Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Aug 27, 2011 22:00:30 GMT -5
Some photos of WWII weapons in use by Rebel Forces during the Libyan conflict. Carcano in the background Modified K98k DP28 M1919A6 MP38 , but no mag in sight Another M1919 , on a MAG Tripod And not a weapon , but still WWII , an Italian M33 helmet
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ackack
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12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjungend"
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Post by ackack on Aug 27, 2011 22:02:55 GMT -5
Its amazing that these weapons are still in combat but they are rebels and will use whatever they can get their hands on.
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Aug 27, 2011 22:07:11 GMT -5
I saw the same thing in Sarajevo while peacekeeping , Bosnian Forces had tons of WWII German gear and uniforms , i even saw a couple of guys running around with FJ helmets.
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ackack
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Post by ackack on Aug 27, 2011 22:11:05 GMT -5
that is an intresting kar98
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Aug 27, 2011 22:13:07 GMT -5
It is , the stock probably broke on it and he just added a home made metal stock to it , or it's an attempt at a folding stock k98k.
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Adler69
Master sergeant
Legio Patria Nostra
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Post by Adler69 on Aug 27, 2011 22:32:04 GMT -5
This one really hurts Burned out M1 Steel Pots in a Libyan Army Base destroyed during a NATO Air Strike
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gadge
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Post by gadge on Aug 28, 2011 3:56:13 GMT -5
The first pic also has a slightly post war 'stirling' british SMG, a development of the WWII Patchet SMG. A friend of mine if Bosnia was engaged by a serbian WWII 37mm flak cannon... he was in a challenger II at the time so it didnt enage him for *very* long Equally WWII soviet T34s and PAK 88s were out there, a few STg44 and MG42s Up until the the 1970 Syria was using StuGs and Panzer IV and the Egyptians British WWII Archer SPGs and similar
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Aug 29, 2011 21:35:15 GMT -5
A couple more Another DP28 Lee-Enfield MkIV
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ackack
Private
12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjungend"
Posts: 317
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Post by ackack on Aug 29, 2011 21:58:47 GMT -5
wow.. Im loving all the ww2 guns but thise poor helmets
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Post by volkssturm on Aug 29, 2011 22:50:04 GMT -5
Boy! It's like "Libya! The World's Largest Army Surplus Store."
Interesting how many rebels are carrying FN-FALs.
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Aug 30, 2011 0:04:24 GMT -5
Libya was a major user of the FN FAL during the '60s/'70s/'80s along with the AK47 , there is a reason the FN FAL is called the Right arm of Democracy.
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gadge
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Post by gadge on Aug 30, 2011 7:09:24 GMT -5
Yup apart from the USA nearly every NATO country used a FAL or variant from the late 50s to the 90s so lots of them found there way into colonial and allied armies
Over 90 nations use or until recently used FN FAL or the SLR L1a1 as their rifle.
As for 'poor helmets' you'll see a lot of Afrcan countries using the East German M56 Stalhelm whihc - believe it or not - is actually ballistic protection wise - considered to be the *best* steel helmet ever produced.
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Post by gunfreak on Aug 30, 2011 12:57:26 GMT -5
If you have to go to war with a bolt action rifle it might as well be a enfield
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Aug 31, 2011 0:55:23 GMT -5
And the Ma Deuce makes an appearance as a ground weapon and not on Armor
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Echelon
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Post by Echelon on Aug 31, 2011 11:29:11 GMT -5
Awesome! Now all they need is some real cammo, and they will be set!
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Aug 31, 2011 12:16:25 GMT -5
They have real camo.
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Aug 31, 2011 12:18:12 GMT -5
They have real camo, besides, wearing camo doesnt make you a better fighter.
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Echelon
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Post by Echelon on Aug 31, 2011 13:12:45 GMT -5
Woodland, and chocolate chip isn't real camo, especially for today's standards. This isn't 1982. Besides, I didn't say anything about them not being fantastic fighters.
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gadge
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Post by gadge on Aug 31, 2011 13:44:55 GMT -5
Woodland, and chocolate chip isn't real camo, especially for today's standards. This isn't 1982. Besides, I didn't say anything about them not being fantastic fighters. Weird... last time i checked they still worked really well. If anything the 'camo by todays' standards is bloody awful. The ACU blue grey stuff is appalling as a camo pattern. In reality the camo pattern is largely irrelevant past being a 'brand' for an army and a recognisable IFF factor. Any drab colour coupled with good movement discipline, personal cam discipline and local foliage works just as well. Look at Vietnam, were the vietcong any less effective fighting in black PJs than in gucci tiger stripes? US Woodland was a fantastic pattern that works very very well in anything non arid and the 6 colour desert is fantastic in rocky deserts..
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mccallion
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Post by mccallion on Aug 31, 2011 13:54:44 GMT -5
so also by using your standards Echelon this means that dot 44, oak a, oak b, splinter a,b tan and water and all the other ww2 camos arnt Good for today's standards hmm well that totally wrong Dot 44 blows acu out of the water as being a way better camo pattern just because it isn't digitalized pixels doesn't make it better even using today's standards
McCallion
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Echelon
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Post by Echelon on Aug 31, 2011 15:13:25 GMT -5
Woodland, and chocolate chip isn't real camo, especially for today's standards. This isn't 1982. Besides, I didn't say anything about them not being fantastic fighters. Weird... last time i checked they still worked really well. If anything the 'camo by todays' standards is bloody awful. The ACU blue grey stuff is appalling as a camo pattern. In reality the camo pattern is largely irrelevant past being a 'brand' for an army and a recognisable IFF factor. Any drab colour coupled with good movement discipline, personal cam discipline and local foliage works just as well. Look at Vietnam, were the vietcong any less effective fighting in black PJs than in gucci tiger stripes? US Woodland was a fantastic pattern that works very very well in anything non arid and the 6 colour desert is fantastic in rocky deserts.. However "great" these camo patters were, they still aren't great. I agree with you though, that ACU is awful. But you have a TON of modern patters than blow these out of the water: Multicam, AOR1, AOR2, and AOR3 to name a few. Nothing is better for universal theaters.
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Post by volkssturm on Aug 31, 2011 16:09:35 GMT -5
Personally I think camo is overrated. Slightly faded OD's blend in with most backgrounds pretty well. As far as I can tell from pics on the news, the IDF still mostly wears various shades of OD, and they have more actual combat experience than most armies. Some camo patterns give marginally better concealment in certain environments. But, once you start moving, no camo is going to make you disappear. But, gosh, those camo uniforms sure look neat ;D.
As for ACU, that's just another example of the US Army running tests to determine the best, and then picking the loser. What the %*$#@ were they thinking?
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Echelon
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Post by Echelon on Aug 31, 2011 16:19:53 GMT -5
Agreed. At least they are issuing multicam as the norm (finally), and are testing several others in Af. right now. The sooner ACU is dead, the better.
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Post by gunfreak on Aug 31, 2011 17:04:32 GMT -5
Actualy the best a soldier can be in us a nice tuxido, after all james bond, has surivded for 50 years, most of the time he was in tux, so by that logic, Navy SEALs should also be in tux, they are allready super badass, but getting them in a hand made tailor tuxido should make them invincable.
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gadge
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Post by gadge on Aug 31, 2011 17:49:37 GMT -5
TBH, even multicam is all it's cracked up be. It's rubbish in European woodlands.... luckily as all of europe is devoid of significant oil reserves we're unlikly to be deployed there now the threat of the soviets is over but if we were you'd stick out like a thumb in a german forest in it.
British DPM is a classic example of a good hardwearing useful pattern. Until cadpat came out it out performed everything else in the world and had done for 30 years. However it's also become the British Armys 'trade mark', so much so that the new arid uniform deliberately incorporates the same 'drawings' to keep commonality.
As others have also said... camo is only a small element of being an effective soldier.. if your drlls are gash you're going to get slotted even wering the latest go-fasta gucci-flage.
The things that get you spotted and killed are:
Shape Shadow Sihoulette Surface/Shine Speed of movement.
The best camo in the world only sorts out one of those (surface) and a good ghillie might knock off 'shape'... the rest is up to the man.
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gadge
Corporal
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Post by gadge on Aug 31, 2011 17:51:04 GMT -5
Actualy the best a soldier can be in us a nice tuxido, after all james bond, has surivded for 50 years, most of the time he was in tux, so by that logic, Navy SEALs should also be in tux, they are allready super badass, but getting them in a hand made tailor tuxido should make them invincable. *Technically* James Bond is a 'sailor' as he's (in the books) a Commander in the Royal Navy
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Post by gunfreak on Aug 31, 2011 18:30:00 GMT -5
Technically so is Navy SEALs, they follow american navy ranks.
So in theory you can have a Navy SEAL of rank of Commander in tux killing specter opretives for like 20 years.
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Aug 31, 2011 18:41:12 GMT -5
FYI , Multiscam is an ACU Pattern . What the US Army adopted was UCP ( Universal Camouflage Pattern )
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Echelon
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Post by Echelon on Aug 31, 2011 19:01:48 GMT -5
FYI , Multiscam is an ACU Pattern . What the US Army adopted was UCP ( Universal Camouflage Pattern ) Technically ALL current US Military adopted camouflage is "UDP", including ACU (the pattern), Multicam, MARPAT, "CADPAT", Etc. What point are you trying to make? You boys are thinking way too much into this.
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Adler69
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Post by Adler69 on Aug 31, 2011 19:19:51 GMT -5
FYI , Multiscam is an ACU Pattern . What the US Army adopted was UCP ( Universal Camouflage Pattern ) Technically ALL current US Military adopted camouflage is "UDP", including ACU (the pattern), Multicam, MARPAT, "CADPAT", Etc. What point are you trying to make? You boys are thinking way too much into this. Kids keep calling UCP the wrong name . Point , Digital camo is Guy on a short bused , like Gadge said , British DPM is the best camo around , blends in great in the Forest of Europe or in any jungle around the world. The UK Forces even had the best vehicle camo during Desert Shield / Storm , i remember seeing their vehicles almost vanish in the early morning light in the desert , that pale pink was awesome.
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