Ersatzjack
Corporal
"That silly Franz... he thinks we are winning."
Posts: 1,093
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Post by Ersatzjack on Sept 29, 2010 23:22:21 GMT -5
What it comes down to is that we don't play in a vacuum. I hear a lot of "what's good for me" or nobody should be telling others what "they should do" or that type of thing but the truth is that groups have expectations. Some members have higher expectations and others have lower but overall, if you attach yourself to a group then expect to meet their standards even if only slowly. You can't fight that. If you don't like the standards then you can work from within to foist your will on the group and change the level expected or leave and start a different group. I tend to lean towards higher standards attracting a better caliber player but others could be opposed to that. Just so as long as we all understand that in a group activity it's not about what the individual wants to do but what in the long term is healthy for the group. If you have ten farbs (not intended to be derisive but descriptive) that enjoy playing together than I see no problem. Likewise if as Fusilier relates you get ten hard-core GI's that revel in accuracy who should complain? But the trouble starts when you mix them and then something has to give. The trick is to be flexible and find a group that you can co-exist with.
Labrador - great link. I really enjoyed that. Why doesn't Pacific War fly over there? I mean that would be so cool. I suppose no one to play GI's? Anyhow care to comment on that? It would be interesting. I've noticed that Tanaka makes a Japanese rifle now so there would be a weapon available.
As for getting that WW2 feeling, I still get it too. But only at airsoft events and not blank-fire or living history stuff. Those have been done for other reasons but not to get my adrenaline going. I recall an event a few back at Big Lake where I had a long-time blank fire guy with me in the trenches and we steam-rolled like seven defenders in short order using bb's and grenades and then got mowed down because we celebrated instead of consolidating our gains but he was ecstatic and smiling from ear to ear and stated to me that "you don't do this in a tactical" to which I was happy to agree and happier yet to share with him the experience as he is the owner of the property in Big Lake and it would be nice if he keeps up his interest. I think if you can't get the WW2 feeling in airsoft you aren't trying hard enough.
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kalbs
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,142
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Post by kalbs on Sept 29, 2010 23:31:28 GMT -5
>> Extreme? NO, Blunt,yes. My views are pretty much black and white. And I'm amongst a lot of gray on here. hahaha... not black & white, just black and to the point. A devil's advocate is always good to have on board. Love your post EJ, well stated
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Post by labrador on Sept 30, 2010 6:06:35 GMT -5
Hi Ersatzjack, Actually the pacific does have its supporters here. Most of us play Philippine Scouts and that is the one impression that unites almost all airsofters here, Both Axis and Allied here. I think what prevents pacific themed games is the lack of affordable japanese guns. A lot of the guys here would jump at playing japanese if affordable japanese guns were available Tanakas are way out of the price range for 90 percent of us. We have a tailor who can do the uniforms, We've got replica helmets but no weapons. The other thing setting us back is lack of garands. We look like the Mob when we play Philippine Scouts due to the fact that we are almost completely equipped with thompsons. there are around 30-40 of us and 3 playable garands between us.
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Ersatzjack
Corporal
"That silly Franz... he thinks we are winning."
Posts: 1,093
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Post by Ersatzjack on Sept 30, 2010 10:17:29 GMT -5
Oh? That explains that. Cool vehicles and impressions still. I like the SPA.
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Post by 10target on Sept 30, 2010 11:16:30 GMT -5
I don't think I'd care to have a Japanese impression, simply because I represent my grandfather when I play airsoft, and his job was to kick their ass.
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Post by volkssturm on Sept 30, 2010 16:45:26 GMT -5
Hi Ersatzjack, Actually the pacific does have its supporters here. Most of us play Philippine Scouts and that is the one impression that unites almost all airsofters here, Both Axis and Allied here. I think what prevents pacific themed games is the lack of affordable japanese guns. A lot of the guys here would jump at playing japanese if affordable japanese guns were available Tanakas are way out of the price range for 90 percent of us. We have a tailor who can do the uniforms, We've got replica helmets but no weapons. The other thing setting us back is lack of garands. We look like the Mob when we play Philippine Scouts due to the fact that we are almost completely equipped with thompsons. there are around 30-40 of us and 3 playable garands between us. Didn't most Philippine soldiers carry the M1917 Enfield? The Garand was still new and in short supply early in the war. Did the Scouts get first dibs on what was available? Of course, it's a moot point, since no one makes an Airsoft Enfield.
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Post by labrador on Sept 30, 2010 17:04:00 GMT -5
As far as I know, The scouts were among the first equipped with the Garand and among the first to use them in battle. Most Philippine commonwealth troops had the enfield and springfield.
10target:I've a funny little story on Japanese impressions. As Filipino reenactors we have always debated the issue of wearing enemy uniforms at veteran events. The thing is, we always felt that it was necessary that enemy personnel also be represented to educate the public and to create a complete representation of WW2forces in the Philippines. After much debate our group decided to include a few japanese reenactors scattered among the Scout, Commonwealth and Guerilla impressions at an annual meeting of veterans to commemorate the Battle of Besang Pass in 1945. To our surprise our Pinoy impressions were almost completely ignored by the vets...Everyone wanted to have their pictures taken and talk with the Japanese. I guess it was a unique opportunity for them to look at the enemy equipment up close. Either that for them, it was just plain amusing.
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Post by gman on Sept 30, 2010 18:13:15 GMT -5
In reading the entire article "LIVING HISTORY RANT" the very last line sums it up.
That's why it may be preferable to stop trying to make this hobby out to be something it's not.
What are we as a WWII Airsoft community trying to accomplish?
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Post by CharleyNovember on Sept 30, 2010 22:03:22 GMT -5
Those opinions will vary greatly. I'd love to get a consensus and a minimum standard but the standards of many will vary too much to conform.
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Post by Fusilier on Sept 30, 2010 22:49:32 GMT -5
Those opinions will vary greatly. I'd love to get a consensus and a minimum standard but the standards of many will vary too much to conform. >> I know this may get deleted,but I have time to waste,so here it goes! Over on the Civil War Campaigner site,there are NO standards per se. EVERYONE on there is of like mind. There is an approved vendor list, as I said. There are posts that everyone is to read first so as not to ask repetitive questions every other day. EVERYONE over there knows what is crap,and what is not. They have a thread for those who want to buy and sell. It is ONLY for authentic items,and not so called garbage that is sold on sutlers row at events. All that tends to keep the boards free of arguments or discussions that happen on here all too frequently. Most on here may think that it is harsh,but it is what it is. If you don't like how things are there,you move on. You don't get ridiculed,abused or anything. The rules are there. there is no "I wanna wear my Sears work shirt and nobody can stop me" nonsense over there. Post something like that more than once,and you will be given a warning,maybe once... What I'm trying to say is,this seems like a free for all. Everyone seems to be free to do,use,wear what they want and thats ok with everyone. Sure,you have a vendor review thread,but one persons great review is another's horror show! Do you want high standards,low standards, or no standards?? Do you want to cater to young kids who just wanna spray plastic all over and not care what to wear or how to do things,or do you want experienced reenactors or Veterans who know their stuff ? I know why reenactors don't want to try airsoft. I know why I didn't. Honestly, I'm not optimistic about the state of WW2 airsofting. Some may disagree,thats your right. I'm just calling it as I see it. I'm even re-thinking my future in the hobby.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 1, 2010 0:31:37 GMT -5
Let me see? Civil war reenacting has been going on for how long? ?? WW2 blank fire for? and now WW2 airsoft. I suspect 90% of our challenge with regard to consensus of opinion about what the norms are fall under the fact that it is still an embrionic hobby with a very small niche of players at this point. We still significantly lack affordable selection of weapons and are still drawing from a variety of ranks. Airsofters, reenactors, casual buddies and folks who aren't sure if it's something they want to do or not. Another challenge is that even though we are a small band of brothers there is within us a wide variety of expectations as expressed by the folks in this thread. To date, I have seen the most successful growth of the hobby occur with a corp of knowledgeeable but accepting folks dedicated to doing it right but patient and courteous enough with others to encourage getting them there. Adler, Hellmutt, the War Department, the Regiment and CN are frankly the template for getting there that I have seen the greatest success with. I have no trouble experiencing WW2 moments, comraderie, and escapist suspension of reality playing at our local events using airsoft weapons and sound effects. I go to the events to experience my Walter Mitty fantasies and relive my youth. I'm way too old and way too slow to look or act the part but participate in a way that I hope best contributes to the event. My focus is mostly the tactics and ambiance and of course camp sites, vehicles and impressions significantly impact that but for me I'd rather hear the proper background music listen to lingo from the time, see proper formations and reactions, proper RTO procedures medical treatment and realistic missions briefings and debriefs than perfect uniforms. Weapons I know we still have to live with. (A fact Fuslier somehow seems oblivious of although I know he knows better) Because these are the things that float my boat they are the things I focus on at the events. Not for a minute do I think other peoples interests are wrong they are just different. I have never been to an airsoft event that I didn't enjoy and feel sorry for the folks who can't seem to have fun no matter what they do. A bad day of airsoft is a ball in my book. If a hobby isn't fun then somone has to seriously ask themselves why they do it. Find like minded folks and let other people enjoy what ever the hell they want to enjoy. If Chairsofters just like posing at events in their costumes and bunkers God love em. A reasonable effort and willingness to improve is all I ask. If anyone expresses an interest in participating and actually shows up I outfit him and do everything I can to make him feel welcome. I try to be gracious and accepting in ways the local reenacting community with all it's knowledge, sophistication and elitism had no interest in extending to me 15 years ago. I don't fault them for it (I looked rediculous) and it's their club and their standards. I think in snubbing me with their arrogance (deliberate or not) they missed out on a passionate and potentially positive contributor to their community. I don't want to make that same mistake with new folks poking their head with interest into our hobby.
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
Posts: 2,859
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Post by Adler69 on Oct 1, 2010 3:28:54 GMT -5
Well said Captain.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Oct 1, 2010 7:56:04 GMT -5
Where the hell is the "applause smilie" Well said John. The best post so far that describes my feelings for me. Thank you John.
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Post by volkssturm on Oct 1, 2010 19:19:06 GMT -5
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