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Post by mastermike95 on Aug 25, 2010 0:31:09 GMT -5
Does any1 know any upgrades for the cyma m14? cuz i m thinking of doing the garand conversion, but before buying the rifle and all the m1 garand parts i need to know if its possibl if can get the rifle to shoot with good range and accuracy like 500 fps with .2g bbs. Cuz i really dont see the point of having a rifle that shoots the same power and that is heavier to carry than the Thompson. Just cant decide, cyma m14 or just buy a thompson so i dont have to worry about any converting.
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Post by jimmiroquai on Aug 25, 2010 18:30:31 GMT -5
The cyma M14 gearbox is a little more fragile than a Ver3 or 2. So i suggest putting in a PDI190 or SP130 spring max. Below is a list of upgrades for the Cyma M14. You do not need any more than the list below.
1) PDI190 or SP130 spring MAX 2) Guarder Air seal nozzle for M14 3) Ver.3 / Ver.7 metal spring guide with bearings 4) Re-shimming 5) Seal all leaks
Optional: Mosfet with active breaking
Keep the rest stock.
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petermartin14
Private 1st Class
RIP Arne Andersson- Sweden's Finest
Posts: 639
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Post by petermartin14 on Aug 25, 2010 19:08:21 GMT -5
you may want to reconsider fps considering the limit at the field i go to is 400. lots of fields are more strict than that. it dosnt have to be 500 fps for someone to feel it lol.
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kalbs
Master sergeant
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Post by kalbs on Aug 25, 2010 20:50:44 GMT -5
500 is way too powerful. Follow Jimmi's suggesting and he is correct about the flimsy gearbox, it can take a heavy spring load for too long
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Post by mastermike95 on Aug 25, 2010 21:39:09 GMT -5
Yeh 500 is powerful but the place i airsoft at which is Jericho Lake Elsinore in california there limit on semi automatic rifles (automatic function must be removed) 550 fps with range of 100 feet. Idk i mite just stick with thompson. Maybe i mite make a garand when i get more money unless u guys have any solutions.
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Post by mattroxsu on Sept 4, 2010 12:53:04 GMT -5
how much money are you willing to spend on the conversion?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 4, 2010 13:20:12 GMT -5
The CYMA M14 is the only Chinese clone M14 that is fully compatible with all the normal Marui upgrades. The others (AGM, KART UTG etc.) can only accept some of them. The CYMA also has a very nice inner barrel and provides 365 FPS right out of the box. This will give you neraly identical range to the same rifle upgraded to 500 FPS (15 feet difference) and far greater durability and reliability. Also by complying with the lower FPS you won't have the 100 feet minimum range restriction which is a real impediment to your operational effectiveness.
You'll also be a much safer participant. Upgrades on that magnitude for an AEG are a stupid stupid idea in my opinion and only result in bad things. To each his own of course but that is my .2.
Of course in my opinion sub machine guns should be required at events to function without hop up to simulate their reduced accuracy and range relative to rifles. That's because like you I like Garands and think they should have an upside to offset their longer length and semi auto fire.
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Post by mattroxsu on Sept 6, 2010 12:08:17 GMT -5
He is right upgrades end up bad especially the thompson upgrades were bad for me and my thopson no longer works. If you get the m14 dont screw with it just leave iy how it is untill you convert it.
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Post by jimmiroquai on Sept 6, 2010 16:57:04 GMT -5
Well, it depends on what you want out of your rifle, the skill of the person upgrading on your rifle, and what your gamesite will allow. While fps isn't always the way to greater range, it definitely helps. As 2ndbat has mentioned, the cyma already comes with a tightbore so after a little sealing and maybe installing an SCS hop nub, then you've maxed out the range upgrades for the stock gun. You will need to add power if you want your maximum effective range (meaning the range at which you hit what you aim for) to improve. The upgrades i mentioned above are within the tolerances of the M14 gearbox and will give you an fps output of about 450-480. I've worked on several m14s and they all work flawlessly with the upgrades. But again, check with your gamesite first.
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Post by mattroxsu on Sept 6, 2010 20:08:09 GMT -5
yeah i probibly should have said sompthing about skill but i wouldnt try to upgrade it untill you have had it for a long time. my thompson i had for 2 in a half years and it broke because of a simple bolt mod. my m14s hopup was screwed up after a few tweaks of trying to upgrade it to a new hopup.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 6, 2010 20:38:09 GMT -5
The end result of substantial upgrades especially those that effect FPS is marginally improved range and accuracy and if you adhere to the field rules about minimal engagement ranges with upgraded guns end up with a very small window of effectiveness. (about a 40 foot window) Add to this the fact that most players have no clue how to estimate range and are hence usually in violation of their field rules and putting opponents and team mates (to say nothing about the hobby in general) at risk.
Upgrades to the maginitude being dicussed in an AEG are just dumb dumb dumb. If you're fortunate enough to have someone skilled enough to do it well (And they are few and far between) you'll end up with a gun that will probably either make you dangerous to your fellow players or less effective as a team member because your window of deployment will be too inflexible to allow you to engage the enemy consistently.
My advice is keep your FPS around 387 or below. The statistics bear me out on this in terms of optimizing effectiveness and safety. Guys who obsess over FPS typically either have skill issues or testonerone problems.
Incidently most people are surprised to learn that an actual Thompson with a full magazine weighed quite bit more than an M1 Garand. 9 1/2 pounds vs 11 1/2 pounds. The Thompson was an awkward and heavy weapon to carry and especially to shoot. It hopped around like a Puerto Rican Shortstop when you fired it and climbed all over you like a horny Boston terrier.
Where a Garand would penetrate an 11 inch tree at 200 meters and go though the man on the otherside a Thompson would bounce off a helmet at 75 meters and barely stick into the tree (if you hit it) The performance characteristics of those two weapons was significant. The Thompson was viscious inside of 50 meters but pretty much a nuisance beyond that range.
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Post by jimmiroquai on Sept 7, 2010 3:18:26 GMT -5
While i agree with 2ndbat that it's not all about FPS, FPS plays a big factor with regards to range, especially in a rifle with a long barrel. It shouldn't be about getting the max FPS out of your rifle, but the max range and accuracy. To achieve that, you'll need to find the correct balance between FPS, bb weight, accuracy and consistency mods. It's about maximum effective range, not just maximum range. The problem with a weak rifle that has range, is that the person you are shooting can actually see your ammunition flying towards them and can easily dodge them matrix style. Or worse, won't feel the hit. Ofcourse safety is a huge an important concern, and rightly so. If you play in a site that allows FPS as high as the TS stated (500fps) then the site management has to increase mandatory safety requirements as well. Full face masks, minimum engagement distance, limited burst/semi within a certain range, etc. Also, I have nothing but respect for 2ndbat but I'd say "dumb", "skill issues", "testosterone issues" are strong words. While i agree FPS junkies are a little stupid. Anyway, this is getting a little OT. I play in a field-type site with a 470 fps max for AEGs and 500fps max for BASRs. Safety rules are strict and mandatory. I've played using 300 fps stock guns, 450fps AEGs, and my 500fps kar98/mosin/smle rifles. I know that the FPS issue is a touchy subject and people tend to be rough around the edges about it. But i've been playing airsoft almost 20 years with these fps limits and safety is, ofcourse, top priority. I guess Bottom line is, if the site you play in allows that kind of FPS, just make sure that additional protection and safety measures are in place for EVERYONE who plays there. Safety is a personal responsibility as well as a site admin responsibility. IF you play in a high fps limit gamesite, make sure you AND the person you are shooting have adequate protection. And back to topic - the upgrades i mentioned above will give you a max output of around 470 fps only. IF you want to go higher, you'll need a G&P Reinforced ver.7 gearbox which costs even more than the Cyma M14.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 7, 2010 13:26:42 GMT -5
Extremely well put Jimmirouqui and I think you and I agree on far more than it appears we disagree on. My choice of words was overly harsh and I stand corrected. My thoughts are that you fall in the extremely small % of airsofters who actually get it when it comes to FPS. What it really means, what it requires and what it's limitations are. The vast majority have no clue and I guess that is what I was trying to drive home.
This is a community (WW2 airsoft) that almost universally abhors full face masks or even sealed goggles and if you're talking high FPS in my opinion those things have to be absolutes. Just my opinion of course but one that is based on first hand experiences over the last decade plus playing airsoft
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Post by jimmiroquai on Sept 7, 2010 17:51:05 GMT -5
Oh, believe me, i'd love to play at a low fps site and wear only shooting glasses. But over here, WW2 airsoft is in it's infancy and we have to compete with the modern guys and high fps. Hence we too have to wear full face masks and full seal goggles, and shooting glasses aren't allowed at all. Cheers!
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Post by mattroxsu on Sept 20, 2010 20:04:26 GMT -5
Sorry guys for interupting but i do realise how stupid i sound it accually makes me laugh. "my thompson i had" haha its just plain stupid. on this thread i was just giving tips. I should just not comment for now on so you guys dont get mad again because oviously everything i say is stupid. Sorry for everything.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 22, 2010 0:37:16 GMT -5
Abe Lincoln once said "I'd rather keep my mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
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Post by cole97 on Nov 28, 2010 20:29:17 GMT -5
a 6.01mm barrel off of ASGI does wonders to a rifle. ive had one before, and am considering on getting one for my m14/m1. it increases FPS and accuracy too. disregard what they say about 6.01 barrels jamming. theyre wonderful, even if it does jam or you get dirt in there, run a .22 rifle bore brush through there and throw some silicon and your good to go again.
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Post by jimmiroquai on Nov 28, 2010 23:25:33 GMT -5
Actually, if your base rifle is a Cyma M14, it already comes with a 6.03 tightbore stock. This internal diameter and barrel length already does wonders for this rifle. Rather than spend on a 6.01 barrel, why not spend on a mosfet with active breaking? This will GREATLY improve your shot-to-shot consistency while on semi auto. A 6.01 will only give a slight improvement (only barely noticable) on the already good, long barrel. Just my 2bbs worth.
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Post by FlyingSquirrelcat on Nov 29, 2010 7:05:27 GMT -5
Guys who obsess over FPS typically either have skill issues or testonerone problems. It hopped around like a Puerto Rican Shortstop when you fired it and climbed all over you like a horny Boston terrier. I almost pissed myself I was laughing so hard. ;D Ha ha but for real the things I want outta my M14 are either Range or ROF(Because It makes me smile when an M14 shoots like a minigun ) In all honesty, I just really want my gun to shoot far. I got a tight bore in there right now, and I think it has an M1200 but I'm not totally sure. So Y'all recommend just to try and seal off all of the leaks in the nozzle? Because at the moment I've got a good deal of range but its not perfect. Id say about 75-100 feet accurate.
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Post by cole97 on Nov 29, 2010 8:45:33 GMT -5
oh i thought it was 6.04 that comes in the CYMA? hmm if you want it to shoot far you can get a spring that will just about torque it up a maximum of 20 more FPS of what you already have so you wont break any parts immediatly. id never replace a spring simply because i want my gun to last, but thats up to you. if you want ROF you can either get a faster motor and 9.6 battery or you could maybey get a weaker spring? im not sure anyone correct me if im wrong
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Post by jimmiroquai on Nov 29, 2010 10:05:45 GMT -5
The cyma comes with a 6.03id. All you need to increase your maximum effective range are listed in my post above. I guarantee excellent performance with these upgrades. Especially with a mosfet with active breaking. If for some reason you want to increase ROF, just replace the crappy motor with a TM EG1000 or better. This will also give you better trigger response.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 29, 2010 12:05:05 GMT -5
The CYMA in my opinion is the cream of the crop when it comes to Chinese built Marui clones. The build quality, materials used are noticeably better than all the others. (I have used them all) Kart, UTG, TSD, and AGM. I have even used the original M14 from airsoft club. (Had three of them)
The tightbore barrel in the Cyma is excellent. As with any quality AEG use good BBs and don't reuse them and you should be fine. The hop up is not as precise as the Marui but it shoots much harder stock right out of the box. Range and accuracy are excellent for an airsoft gun. If you need to hone them to a higher perfromance plane use the tips suggested by Jimmiroquai. My only suggestion is that like all Chinese guns the battery that comes standard isn't much and the wall charger isn't something I generally recommend. They both work of course but a sound investment is a quality charger and better battery. I'd spend the money there and do no upgrades to the rifle which works fine in my opinion.
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Post by FlyingSquirrelcat on Nov 29, 2010 15:56:54 GMT -5
Yea, About a year back I grabbed myself a 9.6v 1600mah and thats all I have done and the gun is terrific. Although, the modern kiddies I showdown with have insane custom guns that spit out 30bps at 370fps. So naturally I wanted something to give me the upper hand. But Lucky for me, those kids are just hobbyist with no skill whatsoever. I went out to my local field in a clown suit and have a scar on my leg from getting shot point blank from a kid who couldn't see me until he stepped on me. Thats why I hate the kids who bag on OG and praise multicam. If you've got the balls to chill even when the Opfor is literally on top of you, chances are they wont pick up on you.
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Post by jimmiroquai on Nov 29, 2010 18:10:37 GMT -5
I agree with 2nd bat on the batteries. I've never used any of the batteries that come packaged with any ACM AEG.
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Post by cole97 on Nov 29, 2010 19:38:47 GMT -5
hmm my CYMA kindof starts to curve in random directions after about 50 to 70 feet. any solutions?? people say the CYMA will go 150 but mine isnt :/ oh, and my garand has a wood stock so i cant fit the battery that comes with it, but i can fit the thompson battery in there (who doesnt have a thompson?), are there any 9.6's out there that are about that size??
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 29, 2010 21:06:05 GMT -5
Yes there are plenty of quality batteries that are small. The actual Garand stock actually has tons of room for a battery if you hollow it our further. Since you somehow managed to hollow out the neck of an actual Garand sufficient for a M14 motor making room for even a huge battery in the stock area should be a piece of cake.
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Post by cole97 on Nov 30, 2010 8:57:30 GMT -5
okay ill try it thanks 2nd bat!
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Post by threader on Dec 21, 2010 0:40:34 GMT -5
I hope you would consider keeping your FPS under 400.
I have run rifles at 460 with the best parts available and they require constant maintenance, maybe you get lucky once in a while but the norm is they need to be worked on a lot.
I would put in a ball bearing spring guide and ball bearing piston, takes the stress off a lot of parts. I would add a double o ring cylinder head for a better seal, a nozzle and a better hop up nub. Add a 115 spring and your done, total price around $120.00.
This should give you 380-390 FPS and the gun should stay together.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Dec 21, 2010 8:18:34 GMT -5
I would just get metal bushings and a new shim job. It shoots fine stock, just use it until it breaks.
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Post by threader on Dec 21, 2010 9:39:58 GMT -5
sgttom I would agree that with a lot of AEG's, shoot them till they die, then fix them.
That being said, the CYMA we are converting to an M1 came out of the box at 330 FPS on my chrono. This may make you competitive on some fields but around here you would be at a serious disadvantage. If the CYMA would have been 360 or better I would have gone with the shoot or die recommendation.
So I would say it depends on where you play and what you want the rifle to do.
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