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Post by kaiu on Feb 19, 2012 16:27:06 GMT -5
No one posted this, so I thought I might as well...
I am just starting out in WW2 stuff, so I don't have everything yet
BUT, I did get the G&G Kar98k and this is what I posted in ASC.... My ultimate goal is two loadouts, one for Chinese KMT/NRA, the other is German, both used the Kar98k, so it was perfect mix for me.G&G G980 (Kar98k) - Photo Review Random Specs: Weight: 7.4 lbs Weight of Mag: 1.6 lbs Dimensions of the BB loading part of the mag: 5 cm x 4 cm x 2 cm (IT SHOULD FIT in Kar98k pouches, fits in my Pioneer pouches that hold the Kar98k clips)
Part Pricing/Sourcing: G&G Kar98k cocking hammer Full Steel: $30.35 USD (EMS Shipping to Toronto: $14.28 USD) www.bbdragon.com.tw/product_info.php/products_id/3143
BB loading part of the mag: $20 USD (EMS Shipping for 5 to Toronto: $18.96 USD) Direct from G&G
8 Gram CO2 Cartridges: Various Prices (Total Including UPS Express Shipping from BC to Toronto: $59 USD) <- I bought 100 units. stores.ebay.ca/co2n20suppliesico Front Sight RegionIt came slightly damaged and scratched because the package was unfortunately dinged pretty bad at the corner where this was located. Essentially the fake cleaning rod is slightly bent outwards. According to the disassembly in the manual, it can be taken out, so I will try straightening it later.
Some wobble with rear sight, and safety switch works, but also some wobble.Trades & Wood QualityThe trades, you guys can decide for yourself, however, the wood feels REALLY nice. Unfortunately, like another review, the wood DOES scratch pretty easy... Not sure if anyone who works with wood has any suggestions?
Please don't get this expecting real steel quality.Current IssueThe cocking hammer is ALREADY wearing down after less than 50 shots, and it is NOT steel.THANKFULLY there is a steel replacement already available, and it is on it's way.
The following two pictures show the wear. Magazine IssueObviously the real one uses clips, but then this is airsoft. Unfortunately, there seems to be some quality control issues. My second magazine currently has a really big problem in regards to the CO2 cartridge NOT coming out.
Another review shows the same problem, and his solution was to drill a hole in the cartridge, and use a screw to pull it out...
There are FPS issues that make it un-gameable until further notice... Will try other cartridges, and it may be some other issue with the export versions?
On the other note, BB loader section of the mag can easily be changed with a push of a button... They will definitely fit a Kar98k pouch.I have just been made aware of a possible mod for the mags to lower the FPS, which I will try later to see haha...Potential ModificationsThese are a couple examples of what I'll probably do to attempt for FPS reduction...
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Post by aj czarkowski on Feb 19, 2012 23:28:25 GMT -5
Nice! if it wasn't so expensive i'd definitly get one
I've heard about the FPS issue, one mag is supposed to shoot 500 and the other 350. Maybe they gave you two 500s?
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Post by kaiu on Feb 20, 2012 15:46:14 GMT -5
All that thing does is release the gas... Filing it shorter just adjusts how long the air is being released. There are OTHER ways to do this too. I filed it on my bad magazine, and it works. You can also file the hammer itself... And another way I guess is changing the spring on the hammer to a stiffer spring I guess?, which will dictate how fast it return back to it's position I guess... I dunno which would be the best.... Because I will try the spring, but I'm not sure if a stiffer spring will mean more wear on other parts, although if they have future kits that are 100% steel it wouldn't be as big a concern? lol My hammer is almost dead!!!!!!!!!!! T.T Waiting for my steel replacement...
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mccallion
Private 1st Class
Official Road Sign Reader (retired)
Posts: 770
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Post by mccallion on Feb 20, 2012 18:36:02 GMT -5
how does it shoot?
McCallion
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Post by drunkalbertan on Feb 27, 2012 21:22:42 GMT -5
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Post by jimmiroquai on May 24, 2012 4:40:40 GMT -5
Well i just got mine on hand. And here's the good news: Mine came with a steel hammer and a steel firing pin. I guess G&G really listens to their customers. Here are some other things that weren't mentioned in the above review: Front sight is adjustable for windage Stock band retaining spring is steel (not plastic like in the dboys) Hop up has a set screw. Loosen it first before adjusting or you risk breaking the hop gears. Once clicked into your desired hop, you can leave as is or tighten the set screw to make sure it won't move again. Trigger is a 90 deg system, but trigger pull is a little hard...maybe with better lube it'l be smoother Unfortunately, i don't have any 8g CO2 cartridges on hand so i have yet to test fire it. But wow, is it beautiful...and solidly built.
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on May 24, 2012 6:33:34 GMT -5
Well i just got mine on hand. And here's the good news: Mine came with a steel hammer and a steel firing pin. I guess G&G really listens to their customers. Here are some other things that weren't mentioned in the above review: Front sight is adjustable for windage Stock band retaining spring is steel (not plastic like in the dboys) Hop up has a set screw. Loosen it first before adjusting or you risk breaking the hop gears. Once clicked into your desired hop, you can leave as is or tighten the set screw to make sure it won't move again. Trigger is a 90 deg system, but trigger pull is a little hard...maybe with better lube it'l be smoother Unfortunately, i don't have any 8g CO2 cartridges on hand so i have yet to test fire it. But wow, is it beautiful...and solidly built. So you like the wood and metal finish? Good to hear something nice about it for a change.
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Post by jimmiroquai on May 24, 2012 8:19:45 GMT -5
The metal finish is the usual airsoft flat black and the wood finish is clean, if a bit bland. But stuff like that doesn't bother custom builders like us, does it, sgt.tom. I'd be sad if there wasn't anything left to modify. I plan to give it a more, "been through Kharkov to Berlin" look...
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Sgt_Tom
Technical Sgt.
Combat!
Posts: 3,580
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Post by Sgt_Tom on May 24, 2012 12:02:40 GMT -5
Yea its not a deal breaker but its nice for the guys who aren't into redoing everything ;D.
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Post by Rekkon on May 24, 2012 12:35:12 GMT -5
Hop up has a set screw. Loosen it first before adjusting or you risk breaking the hop gears. Once clicked into your desired hop, you can leave as is or tighten the set screw to make sure it won't move again. Where is this set screw?
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Post by jimmiroquai on May 24, 2012 17:45:18 GMT -5
The set screw is on the trigger guard. You'll need an allen wrench to adjust it. Will post a full review w more details and pics soon.
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Post by iamthedevil on Jun 3, 2012 20:03:38 GMT -5
well i got this gun a few days ago, it came with a steel hammer and two high fps mags which might be standard for US retailers. anyways superb rifle. had problems with adjusting hop-up but it was as simple as removing the pin that make it click when you turn the dial. now the mags...... fine at first, the bottom plat became loose and let it leak. to co2 cartridge will get stuck but some silicon oil in there and shake it out. now after a skirmish today neither mag works consistently..? when it did shoot properly it was great during the game. im going to buy another mag and see if its the mags that are working properly.
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Post by Steel on Sept 1, 2012 17:00:53 GMT -5
When i first got my k98 and held it for the first time i was kind of disappointed, it just didn't have that nice feel like my real k98. But i said to myself well this is airsoft, of course it's not going to be like the real thing. First thing i noticed right out of the box was that my front site was all scratched up, similar to kaiu's because of packaging damage. But that was no big deal; gives it some character. Other than that, the gun itself looks great and it is sturdy. When i went to go shoot it, i had problems with the hop up adjustment knob not moving even when i had the set screw very loose. So to solve my problem i simply turned the nub that catches the adjustment gear upside down and i haven't had a problem since. When the gun works right, it shoots very well i had no problem hitting a man size target at 50yds and i could get my .3g bbs to go roughly 80yds max. Also i thought i should mention that the inner barrel in the gun is not centered so i have my front site post drifted the whole way over to the right. i sure i can fix that somehow, but that is the least of my problems now. I didn't even get through the 500 rounds G&G gives you and these 3 parts wore down so bad that i can't even shoot the gun anymore. The sear, firing pin, and Hammer all got deformed and now it slam fires when i reload. ( i think that's the correct terminology ) so now my gun is out of action until i machine some new parts for it. I'll mention this also, i did the magnet test on the 3 parts and the sear is some kind of alloy ,but the firing pin and hammer are steel. I also want to point out that their is a gap between the hammer and guide rail, i think that not having the hammer making full contact with the firing pin wore down the metal. IS ANYONE ELSE'S GUN LIKE THIS? the gap you see is about 1/8 inch Maybe i just go a lemon, hopefully once i machine new parts it will fix the issues. This gun has been nothing but a major disappointment to me. Mostly because of how cheaply it was made. What G&G should have done instead of offering "Free Accessories" was take that money and put it towards better quality metal.
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stuka
Sergeant
The one and only
Posts: 1,205
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Post by stuka on Sept 1, 2012 18:44:39 GMT -5
if thats standard^ then that is depressing =(
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Post by Forever_Kaos on Sept 1, 2012 19:37:32 GMT -5
Perhaps yours is the earlier "version 1" with pot metal sears?
I have gone through 500+ rounds of mine, and it's holding up 100% fine, not a single sign of wear past the paint. No gap on mine either, perhaps tighten down the screws a bit?
Do believe you got a pretty odd lemon, or the "version 1" model.
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Post by bacon on Sept 17, 2012 11:48:26 GMT -5
I got some problems with mine aswell. Mine fires way way way to weak. It fires around 250-300 fps when on redwolf it said 410-440 (from where i purchased it). I have been waiting for a high powered magazine (incase i got the low ones) from landwarriorairsoft but they never have it in stock.. Huge dissapointment since i was looking for a long range sniper not some cqb rifle. Here is a youtube clip i made of some issues with it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDDnAkcz1Yw' If anyone got any ideas feel free to tell me!
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Post by labrador on Sept 17, 2012 18:24:05 GMT -5
Exactly the same experience here. We had a local smith work on ours. Now shoots at 510-550 but still get the occasional malfunction. Still needs a few tweaks to make it more reliable.
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Post by bacon on Sept 18, 2012 10:08:14 GMT -5
How did you solve it?
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Post by labrador on Sept 18, 2012 16:35:08 GMT -5
not quite sure what he did. i'll ask him on the weekend. i know he modified a part within the bolt.
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Post by bacon on Sept 19, 2012 9:35:55 GMT -5
Much appreciated! I really want mine to fire harder.
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Post by Rekkon on Dec 10, 2012 13:06:21 GMT -5
I recently purchased two of the new green gas magazines for this weapon, and figured I would post the results of my chrono test for them. I ran three "clips" of .20g BBs through one magazine on a single gas charge and recorded the crono reading for each shot. I had a fourth clip loaded, but by then the velocity had dropped enough that there was not much point. My chorno went wonky on the second mag. Battery might be low. If I can get it working I might be unlazy enough to test the second mag and post the results. I do not know what, if anything, has changed internally, but the green gas mags look like G&G just sealed the chamber for the CO2 cartridge and stuck in a green gas fill. Magazine 1 1. 429.9 2. 429.9 3. 424.7 4. 421.6 5. 422.6 6. 421.6 7. 417.6 8. 419.6 9. 421.6 10. 440.8 11. 345.6 * 12. 411.7 13. 398.5 14. 398.5 15. 402.2 16. 353.3 17. 342.2 18. - * 19. 341.6 20. 370.6 21. 351.2 22. 312.2 23. 291.9 24. 280.2 25. 241.1 26. 264.9 27. 237.8 *I was not paying attention and racked in two rounds for one shot, so the FPS is abnormally low, and we are one data point short. Averages: First clip: 423.2 Second clip: 386.6 (392.5 without double feed) Third clip: 299.1 As expected, the green gas mags have better consistency than the CO2 ones. The first clip was very good with a standard deviation of only 4.25 FPS while the second was 35.57 FPS (34.00 without the double feed). You can see from the data that the second clip started ok but dropped off near the end. Presumably all the liquid propane had gassified by that point so the pressure drop off with each shot became more pronounced. By the third clip, the FPS went from barely adequate to anemic (standard deviation 48.09 FPS). Overall verdict: Disappointing. For me to consider it useful in the field, my rifles need good range, and green gas magazines do not appear to provide sufficient FPS for that task (too cold for outdoor shooting tests). And the FPS is kind of the worst of both worlds. It is not high enough for those wanting sniper velocities while still remaining well above the 400 mark for those that have to play under such a restriction. Maybe I can find some red gas and try that. Also, depending on the length of the nozzle on your green gas can, you might have difficultly filling the magazine. The tab on the bottom protrudes far enough to hit the can.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 10, 2012 19:20:19 GMT -5
This is all of course disappointing. Gas offerings seem to be our best bet with regard to commercial offerings of assorted ww2 bolt action rifles. Kar 98, springfield, enfield and mosin nagant but if the consistency, durability and reliability is not there they will fail to accomodate our need for skirmishable main battle rifles, theyll fail in the marketplace and manufacturers will misinterpret this as there not being demand for ww2 rifles. Yikes! I hope the other offerings, (S&T, Zeta labs, Iron Airsoft etc.) are better. Thanks one and all for the candid heads up. I still dont understand why the marriage of good vsr type springers and ww2 rifle bodies doesnt occure to the manufacturers although perhaps they think we would be put off by the bottom loading magazines? It is a puzzlement?
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Post by jimmiroquai on Dec 11, 2012 6:27:08 GMT -5
CO2 in theory should be more consistent than green gas. Mine had all kinds of problems, but once everything was addressed, mine out performs the gold standard Tanaka kar98.
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Post by Rekkon on Dec 11, 2012 12:13:51 GMT -5
Define "out performs." Here I basically only performed a magazine endurance test looking at muzzle velocity consistency. For an in-magazine application like the G&G Mauser or GBB pistols, the CO2 is unregulated, so you get X pressure in the magazine and it drops off with every shot. Propane/green gas is used because it can be liquified. The liquid gassifies as the pressure drops, keeping the output pressure more consistent longer. Thus I would expect green gas to provide a more consistent muzzle velocity for more shots than CO2. CO2 is also more suspetible to cool-down, though whether that effect would be significant in this case I do not know. Of course the easiest way to determine this would be to go back and run the same test with my CO2 mags. *rolls up sleeves* Science!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 11, 2012 15:03:40 GMT -5
Awesome sources of information you guys. Keep the science alive and keep the reports coming.
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Post by Forever_Kaos on Dec 12, 2012 12:20:58 GMT -5
And this is why I am very happy to have modded mine to external air Even if the hose is a slight PITA at times, it will always be far more consistent. Thanks for the info.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 12, 2012 23:59:16 GMT -5
CO2 cool down is definitely noticeable with semi auto weapons but unless used for a prolonged fire fight I suspect with the slow rate of fire it shouldnt be too noticeable at least through a couple mag reloads into the same cartridged magazine.
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Post by Rekkon on Dec 15, 2012 16:38:50 GMT -5
Science has been conducted!
I sat down with the intent of running three clips (27) rounds through each of the mags that I own (two CO2 and two green gas). However, I ended up running additional clips through some magazines until they either ceased to fire or the FPS dropped very low.
These tests were conducted back to back in a 70 degree room using a Madbull chrono. There was a 2-4 second delay between shots as I recorded the chrono reading and racked in another round. There was a longer delay when I had to change clips, and an even longer one when I had to stop and reload all of the clips since I only have four. All BBs were .20g KSC perfects. I do not know where my hop up is set, but I left it constant for the entire trial.
Green Gas Magazine 1 (27 shots, 3 clips) 441.9 443 418.6 435.3 360.6 419.6 414.6 420.6 418.6 386.2 389.6 373 369 366.7 345.6 270.6 317.3 284.7 251.1 288.5 281.5 296.3 264.9 257.4 194.1 194.6 202
Green Gas Magazine 2 (21 shots, 3 clips) 484.8 441.9 440.8 453.4 414.6 399.4 388.7 356.9 335* 377.8 287.1 264.1 254.4 216.3 189.7 178.3 161.8 161.8 98.7 49.6 Did not fire
CO2 Magazine 1 (45 shots, 5 clips) 583.7 552.3 554.1 559.4 559.4 564.9 552.3 563 552.3 538.7 548.9 537 533.8 525.7 513.4 524.1 494.4 513.4 513.4 448.7 478.2 479.5 475.6 463 471.7 459.3 466.7 510.4 486.2 466.7 461.7 451 451.6** 424.7 411.7 394 359.9 330.6 273.6 302.5 275.7 267.7 233 233 126
CO2 Magazine 2 (54 shots, 6 clips) 581.8 540.4 528.9 533.8 538.7 538.7 537 538.7 528.9 538.7 533.8 517.9 452.2 508.9 498.7 484.8 497.3 497.6 488.9 479.5 478.2 471.7 470.5 471.7 404 459.3 448.7 454.5 458.1 459.3 451 452.2 449.8 433.1 421.6 416.6 413.6 393.1 381.9 368.2 365.1 341.6 326.2 315.6 288.5 287.5 287.5 260.5 233.7 208.5 188.1 188.1 140.3 122.1
*This run includes a dry fire. I was not paying attention and racked/fired again at the end of a magazine. **This run includes a shot that did not seem to register on my chrono. I might have just missed the number changing, but I marked it as an anomaly.
I will do more analysis later, but you can see that the CO2 magazines lasted a LOT longer, up to twice as long as their green gas counterparts. If you need sniper velocities, the CO2 mags provide that for more shots simply by starting at a higher pressure. I am guessing the CO2 cartridges provide a larger mass of gas than what gets filled from a green gas can, so even if green gas might theoretically be more consistent over a particular range due to liquid vaporization, that effect appears to be swamped by the sheer mass and pressure provided by CO2.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 15, 2012 18:53:35 GMT -5
that is an outstanding report. the co2 definitely provides better velocity and does so with less rapid drop off in performance. here's where the science gets goofy and counter intuitive. try running the exact same test but with heavier bbs. normally one would expect the fps to drop off. indeed that may be the case. my experience with gas guns however (especially with long barrels) is that the fps goes up (sometimes dangerously so since the jouelles exceed reasonable parameters for most players.) if you can run your test with progressively heavier sniper weight bbs. the results may shock you. (or not) this is where the science with gas guns gets interesting.
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Post by jimmiroquai on Dec 16, 2012 21:28:56 GMT -5
My gng out performs my tanaka in terms of both fps and shot consistency. A more detailed accout is in my practical review of the springer conversion vs tanaka vs gng kar98. CO2 has always been more consistent and less susceptible to cool down than green gas. even if unregulated. As dictated by physics, from personal experience, ablnd as shown by your experiment.
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