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Post by heinrich42 on Sept 29, 2010 20:56:00 GMT -5
"Just my observations of your posts on here." Bob's posts are frequently on the negative side here. Anyone that has read his postings on here for a while can tell he is not a happy camper. I honestly wish he were. I'm sorry you took offence at being refered to as his friend Shawn...lol Again you can bitch and moan about "low standards" at "most" events or you can step up and do your own event where you can control who participates. No, I am Bob's friend, I just think that if I am going to be downed, I could at least be called by my name. And I understand where his frustration comes from. -Shawn P.S. Ask and you shall receive. It is time to start the event planning...
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Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 29, 2010 21:01:22 GMT -5
Suggesting that you are not enjoying yourself and that perhaps you could enjoy yourself more if you worried less about other people is not "downing" you. Suggesting that you run your own event where you control the accuracy of impressions therefore making you happier and constructive instead of sad and just complaining is also not "downing" you.
Wanted to add that if I did offend you or Bob in any way I publically apologize for it.
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Post by 10target on Sept 29, 2010 21:07:00 GMT -5
Sorry for the rank post but.....YOU JUST GOT OWNED SHAWNEB HAHAhaha, but NO. Seriously now, if you understand where his frustration comes from...then why? It would have been easier to have just agreed, take it from someone who has been there and done that. It's not fun.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 29, 2010 21:16:14 GMT -5
Alright lets all settle down here no one got owned by anyone we all love WW2 history and airsoft and just have differing opinions it's not a dick measuring contest, and we are to small of a community to be infighting.
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kalbs
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,142
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Post by kalbs on Sept 29, 2010 21:20:35 GMT -5
We could at least try and put some effort into the impressions. I get what Bob is saying, some people just put no effort into it. For God's sake, it has never been so easy and inexpensive to buy decent repro uniforms, airsoft guns and gear. Making negative comments can be good and keeps the cheap bastards and new starters on their toes. This is a WW2 airsoft board, not of a "sort-of-WW2" board where flecktarn is an acceptable substitute for peadot or that Swedish suspenders are close enough.
If you cut corners you should expect negative comments and as a result it is expected you will learn from these comments, good or bad.
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Post by 10target on Sept 29, 2010 21:27:49 GMT -5
Peadot came from flecktarn. Ebstersnum I believe, or something along those lines.
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kalbs
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,142
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Post by kalbs on Sept 29, 2010 21:36:34 GMT -5
Peadot came from flecktarn. Ebstersnum I believe, or something along those lines. Huh? Flecktarn is a post WW2 West German pattern. Peadot was first issued in quantity in 1944and the term is "Erbsenmuster". Regardless, flecktarn is a no-go
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Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 29, 2010 21:40:54 GMT -5
"Making negative comments can be good and keeps the cheap bastards and new starters on their toes. " Again opinions differ I'm ok with that...I think constant negativity can never be a positive force. That's just the way I see it.
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 29, 2010 21:41:55 GMT -5
Peadot came from flecktarn. Ebstersnum I believe, or something along those lines. You got it backwards , Erbsenmuster was the camo pattern used during WWII , then came Punktmuster during the mid '70s , the came Flecktarn A.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 29, 2010 21:44:23 GMT -5
"you should expect negative comments and as a result it is expected you will learn from these comments"
Also what a lot of people learn is they don't want to deal with people that treat them like trash if they haven't spent a fortune on gear. Sometimes these people move on and find people that will support them as they grow and sometimes they just move along and WW2 Airsoft loses people that could be quality players. This is in addition to the people that will never change and will always half ass it. So you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
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kalbs
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,142
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Post by kalbs on Sept 29, 2010 21:53:23 GMT -5
I thought this was a WW2 board and as such looking the part and using WW2 model guns made it so. Otherwise what's the point?
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Post by Fusilier on Sept 29, 2010 21:58:06 GMT -5
We could at least try and put some effort into the impressions. I get what Bob is saying, some people just put no effort into it. For God's sake, it has never been so easy and inexpensive to buy decent repro uniforms, airsoft guns and gear. Making negative comments can be good and keeps the cheap bastards and new starters on their toes. This is a WW2 airsoft board, not of a "sort-of-WW2" board where flecktarn is an acceptable substitute for peadot or that Swedish suspenders are close enough. If you cut corners you should expect negative comments and as a result it is expected you will learn from these comments, good or bad. >> EXACTLY! The RIGHT Stuff is out there! Everywhere! Read books, use Google. Save your money,get the right stuff,THEN come out. Theres no rush to go to an event cuz everyone says its gonna be "teh awesomest event evah"! Take your time, do the research,ask questions,and get the required gear/uniforms. Take it from a person who spent hundreds on crappy uniforms and gear before getting it right. This is the golden age of reproduction uniforms and gear! Take advantage of it!
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 29, 2010 22:03:38 GMT -5
And a lot of times when kids come to the forum and ask questions about a certain impression they want to do they get their post crapped on by being made fun of and then they loose all interest in the hobby and get back to doing the tacticool games .
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Post by Fusilier on Sept 29, 2010 22:06:48 GMT -5
I thought this was a WW2 board and as such looking the part and using WW2 model guns made it so. Otherwise what's the point? >> You're right kalbs. I thought we got past those events where unmodified M-14's and burlap covered AK's were the norm. Sadly,I still see where they are acceptable at events. WHY? To get more warm bodies on the field?? As I said in an earlier post. I even tried to help a guy out by loaning him the extra Thompson I had to replace the MP-40 he was using as a GI. I pleaded with him.He refused. My point is,some people don't want to change. They will continue to show up at events with the wrong gear and guns,and they will still be allowed to play. THIS is why a lot of reenactors that I know,want no part of this. I gave up trying to get others to join. I'd be embarrassed from what I've seen in the events I've been to. I think also there should be an approved vendors list for uniforms and gear. I see people on here buying stuff from some really fly by night vendors all the time on here,and almost always some of us telling the person they shouldn't have bought from so and so vendor,or just because a vendor sells something,that doesn't make it right!
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kalbs
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,142
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Post by kalbs on Sept 29, 2010 22:15:54 GMT -5
If someone showed up to a WW2 game in flecktarn I don't think I would disallow him from playing but he may feel a bit left out in the game photos. I would point out and inform him where to get the right stuff and how to get better for future games. Adler has a good point about encourgament.
When it comes to the Board however, we should use the opportunity to encourage members to get it right. I don't know about others in here but I find the history and research about 80% of the fun.
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Post by Fusilier on Sept 29, 2010 22:22:39 GMT -5
If someone showed up to a WW2 game in flecktarn I don't think I would disallow him from playing but he may feel a bit left out in the game photos. I would point out and inform him where to get the right stuff and how to get better for future games. Adler has a good point about encourgament. When it comes to the Board however, we should use the opportunity to encourage members to get it right. I don't know about others in here but I find the history and research about 80% of the fun. >> Research is the BEST part! I'm constantly adding to my research library! Unfortunately,everybody doesn't share our love for finding the RIGHT documentation for their impression. Kids,and people in general want the quick fix. They can't even be bothered to use Google,or to crack open a book. They wanna ask a question then move on..Its the same in reenacting as it is here. Maybe its just me who wants to be the best I can be,and would be mortified if somebody pointed out something wrong with my impressions. I'm the same way when painting my models and miniatures. I spend days and weeks on the research just to get it right! Some people can't be bothered,or call me a stitch Nazi or some other fun name. I enjoy the digging and the history,and the research. Reenacting to me is more than just busting caps or spraying plastic all over. If Im going to play the part,I want to look the part as best I can.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 29, 2010 22:23:23 GMT -5
Kalbs~ The difference in attitude and more flys with honey rather than vinegar comes to mind.
Bob~ Some of us allow others with less than perfect impressions to get on the field with us so we can go about actually enjoying our hobby in a tactical battle it sure beats hanging out on a Saturday with two other guys with perfect impressions being a fashion show. The fella with the 40. Maybe he wasn't comfortable borrowing a gun from someone. Lots of people are not. Also an MP40 is a WW2 gun that a GI could have picked up off a dead German should his Thompson taken a dump on him. Seriously you were bothered by a GI using an enemy WW2 weapon? As for burlap covered unmodified M14's I'd take all of those set on semi over the whole US side using Thompsons.
Their is a vendor review area to post your observations.
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Post by Fusilier on Sept 29, 2010 22:29:24 GMT -5
Kalbs~ The difference in attitude and more flys with honey rather than vinegar comes to mind. Bob~ Some of us allow others with less than perfect impressions to get on the field with us so we can go about actually enjoying our hobby in a tactical battle it sure beats hanging out on a Saturday with two other guys with perfect impressions being a fashion show. The fella with the 40. Maybe he wasn't comfortable borrowing a gun from someone. Lots of people are not. Also an MP40 is a WW2 gun that a GI could have picked up off a dead German should his Thompson taken a dump on him. Seriously you were bothered by a GI using an enemy WW2 weapon? As for burlap covered unmodified M14's I'd take all of those set on semi over the whole US side using Thompsons. Their is a vendor review area to post your observations. >> I'll just say we have differing views on the state of the hobby and leave it at that lest I say something I shouldn't.. I'm not talking about a vendor review area,I'm talking about an APPROVED vendors list. I belong to a Civil War Campaigner forum that lists vendors who make the best items for said hobby. I think we need the same here. Some vendors sell plain crap. Others sell good,quality items.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 29, 2010 22:34:09 GMT -5
"lest I say something I shouldn't.." Yeahhhhh about that. Being diplomatic is something I struggle with myself. I'm sure you understand.
Approved vendor list is an idea worth persuing.
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kalbs
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,142
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Post by kalbs on Sept 29, 2010 22:37:08 GMT -5
Kalbs~ The difference in attitude and more flys with honey rather than vinegar comes to mind. I'm not sure what you are mean with the "fly" thing but if it's how the message is delivered then yes, critisism should be balanced with encouragement.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 29, 2010 22:43:44 GMT -5
I'm sorry I was unclear there. There's a difference in attitude with some people. Some people seem to be ready to jump down peoples throat and I find that a bad way to go about things. You can attract more flys with honey than vinegar is indeed encouragement goes along way to correcting people negative reinforcement seems counter productive to me.
You see a fella that wants to buy a M56 and wear it. You tell him thats wrong here's why don't waste your money. That is good criticisim I think. Telling a guy that has an m56 already bought go buy an M41 or don't show up is not so good. I have in the past suggested the 56 would be ok to get by with for a game or two but save up now for the right piece so it will be correct. I'd let him show up and play at my game because the guy is trying.
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kalbs
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,142
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Post by kalbs on Sept 29, 2010 22:56:21 GMT -5
Sure, I agree with that scenario CN. I also think Bob also has some valid points but some are a bit extreme so I'm stuck right in the middle I guess. The question is what is the minumum standards and that the opinions of acceptance differ between us all.
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Post by 10target on Sept 29, 2010 23:07:10 GMT -5
Sorry about the flecktarn. I got it backwards. Anyway this pissy fit needs to end now.
1.WWII airsofters must be equipped with WWII gear, hence the "WWII" part. 2.If beginners are not equipped in the manner then lead them in the right direction without hassle and possibly ruining the sport for the beginner. 3.If a player plays for impressions mainly or enjoyment mainly don't jack them for it;it's their reasons of play not yours, and I realize that now, so sorry Shawneb. 4. And finally pissing on the internet has never gotten anybody anywhere. Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics, if you win...YOUR STILL Guy on a short busED. Case closed (hopefully.)
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 29, 2010 23:07:33 GMT -5
We keep going around in circles , everyone has their own opinion and we keep talking back and forth about the same thing.
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Post by 10target on Sept 29, 2010 23:11:13 GMT -5
One big, juicy, greasy, disgusting, engulfing, fat, atrocious, never-ending, waste of time, this Guy on a short bused one, this is.
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Post by Fusilier on Sept 29, 2010 23:14:47 GMT -5
Sure, I agree with that scenario CN. I also think Bob also has some valid points but some are a bit extreme so I'm stuck right in the middle I guess. The question is what is the minumum standards and that the opinions of acceptance differ between us all. >> Extreme? NO, Blunt,yes. My views are pretty much black and white. And I'm amongst a lot of gray on here.
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Post by Fusilier on Sept 29, 2010 23:16:02 GMT -5
One big, juicy, greasy, disgusting, engulfing, fat, atrocious, never-ending, waste of time, this Guy on a short bused one, this is. >> Right,and I get yelled at....
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Sept 29, 2010 23:16:51 GMT -5
Grey is good
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kalbs
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,142
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Post by kalbs on Sept 29, 2010 23:19:04 GMT -5
One big, juicy, greasy, disgusting, engulfing, fat, atrocious, never-ending, waste of time, this Guy on a short bused one, this is. I disagree, it is obviously an issue and in the recent past has also been discussed in the moderator section. This thread about acceptable standards of WW2 airsoft so it is a very valid topic.
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Post by 10target on Sept 29, 2010 23:22:02 GMT -5
I didn't know you could get yelled at from a post. J/K haha. I see our veiws as black and white as well. Maybe you a beet coloo bliiiindee?!?!?!?!?!?!
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