 23, 2010 2:17:06 GMT -5
Typically the most effective way to make an ambush realistic is to insure it occures where least expected. Often after a successful mission an offensive raiding team can be very successfully surprised as they return to their lines and it seems to be especially effective when they are quite close to thier release point and getting relaxed.
Maps are a huge asset for events and having an embedded plant for assorted missions can add a planned immersive effect. At RECONDO we had a couple plants in each patrol who acted out certain things to enhance the experience of the patrols. One fellow following a break contact when they got back to their assembly point commented that he had been hit and when they went to check on his he started bleeding quite profusely at the neck. (A planted moulage wound kit used to great effect)
We have also had patrols go out for a BDA patrol. (Bomb damage assesment) Civilains staing that H&I fire caused enemy casualties worth checking out. The patrol then comes upon the residue of an obvious engagement (artillery strike with dummies simulating bodies) There were drag marks and obvious blood trails which the patrol was ordered to follow.
The experience was quite intense for the players and frankly quite authentic. The trail could lead to any of a number of things even as simple as a wounded high ranking enemy officer with intell that needs to be captured and returned to friendly lines. An objective worth attacking later or an ambush or meeting engagement. Whateever you want or have forces to facilitate. Like the twine it insures a route of movement and accomodates gameplay and control.
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Gerry
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Post by Gerry on Nov 23, 2010 11:01:03 GMT -5
Typically the most effective way to make an ambush realistic is to insure it occures where least expected. Often after a successful mission an offensive raiding team can be very successfully surprised as they return to their lines and it seems to be especially effective when they are quite close to thier release point and getting relaxed. Maps are a huge asset for events and having an embedded plant for assorted missions can add a planned immersive effect. At RECONDO we had a couple plants in each patrol who acted out certain things to enhance the experience of the patrols. One fellow following a break contact when they got back to their assembly point commented that he had been hit and when they went to check on his he started bleeding quite profusely at the neck. (A planted moulage wound kit used to great effect) We have also had patrols go out for a BDA patrol. (Bomb damage assesment) Civilains staing that H&I fire caused enemy casualties worth checking out. The patrol then comes upon the residue of an obvious engagement (artillery strike with dummies simulating bodies) There were drag marks and obvious blood trails which the patrol was ordered to follow. The experience was quite intense for the players and frankly quite authentic. The trail could lead to any of a number of things even as simple as a wounded high ranking enemy officer with intell that needs to be captured and returned to friendly lines. An objective worth attacking later or an ambush or meeting engagement. Whateever you want or have forces to facilitate. Like the twine it insures a route of movement and accomodates gameplay and control. Brilliant ideas! Please keep the coming! I remember at Liberty canyon II after having a successful raid on the VC camp strolling back, settled down in complete darkness and being ambushed just a couple of hundred yards from the firebase! These are some of the things I am trying to accomplish going into 2011 Imersion and structured game play all for theenjoyment of the players that attend. It would be great if I could build a team of guys with the same goals to work with, geared towards a better airsoft experience! When you guys run your Nam events, how any guys would you say are there to "Work" the event?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 23, 2010 16:38:43 GMT -5
For a normal 60 + player event you need at least a dozen staff folks for set up, take down and support and all unit commanders are rolled into the concept of the flow.
RECONDO is very staff intense and had nearly a staff, role player or cadre member for each student. It is however not at all apparent to the students who's staff and who isn't in all cases othger than the instructors and patrol lane observers.
For Jump to Destiny (100+ participants) we had roughly a dozen official staff members when you include vehicle drivers, cooks, jump masters, and officer cadre for both forces. Once again all unit leaders from platoon level up were rolled into planning and game flow execution so essentially on many levels theye were staff as well.
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Post by Rapture on Nov 23, 2010 16:56:00 GMT -5
From what Ive seen from ops such as climb to glory and all four pine plains, a good way to script the game is simply tell both teams commanders to send squads or platoons to certain areas at certain times. The event organizers need to work closely with team commanders and platoon commanders (depending on the size of the event) to make sure both teams are where they are supposed to be. As 2nd bat said staff is crucial to making the more scripted events run smoothly. For WW2 events the staff could be dressed up as civilians walking around making sure everything is going as planned. Just a few ideas.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Nov 23, 2010 19:12:12 GMT -5
Sometimes sending opposing forces after the same objective works but something that works equally as well is differing objective that might jsut happen to cross paths. A little chaos and confusion really adds to an event I think.
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Post by FlyingSquirrelcat on Nov 23, 2010 21:07:08 GMT -5
haha has anyone herd of pain games? ;D ;D
All of these are good ideas. You know what would also be cool is a firebase mission(or attack-and-defend on a grand scale). Designate an objective that preferably would be fortified and provide quality cover such as a grouping of buildings or any other defensive structure to defend for a pre-determined amount of time. Mean while, a significantly larger unit prepares a direct assault on the position. Their objective, take control over the position by eradicating defenders. Sweet and simple base to what can be a very aggressive and interesting game. When breaking up the teams try to stick 1/3Rd of the overall group in the fortified position and 2/3Rd's of the group designate as the assault team. Also not a bad idea to give the def fenders quite a few medics and delayed respawn to allow the assult team a small chance to actually succeed. But Make sure to really give the deffenders good cover so they dont get raped early on or something like that.
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Post by 10target on Nov 24, 2010 21:25:34 GMT -5
Our group's main objective is to smuggle as much munitions to the other fort without getting caught. We travel through an old rail road track in the woods to make our way to the fort. If any of us get captured in the process we have to hide our concealed weapons and munitions, before the opposing force sees them. If they don't see anything then the smugglers are let lose, and allowed to continue their journey, BUT, if they are caught with either the munitions or concealed weapons they are shot on the spot. The winner is the side who has more munitions, unless the opposing force was able to eliminate all the smugglers. No respawn and no time limit. Another scenario is D-Day CTF. In this scenario, the Germans are defending the high ground on the hill, whilst tying to keep their flag secure from the Allies. The allies main objective in this case is to find a safe way to get the flag without casualties, (this game is hard to play when the allies are short of men,) after obtaining the flag they must race back to the bottom of the hill and secure it into their base, hence claiming the almighty VICTORY. Respawn for the Allies, but none for the Germans, and their is a set time limit.
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Post by FlyingSquirrelcat on Nov 25, 2010 16:28:50 GMT -5
sounds like fun
I love charleynovember so much
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Post by 10target on Nov 25, 2010 18:23:27 GMT -5
Anybody here actually have a beach to play on. That would be so cool as a Pacific Theater scenario.
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petermartin14
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Post by petermartin14 on Nov 25, 2010 23:04:43 GMT -5
Our group's main objective is to smuggle as much munitions to the other fort without getting caught. We travel through an old rail road track in the woods to make our way to the fort. If any of us get captured in the process we have to hide our concealed weapons and munitions, before the opposing force sees them. If they don't see anything then the smugglers are let lose, and allowed to continue their journey, BUT, if they are caught with either the munitions or concealed weapons they are shot on the spot. The winner is the side who has more munitions, unless the opposing force was able to eliminate all the smugglers. No respawn and no time limit. Another scenario is D-Day CTF. In this scenario, the Germans are defending the high ground on the hill, whilst tying to keep their flag secure from the Allies. The allies main objective in this case is to find a safe way to get the flag without casualties, (this game is hard to play when the allies are short of men,) after obtaining the flag they must race back to the bottom of the hill and secure it into their base, hence claiming the almighty VICTORY. Respawn for the Allies, but none for the Germans, and their is a set time limit. hahaha sounds adventurous
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Post by 10target on Nov 26, 2010 2:32:42 GMT -5
Oh man, if only all of you guys could be there when we play. It's amazing traveling through the old rail road tracks and shooting at the enemy at the same time. It's so epic!!! Also it's funny to see when some of the guys get captured; they are shot with crummy springers on the spot haha, it's so hilarious!!!
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Post by volkssturm on Dec 1, 2010 23:15:20 GMT -5
I was toying with this idea today: armor attack against an anti-tank gun screen.
One side has a dummy AT gun and a squad of protecting infantry with bazookas/panzerfausts. A rocket launcer or grenade launcher stands in for the gun.
Attacking side has 1 - 3 4x4 's fitted as "tanks", each with a squad of infantry. The Tanks have a main gun (grenade launcer or other rocket launcher) and an MG. The tank crew is invulnerable to small arms fire.
The defending infantry try to engage and defeat the tanks' defenders and take out the tanks if possible. The attacking infantry need to locate the AT gun and protect the tanks from the defenders' AT weapons.
There's some serious safety considerations involved. The tanks would have to be limited in how fast they can move, and probably each would need a spotter to make sure they didn't run anyone over.
To make it more realistic, each tank should have a commander who tells the driver where to go.
It might be a bit resource heavy to pull off, since at a minimum you'd need a rocket or grenade launcher for each tank and the AT gun, plus at least one for the defending Infantry. The defenders could also carry sticky grenades, a la "Saving Private Ryan", to prove who's really suicidal.
Findign a suitable field might be a problem, since it would have to be open and level enough for the 4x4's to operate but still have enough cover for the grunts to hide. Simulated minefields could also be incorporated.
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Post by 10target on Dec 2, 2010 1:32:16 GMT -5
Haha nicely done, love it. OH NO JOHNNY GOT RAN OVER!!!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2010 19:08:04 GMT -5
At Jump to Destiny the US forces on Saturday were going through tactical training, jump procedures and mission rehearsal for the Night Drop Early sunday morning and daylight assembly and company mission. Throughoout Saturday the German elements were preparing their positions, likewise doing traininng and conducting anti partisan activities. Throughout Saturday Partisians were locating caches that had been dropped to them, scouting German positions and generally trying to avoid being caught by the SS Forces. During the Nighjt drop the Partisans served as liasons and guides for the pathfinders and Airborne troops and helped the game controllers know what was going on, on the ground. They also provided supplemental rations and intel for both sides at critical times during the event.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 18, 2010 11:54:19 GMT -5
A simple scenario but one that promotes active patrolling and the randomness of chance encounters. Have some preset locations established throughout your field of play with readily identifiable objects. A small shed, a howitzer, a truck of some kind, a stack of boxes covered by a camo net, some steel drums etc. Things that can be physically spotted from a reasonable distance away. The more military looking the better. Task both teams with the objective to recon the locations and report what they see.
In the course of moving from location to location the opposing patrols will no doubt run into one another.
An alternative to this approach and one that accomodates a situation where one team is considerably larger than the other is to have one team searching to identify the locations while the other is searching for the recon elements. The larger team can be tasked with setting up the locations and perhaps moving objects from one to the other during this phase so it's not an all out "hunting" expedition.
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Post by volkssturm on Dec 18, 2010 14:38:50 GMT -5
I've got a friend who reenacts Marine Recon from Vietnam. He did a scenario a couple years ago where we had three PAVN teams, one moving ammo boxes, two patrolling and his recon team had to infiltrate, locate the ammo boxes and call in artillery. Had a great location, an island in a small stream, maybe 4-5 acres but pretty dense and jungle like. Biggest problem was that some of the airsofters recruited to play PAVN troops expected a lot of trigger time and got bored and irritable.
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