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Post by Jager.Drü on Feb 25, 2007 21:41:30 GMT -5
USMC, used Army gear for the early in the PTO.
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Post by themango on Feb 25, 2007 21:43:38 GMT -5
Yes the Jungle pack was an army item...but tons of army items found their way into USMC hands
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Post by wade on Feb 25, 2007 21:44:11 GMT -5
Hey wade, where's your source? You got a better one smart guy? Let's see it.
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Russian
Corporal
Magician
Posts: 923
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Post by Russian on Feb 25, 2007 21:44:14 GMT -5
Actually, the earlier Marine forces were issued large quantities of Army gear. The USMC only gear was issued later in the war. Likewise, the whole "BAR bandoleer was a WWI only item" is B.S. We all know that items were issued from the previous war. It just was. We were coming out of a depression, and we were issuing what we had. I guarentee no Quarter Master didn't issue a piece of gear because it didn't look cool enough, or fit into his image of what a GI should look like. If it worked, it was issued.
Also, this is my pet peeve, and I finally have a means to vent on it. Gents, when you enter a new community, do it SUBTELY. Don't bash the door in and scream about how you know everything. Even if you do, no one will listen, they'll just write you off as an ass, and you'll never get the respect you crave.
My 2 pesos.
Russian
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Post by mauser98k on Feb 25, 2007 21:45:23 GMT -5
Give me a few minutes, I'm taking out my ww2 photograph books. And if that book you state has no photographic proof that it wasn't used by the USMC, then I wouldn't rely on it.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Feb 25, 2007 21:45:55 GMT -5
Pesos ain't worth nothing, you gave 2 Euros on that second part.
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Post by themango on Feb 25, 2007 21:46:33 GMT -5
Russian don't sell yourself short...that was worth more than 2 pesos...>_^
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Post by themango on Feb 25, 2007 21:47:13 GMT -5
dang it Drew we keep posting the same thing at the same time basically...oy
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Post by Jager.Drü on Feb 25, 2007 21:51:16 GMT -5
And we have the same birthday,
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Russian
Corporal
Magician
Posts: 923
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Post by Russian on Feb 25, 2007 21:51:30 GMT -5
Haha, danke, guys...yea..been wanting to say that for sometime now....but, seriously, just be a little less...oblivious...
Russian
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Post by Tough Ombre on Feb 25, 2007 23:04:20 GMT -5
when is this guy going to get banned, because obviously he has no part in here. He has no clue what he is talking about. I mean if anybody should be getting flamed for an impression it should be my applesauce ty ones... not Troys. His are Top-Notch. This guy is obviously jealous of what others have so he has to make this BS up to make himself feel better. I see no need to keep arguing with him. I cant even guess an age, because there are a lot of young kids on this board that know 10 times the amount of applesauce he does. I again echo the words of russian... -Cary
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Post by Tough Ombre on Feb 25, 2007 23:05:01 GMT -5
By the way.. kosb.. you are in my guns sights too... and that isnt a plesant place to sit.....
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Post by mauser98k on Feb 25, 2007 23:14:59 GMT -5
I say we get this all cleaned up and deleted, we've all said what we wanted to say.
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Post by Tough Ombre on Feb 25, 2007 23:22:45 GMT -5
i say let it stay, then anyone else who is new and with this attitude can see that only bad will come from it. -Cary
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Post by mauser98k on Feb 25, 2007 23:25:30 GMT -5
Letting this stay, would just make us out to be ruthless immature nutjobs who think they are the best. These fights aren't fun for anyone, especially newcomers.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Feb 25, 2007 23:28:51 GMT -5
I'd say clean it up. But when newcommers come in here trying to get in our faces when they don't have a impression, let it be known that they will be called Dickwrenches.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 25, 2007 23:29:41 GMT -5
It is a great lesson in tact and the importance of courteous and responsible input. My guess is Kosb is actually reasonably knowledgeable and fairly well informed. Wrong on somethings no doubt (aren't we all?) Unfortunately he doesn't know how to make his points no need to call him a dick weed or ass (He's managing that quite nicely on his own)
Russian is right, when you're new to a site it's a good idea to contribute in a constructive not abrasive way. Your points (if valid) would have a more receptive audience. Perhaps over time you'd be seen as the authority you seem confident you are.
Probably not. but who knows....maybe. Odds are you won't earn the right. This site is about learning all we can about the proper history, gear and equipment of the time but it's also a community that values courtesy and respect. You haven't shown either.
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Post by Jager.Drü on Feb 25, 2007 23:39:18 GMT -5
All the things he said, people already knew thanks to TommyGunner and other USMC guys. When someone kicks down the door and points out only bad stuff on a persons impression when they have NOTHING to show themsleves. Why should anyone respect that, be a man(not you 2ndbat) and post up some of your own impressions, so you can be shown how one gives tips in a good and postive way. People who come in all knowing don't respect us and therefor are a dickwrench.
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click
Sergeant
Company G, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division
Posts: 1,764
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Post by click on Feb 26, 2007 5:46:43 GMT -5
Let me help everybody understand what Jager.Dru is saying:
All newbies who come on here, acting like they know everyhing, flameing everyone else, and acting like no body elses' research matters, on top of which they can't show an impression of there own, will hencefroth be in EVERYONES gun sites.
Click
----edit----
Sorry mods of this sounds too rough or stuck up but that is the way I, and most likely everyone else feels.
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Nimlas
Master sergeant
grumpy
Posts: 1,594
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Post by Nimlas on Feb 26, 2007 7:46:50 GMT -5
I thought Gordak said, not two weeks ago "Don't criticize people unless you have pictures of your OWN kit"?
To be honest I don't think we need to band shishkabob or whatever his name is, because he's done a good job of 'banning himself'. So I'll leave this thread just as it is as a monument to noob stupidity.
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Post by 5thrangerinfantry on Feb 26, 2007 9:39:50 GMT -5
btw if you don't believe, go to the library and get "The US GI in US Army Uniforms 1941-1945 in Color Photographs" byRichard Windrow and Tim Hawkins. Books are better than the internet. What bugs me the most is that he was proven wrong with a book by 2 different people and he conveniently ignores that fact....yet he still clings to the idea that he might be right about something.....
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TommyGunner
Staff Sgt.
Hackjob Mauro
1st Marine Division, 1942
Posts: 2,265
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Post by TommyGunner on Feb 26, 2007 10:00:16 GMT -5
Wow for some reason I just saw everything that happened in this thread today, but I am not too surprised at the Farb critisisms directed towrds Troy (I too have been hamered by reenactors too), his impressions are 100% battle field accurate and by far some of the most amazing USMC impressiosn I have seen to date. But the USMC accoriding to all cookie cutter reenactors broke all the rules in terms of issued gear and use of that gear.
There are many reenactors that say if it isnt regulation issued or I havent seen it used in this way it is wrong and should not be used at all and that mentality simply does not work for the USMC, it is interesting to note also that once you have all your gear for a USMC impression you can wear it any way you want becuase thats how the reall soldier did it and by god we can too!
WW1 weapons, WW2 weapons, WW1 Gear, WW2 Gear, USMC marked and Army marked both dated WW1-WW2, everthing that could be used in Pacific battle conditions was used by the USMC at one point or another and this is what bugs the crap out of most reenactors becuase there really was no uniformity to what was issued used and how it was used (this statment mainly refers to the years 41-mid 43) USMC gear started showing up in large issuable quantities after mid 43.
Debate ended, soldiers did not look perfect in war as people want to belive be it USMC Army or even Airforce!
TommyGunner
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click
Sergeant
Company G, 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines, 1st Marine Division
Posts: 1,764
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Post by click on Feb 26, 2007 10:51:23 GMT -5
Enough Said!! Thankyou tommygunner!
Click
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Post by troyluginbill on Feb 27, 2007 3:29:33 GMT -5
Thanks guys for the input. I was out of town this weekend and frankly surprised to see that I started such a storm. For KOSB. "Yeah......troyluginbill, his kits aren't that great the marines didn't get issued the M-5 rubberized assault gas bask mags. Yeah and his early war kit, I don't think they had the late war gas mask bags in 1941 or 1942. Marine corps raiders didn't have M-1A1 Thompsons they weren't designed yet. The USMC didn't get Jungle Packs or Shotgun shell holders for their shotguns. They also didn't use BAR bandoliers, thats a WWI item only. Maybe he should do some research before he puts a kit together." Where should I start. 1. I am using Marine corps research NOT army books. The book you cited is a good one. BUT please see Frogskins and Dungarees, Sailors in Forest Green, Grunt Gear, From Doughboy to GI, and on the internet please google Chinamarines. Also go to www.harlans-heroes.com (used to be tarawatookinawa.com). Please also review Veterans of Foreign Wars Pictorial History of WW2-The Pacific Theatre and The War in the Pacific. In regards to the thompson issue please review US infantry weapons of WW2. Finally any and all of the Osprey men at arms series on Pacific Theatre command. In doing so you will find certain things... 2. Rubberized gas mask bags (assault model M5 gas mask) were issued to the Navy in 1944. They were army contract only. The USMC grabbed then when ever they could. The USN was more than happy to allow this because they were still producing and procuring the USN gas mask Why did the USMC like them? Because they kept stuff dry. They were standard issue to USN corpsmen. 3. I am not sure what you mean by early war kit, If you are talking the wake island shot then the gas mask bag is indeed an M4 gas mask bag with an M3 in it. This is a mistake I made as I was pressed for time grabbing gear and intended to grab the M1-1920 but did not and did not realize it. You will also note that I have a second pattern canteen cover, t7 mine belt and jungle pouch with the M1 garand and early haversack. This picture is mislabelled as mid war, the jungle pouch and mine belt were late 44 early 45. And this marine would be hopelessly out of style with the early haversack, but not unheard of (thank you to twombly for pointing that out-I must also give him kudos as his USMC unit in Czechoslovakia is really great so check out their website). I can only plead a rush job with the pics and this is the reason I posted onto the working on it instead of the stitch knot-see. This summer I will have more time to insure authenticity to the extreme as I will include the pack fillers I have gotten as well. 4. Never said the M1a1 thompson kit was a marine corps raider kit. I labeled it a mid war patrol kit intended to reflect 1943. Raiders have unfortunately taken on the same same mystique that the rangers and airborne have for the ETO. Every marine that walked into a jungle to fight without immediate support is suddenly a raider. Raiders were specific units that were volunteer units working very much the same way that special forces units work today-behind the lines, they were not recon. Recon units were specific companies and did not do raider raids-they did recon. Raiders did not go on patrol, that would have been a waste of their efforts. The M1a1 was readily available to and used by the USMC by June 1943. It was invented and tested in late 1941, adopted in oct 1942. You are right that any self respecting raider would not use an M1a1 if it could be helped because the drum magazine could not be used in the M1a1. Raider doctrine was to hit the landing point with a 50 round locked and loaded. Once empty this was dumped and stick mags were used from then on out. But then again I never said I was a raider did I? Just a plain ol jarhead is all I reenact. 4. The jungle pack, shotgun shell holder and BAR bandolier. They had 'em. They weren't common, but they were used. Recommendation by Joint chiefs to USMC was to replace the 782 system with the jungle pack in 1945. This did not happen, the USMC would be damned if they were going to use army gear again. 5. I designed these impressions to represent a wide variety of gear to illustrate that the USMC had alot of stuff to draw on, remember they took from every branch they could and then got their own stuff too. That is what is so cool about the USMC. Their rigger made items were really cool-I hope to make some of them this summer to add to my collection, and you better believe that I will model those things as well. KOSB I appreciate your comments and criticism, but I do not appreciate your tone. I am not sure what WW2 reenacting, impressions and airsoft means to you but to me it means working with others constructively to recreate an important experience that our country went through. There were enough negative things that go on about the war, or any war for that matter. But when I can go to the local gun show and have an old USMC vet walk up to me and begin telling me stories about the kit I am wearing then I know I have done what I wanted to do. When I can get out on the airsoft field and swap stories with the guys and have fun, then I know I have done something right. When I can get on this forum and share my hard work and appreciate others or inspire others, then I know I have done something good. I am sorry that you can't seem to understand that. Life will be a lot rougher for you because of it, so good luck. You will need it.
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Post by troyluginbill on Feb 27, 2007 3:38:25 GMT -5
wade, Your question about the 2 pistol belts got lost in the hubub. The top belt is a shotgun shell belt. Basically an model 1910 pistol belt with shotgun shell loops on it. These were used by the shotgun totin guys because they wanted to carry all the ammo they could in an easy to get to place. The belts were pulled out of old ww1 and even spanish-american war stores. These were actually quite common, but worn as a bandoleer instead of a second belt. I find it easier to wear as a belt. This was also confirmed by a Seabee named Walt DeKraai. He was on Okinawa in 45 and the guard protecting his unit as they worked had quite a few shotguns (they also served as MPs when not guarding seabees.)
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Post by Tough Ombre on Feb 28, 2007 11:52:49 GMT -5
wade, Your question about the 2 pistol belts got lost in the hubub. The top belt is a shotgun shell belt. Basically an model 1910 pistol belt with shotgun shell loops on it. These were used by the shotgun totin guys because they wanted to carry all the ammo they could in an easy to get to place. The belts were pulled out of old ww1 and even spanish-american war stores. These were actually quite common, but worn as a bandoleer instead of a second belt. I find it easier to wear as a belt. This was also confirmed by a Seabee named Walt DeKraai. He was on Okinawa in 45 and the guard protecting his unit as they worked had quite a few shotguns (they also served as MPs when not guarding seabees.) Thats cool, i have to find vets in my area i could talk to. I plan on going down to the VA hospital, its quite a trip from me so i have to find a ride. -Cary
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guitarmaster
Corporal
And at this range, I'm a real Frederick Zoller
Posts: 954
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Post by guitarmaster on Feb 28, 2007 17:59:32 GMT -5
Kosb obviously you haven't been here long or shown us any of your impresssions so unless you show us your impressions and let us know what your talking about i wouldn't bother with Mauser Nimlas or any one , kapeesh.
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Russian
Corporal
Magician
Posts: 923
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Post by Russian on Feb 28, 2007 18:36:58 GMT -5
The topic is over and done with, guys. Let it rest. Please, just continue commenting on peoples impressions.
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29ththerealpimps
Private 1st Class
3rd Armored Division 32nd Armored Regiment 83rd Recon Battalion
Posts: 706
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Post by 29ththerealpimps on Feb 28, 2007 18:42:46 GMT -5
BTW russian, Im digging your new improved 45th impression. I think the m41 looks alot better. Also is that an original cartridge belt.
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Russian
Corporal
Magician
Posts: 923
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Post by Russian on Feb 28, 2007 19:00:00 GMT -5
Cartidge belt was dated 1946. Actually, one of the first pieces of gear I'd ever seen with a 46. My older one was transitional, dated 45, but four of the eyelets blew out, so I switched to a OD#7 one. Thanks for the compliments!
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