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Post by knights52 on Nov 18, 2011 19:38:04 GMT -5
I have plenty of wood to bring, and I'm only 15 minutes from the field. I have a nice bundle of cherry for ya, it'll smell great.
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Post by Schmozilla on Nov 18, 2011 21:00:55 GMT -5
Bought a bag of wood too. Cya tomorrow morning.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Nov 19, 2011 7:37:26 GMT -5
Just left at like 7:00 see you guys
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Post by piper318 on Nov 19, 2011 9:10:55 GMT -5
well unfortunately we will not be Abel to make it after all . have a grate time Avery one
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Post by Schmozilla on Nov 20, 2011 17:53:28 GMT -5
How did it end up? I left this morning remember?
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Post by BURT "The Great" on Nov 20, 2011 18:50:12 GMT -5
Behind the Eastern Front November 19th-20th Its really sad to see that my returning game to the sport was one of complete and udder disrespect . I really appreciated those that shot my WW2 German command tent not once, not twice but several times and then tried to make Ray and I out be drunken unreasonable fools for NOT allowing it. I’m sorry but the tent and the items inside both reproduction and original, a lot of which are family items are not things to be looked at as simply nothing. I purchased those items for all to enjoy both visually and to immerse those that LOVE the era. Its just sad to see the sport I left 3 years ago do to health issues had deteriorated to the saddened level it has today. I’m so sorry that I didn’t want my TENT nor items inside the camping area used as targets.. Including the dozen or so oil burning lamps in the camping area. If I sound unreasonable then so be it but never in my 11 years of airsoft have I ever seen this type of disrespect…
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Post by aj czarkowski on Nov 20, 2011 18:59:47 GMT -5
too tired to type up an AAR right now but will soon
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Post by bacon47 on Nov 21, 2011 10:31:14 GMT -5
I had nothing less than an excellent time. Very realistic and sportsmanship was at it's finest. I have been playing airsoft since 2006 but had only gone to Day of days before this event and now i'm hooked. Thanks for everyone who came and thanks Brandon for hosting the event! If I sound unreasonable then so be it but never in my 11 years of airsoft have I ever seen this type of disrespect… I found you to be unreasonable. I understand that you were upset, but screaming uncontrollably about how your going to mutilate/ torture and kill someone because they shot your tent is simply unacceptable. And I haven't been playing airsoft for 11 years, but since I have, I have never seen someone so out of control that they are threatening another person like you did. I think that is why some might have thought you were drunk, because your behavior was so out of line at points.
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Nov 21, 2011 11:24:10 GMT -5
Very Concerned for the Future of WW2 Airsofting:
As many of you are by now aware, Joshua and I had left the event angered and concerned about the safety of property and the safety of persons, particularly ourselves, during the night gameplay surrounding this past event.
To summarize my concerns: There was full blown combat taking place inside and surrounding the German campsite. In the six to seven years of participating in WW2 Airsoft, this is the first event that I have been, where it seemingly was allowed to fire at/around the Germans tents and surrounding equipment.
Why this would be a problem, some of the less mature and less experienced among us might ask. Well, my primary concern was for the safety of myself and others participating in the event. My secondary concern was the possibility of damage and even perhaps the loss of personal property. I will first address my concerns for safety.
1: There was oil/fuel burning lanterns inside and surrounding some of the Tents that were being shot at. For me it seems to be common sense that this is very much a fire hazard. JP didn’t seem to think so as much as I and Joshua did. His response to our concern thereof was that he had instructed players to not shoot at them.
However, during the night fighting, blinded by a spot light, players couldn’t even see that they were shooting into rather large tents. How could they avoid a small oil lantern then when they couldn’t even see an 8ft by 8ft tent? Thus my point is exactly is that there shouldn’t be shooting at or near oil lanterns inside the German campsites.
2: Players were tripping over the ropes that were securing the tents that also had oil lanterns burning inside them; while there were people inside those very same tents. Do I even need to address the fire hazard and safety hazards surrounding this issue? I hope not.
2a: People were also falling into and using the German Tents as cover as they advanced into the German encampment. These tents again had burning oil lanterns in them. Luck is it to whomever the dumb applesauce head was that fell into our tent that we were there to stop our oil lantern from swinging dangerously when this incident occurred. Your stupidity whoever you are nearly caused a fire inside our tent.
3: There were players drinking alcohol at the German Campfire that did not have eye protection on when the fighting broke out at the German encampment. Again, I need not really even address the safety concerns here now do I?
4: During the night operation, at one point, The German players moved out to continue the fighting in the town area while Joshua and I were packing our equipment in the Car. When we left, the German Campsite fire and oil lanterns were left unattended. It is illegal in NYS to leave a fire unattended. It may not be in CT, however, regardless, it is rather a foolish thing to do considering the proximity of canvas tents and other dry dead crap lying on the grounds when a good wind is blowing glowing embers onto the tents.
5: There were multiple incidents where I personally was witness to German players not wearing eye protection in the German Camp area when fighting was going on. Usually, this isn’t a problem at an event since the German Campsite is usually off limits to gun fire. However, being that this event was clearly setup differently, it was made into a safety issue.
Now for my concerns about peoples personal property! In all the years I’ve been participating at these events it has never been okay to shoot at the German Tents, It has never been ok to shoot at or near the oil lanterns and it has never been okay to shoot at or near the real and reproduction equipment within the German encampment.
When we realized un-expectantly that our tents were taking fire we became angry and yelled out to the players that were doing so to stop. We were met with even more incoming fire and at even closer ranges. The disrespect for our personal property, property that we only brought to this event for the enjoyment of the living history aspect of the gameplay, that we’ve been so accustomed too, is unacceptable.
Furthermore, when we had enough of being put in danger of being lit on fire or having our personal property destroyed, we were met with contention by JP for choosing to leave. Even worse the stupid applesauce head had the audacity to slander us to our facing calling us drunks and irrational drunks. For those who have been participating in these events with us over the last nine years now; should know that we have always banned the consumption of alcohol at our events and we do not drink anyway. In fact, we were shocked Friday night that there was alcohol at an Airsoft event. I am personally now ashamed and embarrassed to have even had a single beer Friday night before gameplay Saturday. That one beer clearly made myself and Joshua irrational drunks, is that right JP?
A Note to Brandon, You and your guys were very respectful and understanding. I hope that our disagreement does not reflect badly on you. In the future I highly recommend that you work with Jerry or one of the other more experienced event organizers in putting together a safe fun environment to have a game. I’ve said my piece.
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Nov 21, 2011 11:40:37 GMT -5
Now, onto the the better part of the event. I had a really awesome time up until dark it got dark out. The Russian guys and the Partisians gave us a run for our money. Attacking on the flanks always made it a whole lot of fun. Good acting all around and everyone was very sporting. I'll have more to say about the daytime later.
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Post by BURT "The Great" on Nov 21, 2011 12:11:43 GMT -5
I had nothing less than an excellent time. Very realistic and sportsmanship was at it's finest. I have been playing airsoft since 2006 but had only gone to Day of days before this event and now i'm hooked. Thanks for everyone who came and thanks Brandon for hosting the event! If I sound unreasonable then so be it but never in my 11 years of airsoft have I ever seen this type of disrespect… I found you to be unreasonable. I understand that you were upset, but screaming uncontrollably about how your going to mutilate/ torture and kill someone because they shot your tent is simply unacceptable. And I haven't been playing airsoft for 11 years, but since I have, I have never seen someone so out of control that they are threatening another person like you did. I think that is why some might have thought you were drunk, because your behavior was so out of line at points. Your probably correct but unfortunately after requesting the first dozen or so times of requesting them to stop they didn’t listen so I thought to be more voicetress might get the point accrues but even then that didn’t help as it got worse and the person that ran into my tent that was it. It just teaches me not to bring anything to events WE ourselves don’t hold in Upstate New York. Its truly unfortunate that all this transpired on both sides of the issue but it did and so we move on and hopefully all the more wiser.
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Post by cryonics on Nov 21, 2011 12:41:47 GMT -5
At first I was not going to dignify Burt’s post with a response but Ray’s, personal attacks do deserve some kind of minimal response.
1) From the beginning everyone knew that the German camp would be a main focus of Partisan attacks both during the day and at night. 2) Oil Lanterns were on at the beginning of dusk just before the night fighting and through the battle. At no time did Ray or Josh express any concern over this until the end of the battle after their tent was hit. 3) At some point in the evening both Ray and Josh left to the store to purchase supplies and upon their return in the middle of battle you both went into your tent turned on your oil lamps and never came back out. It was rumored by multiple people that you both were drinking in your tent. 4) The only tent that had lit oil lamps inside was your tent. No other tents had any oil lamps lit or unlit inside them. 5) At some point several hours into the night fight, someone shot at your tent and extreme vulgarity and threats came out from one of you. The anger and loudness you expressed caused many more people to think you both were drinking. 6) Ray, not since high school has any one stooped so low as to personal name calling. Even my 15 year old son could not believe that kind of immaturity.
While we welcomed your attendance at this event and really looked forward to your participation and contributions, I personally believe this whole matter could have been handled differently. Had either of you came to any of us before the battle or during the battle and expressed any concern over oil lamps being a danger in the cross fire, we would have gladly respected your concerns and removed them immediately. Instead you both chose to lock yourself inside your tent with everyone wondering why neither of you would participate in the battle and then angrily left the event after the battle. Had you communicated better with us before the fact instead of after, I believe this incident could have been avoided and you both could have had a much better experience.
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Nov 21, 2011 12:46:54 GMT -5
You would be pretty angry too, if due to the actions of others, yourself and your belongings were nearly lite on fire.
I personally think Joshua wasn’t out of line so much so as you think. While most everyone was out fighting and not really paying any attention to what was going on, Josh and I were inside our tent repairing a couple of guns that had some minor malfunctions and not so minor. Had we not been in our tent at the time, we probably would have had a fire in it due to the thoughtless actions of others and the thoughtless planning of the event organizers to have a firefight inside the German camping area.
Furthermore, I found it very, very un-reasonable and disrespectful of the players whom, after the first couple warnings and then after the threating warnings, to have continued to shoot at the tents, run into them, trip over the securing ropes and whatnot. Hell, some people even got closer to the tent and shot what seemed to be an entire magazine into it. It is not as if a few stray shots were hitting the tents or equipment. People were almost purposely firing into it. And before anyone says, “oh, bb’s won’t go through the canvas”, experience tells us otherwise. Sam’s canvas US staff tent has holes in it for that very reason. So do a couple of the Zeltsban tent quarters that have been used in the past to cover the tops of MG-Nests; thus is why we have traditionally always banned fighting around the encampments.
I saw a lot of new faces at this event and not a lot of old faces. Personally, given the lack of sensibility surrounding the safety of everyone and the lack of respect given to a few, I can see why I didn’t see a lot of old familiar faces. My unit may never again come to an event held by people that cannot understand these simple concerns; those concerns being: the safety of persons and property.
Sincerely, “the unreasonable, irrational drunks”
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Nov 21, 2011 12:49:15 GMT -5
@ cryonics
First of all, what personal attacks and namecalling?
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Nov 21, 2011 12:56:10 GMT -5
@ cryonics First of all, what personal attacks and namecalling? " Even worse the stupid applesauce head had the audacity to slander us " Oh, IDK why what I actually wrote was grabbed by the autofilter, but it wasn't namecalling or cursing. I don't find any point in calling people names or slandering them. My primary concern is with the saftey of persons and property. Oh, and if saying someone is stupid for doing something is name-calling, I am guilty of that. Yep. Oh well. EDIT: I'm glad you feel however describing someone as stupid for doing something inappropriate is of course your main concern. Forget what I had to say about the safety concerns at the event. Also, you made it sound as if we only had oil lanters burning, how far from the truth. They were all around the encampment. The other troop tent didn't have them true, but the wood built bunker did and so did the open walled tent. It had two actually.
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Post by Schmozilla on Nov 21, 2011 14:58:32 GMT -5
There was a rather big hole in the zeltbahn I was sleeping in, and when all the Russians came and killed us all, I was sleeping. It was kind of stupid to fight with oil lanterns, the spotlight was cool, but I'm not really going to support this night fighting stuff. I tripped in the VIP rescue about 5 times before I went back. But a word of suggestion, the day fighting was the best ive seen, it would have been better if we just all stopped playing at like 6 or 7. I didn't get any hits and our team got maybe 2 or 3 hits rather than the day where we got 10 or the whole team killed. Hopefully we can try to stay away from camp ambushes and battlers, some equipment was in danger. What if we just went to the Russian camps and just threw oil lanterns and shot at their tents, also, I'm gonna be a little child here but I was shot a few times point blank by some partisans during the day, :/ so the event was probably a 6/10 in my eyes.
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Post by bacon47 on Nov 21, 2011 16:05:52 GMT -5
You would be pretty angry too, if due to the actions of others, yourself and your belongings were nearly lite on fire. I personally think Joshua wasn’t out of line so much so as you think. While most everyone was out fighting and not really paying any attention to what was going on, Josh and I were inside our tent repairing a couple of guns that had some minor malfunctions and not so minor. Had we not been in our tent at the time, we probably would have had a fire in it due to the thoughtless actions of others and the thoughtless planning of the event organizers to have a firefight inside the German camping area. Furthermore, I found it very, very un-reasonable and disrespectful of the players whom, after the first couple warnings and then after the threating warnings, to have continued to shoot at the tents, run into them, trip over the securing ropes and whatnot. Hell, some people even got closer to the tent and shot what seemed to be an entire magazine into it. It is not as if a few stray shots were hitting the tents or equipment. People were almost purposely firing into it. And before anyone says, “oh, bb’s won’t go through the canvas”, experience tells us otherwise. Sam’s canvas US staff tent has holes in it for that very reason. So do a couple of the Zeltsban tent quarters that have been used in the past to cover the tops of MG-Nests; thus is why we have traditionally always banned fighting around the encampments. I saw a lot of new faces at this event and not a lot of old faces. Personally, given the lack of sensibility surrounding the safety of everyone and the lack of respect given to a few, I can see why I didn’t see a lot of old familiar faces. My unit may never again come to an event held by people that cannot understand these simple concerns; those concerns being: the safety of persons and property. Sincerely, “the unreasonable, irrational drunks” I'm not saying that I wouldn't be angry, but threatening to kill someone is beyond inappropriate. And as far as you almost getting "lit on fire", that's you own fault. You went into a tent in the middle of a fire fight and lit your lanterns... if you were so concerned why didn't you unlit the lanterns? Sincerely, the "reasonable, sober, majority"
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Post by BURT "The Great" on Nov 21, 2011 16:23:18 GMT -5
You would be pretty angry too, if due to the actions of others, yourself and your belongings were nearly lite on fire. I personally think Joshua wasn’t out of line so much so as you think. While most everyone was out fighting and not really paying any attention to what was going on, Josh and I were inside our tent repairing a couple of guns that had some minor malfunctions and not so minor. Had we not been in our tent at the time, we probably would have had a fire in it due to the thoughtless actions of others and the thoughtless planning of the event organizers to have a firefight inside the German camping area. Furthermore, I found it very, very un-reasonable and disrespectful of the players whom, after the first couple warnings and then after the threating warnings, to have continued to shoot at the tents, run into them, trip over the securing ropes and whatnot. Hell, some people even got closer to the tent and shot what seemed to be an entire magazine into it. It is not as if a few stray shots were hitting the tents or equipment. People were almost purposely firing into it. And before anyone says, “oh, bb’s won’t go through the canvas”, experience tells us otherwise. Sam’s canvas US staff tent has holes in it for that very reason. So do a couple of the Zeltsban tent quarters that have been used in the past to cover the tops of MG-Nests; thus is why we have traditionally always banned fighting around the encampments. I saw a lot of new faces at this event and not a lot of old faces. Personally, given the lack of sensibility surrounding the safety of everyone and the lack of respect given to a few, I can see why I didn’t see a lot of old familiar faces. My unit may never again come to an event held by people that cannot understand these simple concerns; those concerns being: the safety of persons and property. Sincerely, “the unreasonable, irrational drunks” I'm not saying that I wouldn't be angry, but threatening to kill someone is beyond inappropriate. And as far as you almost getting "lit on fire", that's you own fault. You went into a tent in the middle of a fire fight and lit your lanterns... if you were so concerned why didn't you unlit the lanterns? Sincerely, the "reasonable, sober, majority" This is a dead point now. Please lets move on..... The issue has been resolved by those involved in the creation of ww2 airsoft events ..
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Post by BURT "The Great" on Nov 21, 2011 17:01:31 GMT -5
At first I was not going to dignify Burt’s post with a response but Ray’s, personal attacks do deserve some kind of minimal response. 1) From the beginning everyone knew that the German camp would be a main focus of Partisan attacks both during the day and at night. Sorry I didnt get the memo 2) Oil Lanterns were on at the beginning of dusk just before the night fighting and through the battle. At no time did Ray or Josh express any concern over this until the end of the battle after their tent was hit. Its very hard and unsafe to find people running around the fields in the dark…... 3) At some point in the evening both Ray and Josh left to the store to purchase supplies and upon their return in the middle of battle you both went into your tent turned on your oil lamps and never came back out. It was rumored by multiple people that you both were drinking in your tent. We left looking for camp fire wood as we told you we ended up getting lost on our we back as we couldn’t really see anything. It all looks the same in the dark but when we returned the battle was on the apposite side of the camp and town area.4) The only tent that had lit oil lamps inside was your tent. No other tents had any oil lamps lit or unlit inside them. Correct as we thought that NO modern issued electric lamps or heaters are allowed at the event. How are we to fix the guns in the dark. Also we only had maybe 3 hours sleep the night before and a full days play. And as I recall you had around 7 lamps light in the camping area and a roaring fire not more then 10 feet from the tent…5) At some point several hours into the night fight, someone shot at your tent and extreme vulgarity and threats came out from one of you. The anger and loudness you expressed caused many more people to think you both were drinking. Well if people heard it why then did they continue to shoot at us in the tent…. Drinking that was all hearsay but we did see people drinking Jack at the fire during game play and offered a drink but we refused . Check your facts or better yet the source of those facts. 6) Ray, not since high school has any one stooped so low as to personal name calling. Even my 15 year old son could not believe that kind of immaturity. I have no comment to this. But maybe respect of others property should also be taughtWhile we welcomed your attendance at this event and really looked forward to your participation and contributions, I personally believe this whole matter could have been handled differently. Had either of you came to any of us before the battle or during the battle and expressed any concern over oil lamps being a danger in the cross fire, we would have gladly respected your concerns and removed them immediately. Instead you both chose to lock yourself inside your tent with everyone wondering why neither of you would participate in the battle and then angrily left the event after the battle. Had you communicated better with us before the fact instead of after, I believe this incident could have been avoided and you both could have had a much better experience. 1) From the beginning everyone knew that the German camp would be a main focus of Partisan attacks both during the day and at night. Sorry I didnt get the memo 2) Oil Lanterns were on at the beginning of dusk just before the night fighting and through the battle. At no time did Ray or Josh express any concern over this until the end of the battle after their tent was hit. Its very hard and unsafe to find people running around the fields in the dark…... 3) At some point in the evening both Ray and Josh left to the store to purchase supplies and upon their return in the middle of battle you both went into your tent turned on your oil lamps and never came back out. It was rumored by multiple people that you both were drinking in your tent. We left looking for camp fire wood as we told you we ended up getting lost on our we back as we couldn’t really see anything. It all looks the same in the dark but when we returned the battle was on the apposite side of the camp and town area.4) The only tent that had lit oil lamps inside was your tent. No other tents had any oil lamps lit or unlit inside them. Correct as we thought that NO modern issued electric lamps or heaters are allowed at the event. How are we to fix the guns in the dark. Also we only had maybe 3 hours sleep the night before and a full days play. And as I recall you had around 7 lamps light in the camping area and a roaring fire not more then 10 feet from the tent…5) At some point several hours into the night fight, someone shot at your tent and extreme vulgarity and threats came out from one of you. The anger and loudness you expressed caused many more people to think you both were drinking. Well if people heard it why then did they continue to shoot at us in the tent….As to being drunk I don’t think so The reason I left the sport 3 years ago was do to the fact I have a progressive liver disease (NASH) that at the time ripped me of my health and still. If you wanted drunks you should have looked to your own people that offered us Jack and who were drinking at the time of the “Fire fight”. Next time get your facts straight before accusation are spilled 6) Ray, not since high school has any one stooped so low as to personal name calling. Even my 15 year old son could not believe that kind of immaturity. I have no comment to this. But maybe respect of others property should also be taught
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Post by SfcMigs on Nov 21, 2011 18:20:48 GMT -5
First off, what everyone should know is this event would not have been possible with out Cryonics stepping up (in a big financial way) and making this event happen. He secured the field for the two days that EVERYONE seem to want and made it happen. HE, no one else, guaranteed GZA a minimum dollar amount (with a non refundable deposit) to make this event possible.
In addition, the props that he provided were nothing short of spectacular. For those who weren't there, here is the short list:
Period 4 man tent Authentic 1918 search light Fake (and very safe) barbed wire Land mines (that shot either baby power or a spray of water) Lost of signage and flags And tons of table props such as radios, lanterns, etc.
And with the addition of the 3rdFG's tents and props, I thought the German camp looked absolutely terrific.
As for the planning and flow of the event, I thought Brandon did a great job. (more in the AAR).
As for the back and forth that is going on here. I feel it is safe to say that there are always 3 sides to a story, mine, yours and the truth. If everyone can just try and move forward here and treat this as a learning experience and not a complete disaster as being projected, we can get to all the positive things that happened this weekend in the AAR.
With no disrespect to anyone and no disregard for anyone's personal property, bottom line here is no one got hurt, nothing was broken. Let's learn from this and move on. I feel everyone should agree that communication is the key and EVERYONE had the opportunity to voice any concerns or questions they may have had during the safety briefing. Personally, Steve H. and myself asked about the search light being shot at and the lanterns as well. We also asked questions about the fake barbed wire being cut. This was the time any issues with the tents being shot at or night fighting in general should have been addressed. So instead of pointing the fingers and going back and forth of who did this and who said what, we all were present and nothing was ever mentioned by anyone.
Move on Gentlemen, learn from it and we should all pledge to be more careful and considerate.
Happy Thanksgiving to all,
Migs
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Post by BURT "The Great" on Nov 21, 2011 18:21:23 GMT -5
I think this whole thing should be deleted and forgotten. PLEASE remove the entire event thread.
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Post by cryonics on Nov 21, 2011 18:24:36 GMT -5
I think this whole thing should be deleted and forgotten. PLEASE remove the entire event thread. I second the motion. Brandon please post an AAR thread ASAP so that we can focus on the positive.
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Post by Fusilier on Nov 21, 2011 20:00:08 GMT -5
Good job JP, way to step up!
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HornetWSO
Private 1st Class
"We may not have a history, but we have a rendezvous with destiny!"
Posts: 551
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Post by HornetWSO on Nov 21, 2011 20:04:46 GMT -5
I drove up from VA and will continue to make these trips! These are great events and it's always good to see familiar faces! Thanks to Rapture and JP, we had another great event!!
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Post by Schmozilla on Nov 21, 2011 20:08:29 GMT -5
Hey whoever shot the videos can you post the rest of the pictures and videos I wanna see em
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ussoccer26
Private
Collector Of Soviet Things!
Posts: 83
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Post by ussoccer26 on Nov 21, 2011 20:16:45 GMT -5
Hey whoever shot the videos can you post the rest of the pictures and videos I wanna see em Id love to see some pictures as well!
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Post by knights52 on Nov 21, 2011 20:22:33 GMT -5
We need a separate AAR thread
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Ersatzjack
Corporal
"That silly Franz... he thinks we are winning."
Posts: 1,093
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Post by Ersatzjack on Nov 21, 2011 20:23:18 GMT -5
I've always thought that only the inane and really juvenile posts should get deleted and that posts which are opinionated or even controversial but making a valid argument or expressing as in this case points intended on providing improvement for the next event should not be summarily executed. Saying that, people should have a reasoned discussion and the nature of electronic communication leads some to speak out of hand with no fear of reprisal or in other words, electronic communication can become pretty uncivil in a hurry. Maybe clean up the boards or delete the thread and start a new AAR for everyone. That way the movies, pics and stories can be read alone from any troubled posts and since we've all read them anyway - no sense to air the dirty laundry too long. Hey... if this thread is deleted I still get credit for my post, right? On the side of the moderators, they only want what they believe is good for WW2AA and might pull the trigger on posts prematurely but have good intentions. I guess I agree with everyone.
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Post by SfcMigs on Nov 21, 2011 21:20:22 GMT -5
That's just like you to be agreeable with everyone ;D
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