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Post by caram on Apr 8, 2012 13:20:16 GMT -5
I am looking to buy a zeta lab mosin nagant but I am new to ww2 replicas. I haven't heard of this brand either. So I need to know weither it is worth it. I have found one for $370 usd from reddragonairsoft.com. Majority of the reviews I have seen says it is a solid gun
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Post by tommygunner9 on Apr 8, 2012 13:36:16 GMT -5
Can you please post a link? I can never seem to open reddragonairsoft :/
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Post by caram on Apr 8, 2012 14:09:33 GMT -5
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Post by tommygunner9 on Apr 8, 2012 14:29:24 GMT -5
Ok, here, I'll help you out. First of all, the Zeta-Lab one that you just put is out of stock. And it is a spring rifle. If you want a good bolt-action rifle, you should get a gas powered one. Zeta-Lab is alright, it's not the best and it's not the worse. That particular link you sent me is the mosin-nagant CARBINE. Not the original, long one. Zeta-Lab has a Nagant that is the sniper version (gas), the standard version (spring) and the carbine version (both spring and gas). Now, there are 2 more brands that sell Nagants. PPS, and Accuracy Fire. They are both gas. Accuracy Fire is the cheapest one, (168 + 62 for shipping) but it is abs plastic and full metal and comes with a bayonet. No one has gotten it yet, so we don't know the overall quality of it. The other brand just came out. It is 269.99 w/ free shipping. Now, here are the links to all of them. ZETA-LAB: Carbine (gas, skirmish version): www.airsoftpanda.com/product_info.php/cPath/59_292/products_id/2735Carbine (gas, NOT the skirmish version): www.airsoftpanda.com/product_info.php/cPath/59_292/products_id/2330Sniper: (gas, skirmish version): www.airsoftpanda.com/product_info.php/cPath/59_292/products_id/2717The regular versions are out of stock for both the sniper Nagant and the standard Nagant. I have no idea what the difference is between the regular versions and the skirmish versions. All of these above rifles are real wood and full steel. Now here is Accuracy Fire: www.airsoftpanda.com/product_info.php/cPath/59_368/products_id/2669I think Accuracy Fire is the same as Zeta-Lab, if I'm not mistakened. This is an abs plastic version, but with full steel and gas (and bayonet.) Here is the PPS one (it has no bayonet, it has abs plastic construction, and full steel): www.airsoftatlanta.com/Mosin_Nagant_Airsoft_Sniper_Rifle_PPS_p/67009.htmhope this helped!
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Post by caram on Apr 8, 2012 14:45:08 GMT -5
Definitely cleared some stuff up for me. Thank you.
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Post by tommygunner9 on Apr 8, 2012 15:03:03 GMT -5
No problem bro!
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Post by caram on Apr 8, 2012 15:19:45 GMT -5
Did some looking at the links. The skirmish one is More expensive however more power. The non-skirmish is cheaper but has less power and less steel
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Post by tommygunner9 on Apr 8, 2012 15:28:04 GMT -5
You have to understand that FPS is give and take. I assure you that they are about the same. Just because it says 400, doesn't mean it is always going to be either 400 or greater. Don't get me wrong, the FPS is around that ballpark, but those companies know that customers like seeing a high FPS. It makes their product more appealing.
And both the skirmish version AND the regular one are full steel. The only difference between the regular version and the skirmish version (after reading both pages) is that the skirmish version has cosmetic features (like the wood being hand-weathered) and some kind of tuning. But they are both wood and full steel. Also, keep in mind that the Accuracy Fire and PPS Nagants are the standard, long ones, not the carbines.
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Post by jimmiroquai on Apr 8, 2012 19:25:03 GMT -5
Gas isn't necessarily better than spring. OT, i know, but just saying.
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Post by tommygunner9 on Apr 8, 2012 20:46:13 GMT -5
That's true. I just prefer gas over spring because in a spring, the parts tend to be flimsier than gas. Also, you run the risk of the spring wearing down over time. The FPS decreases after awhile. With gas, these problems aren't really presented.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Apr 9, 2012 14:35:15 GMT -5
That's true. I just prefer gas over spring because in a spring, the parts tend to be flimsier than gas. Also, you run the risk of the spring wearing down over time. The FPS decreases after awhile. With gas, these problems aren't really presented. Exact reason why I like gas guns more than spring. The sears broke on my kar98 (Bar10) only 2 weeks after I made it ;D I fired less than 200 shots. And like you said the spring wears and your weapon becomes very weak. Accuracy Fire just clones Zeta Labs weapons like CYMA and Cybergun do for Tokyo Marui. For some reason they decided only to clone the M1891/30 and not the M44. BUT the company PPS is very new and this is their first product I know of. It's another clone of the Zeta Labs but this one is actually a USA company. Sadly there isn't a single review on any of any of the three Mosin Nagants on the forums so we don't know what the hell to expect
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Post by tommygunner9 on Apr 9, 2012 14:37:06 GMT -5
I'm waiting eagerly for one!
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Post by jimmiroquai on Apr 9, 2012 17:10:57 GMT -5
That's true. I just prefer gas over spring because in a spring, the parts tend to be flimsier than gas. Also, you run the risk of the spring wearing down over time. The FPS decreases after awhile. With gas, these problems aren't really presented. Spring rifles (upgraded) will almost always out perform gas rifles because the former will almost always shoot more consistently than the latter. Spring rifles parts (upgraded) are not flimsy. They are much simpler and require much less maintenance than gas. But i agree stock bar 10 sears are cr@pp. But back to topic: re the zeta lab mosin nagant: Spring version is good. Gas version is bad. This is because the gas goes into the bolt. This will give you wildly varying fps between shots. And you'll have to reload gas every 3-5 shots. If the gas were in the magazine like the tanakas and kjw, then it would be ok. So, if the gas is in the bolt: don't bother.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 9, 2012 17:57:34 GMT -5
That's true. I just prefer gas over spring because in a spring, the parts tend to be flimsier than gas. Also, you run the risk of the spring wearing down over time. The FPS decreases after awhile. With gas, these problems aren't really presented. Exact reason why I like gas guns more than spring. The sears broke on my kar98 (Bar10) only 2 weeks after I made it ;D I fired less than 200 shots. And like you said the spring wears and your weapon becomes very weak. Yes gas guns are just as problematic if not more. At least a broken sear is an extremely simple fix. Your problem is you are buying cheap spring guns combined with just bad luck. Honestly I've never had a BAR-10 sear actually break on me yet. I've had them start to slip and slam fire but no actual cracks. Spring guns are my favorite kind of airsoft gun as they are so simple. Simple=easy to fix ;D.
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Post by tommygunner9 on Apr 9, 2012 22:34:36 GMT -5
That's true. I just prefer gas over spring because in a spring, the parts tend to be flimsier than gas. Also, you run the risk of the spring wearing down over time. The FPS decreases after awhile. With gas, these problems aren't really presented. Spring rifles (upgraded) will almost always out perform gas rifles because the former will almost always shoot more consistently than the latter. Spring rifles parts (upgraded) are not flimsy. They are much simpler and require much less maintenance than gas. But i agree stock bar 10 sears are cr@pp. But back to topic: re the zeta lab mosin nagant: Spring version is good. Gas version is bad. This is because the gas goes into the bolt. This will give you wildly varying fps between shots. And you'll have to reload gas every 3-5 shots. If the gas were in the magazine like the tanakas and kjw, then it would be ok. So, if the gas is in the bolt: don't bother. Here is the deal. Most people don't know (including me) how to upgrade a spring gun (or any gun for that matter). So if we would just keep the stock gun the way it is, the spring will wear down over time. You said that if it is UPGRADED it will outperform and have less problems than a gas rifle. But since most do not know how to upgrade it, they will always turn to a gas rifle as their choice for having the stock rifle go to s**t. I honestly don't believe a regular stock rifle without upgrades can outperform a gas rifle. Maybe an upgraded one will. I don't know, I never owned either type. Just gas is more appealing to me for the reasons above. Not to mention better FPS than a stock spring rifle.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 9, 2012 23:22:51 GMT -5
Gas is influenced by so many factors such as the type of gas, temperature barrel length and the completness of the fill. Leaks and inefficient seals as with any airsoft gun are other considerations. With that said a quality gas gun can be quite nice. I like the louder report and the slick and realistic action of a gas bolt action rifle where you are not working a spring. With all that said, gas guns are a pain in the ass.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 10, 2012 9:02:57 GMT -5
Spring rifles (upgraded) will almost always out perform gas rifles because the former will almost always shoot more consistently than the latter. Spring rifles parts (upgraded) are not flimsy. They are much simpler and require much less maintenance than gas. But i agree stock bar 10 sears are cr@pp. But back to topic: re the zeta lab mosin nagant: Spring version is good. Gas version is bad. This is because the gas goes into the bolt. This will give you wildly varying fps between shots. And you'll have to reload gas every 3-5 shots. If the gas were in the magazine like the tanakas and kjw, then it would be ok. So, if the gas is in the bolt: don't bother. Here is the deal. Most people don't know (including me) how to upgrade a spring gun (or any gun for that matter). So if we would just keep the stock gun the way it is, the spring will wear down over time. You said that if it is UPGRADED it will outperform and have less problems than a gas rifle. But since most do not know how to upgrade it, they will always turn to a gas rifle as their choice for having the stock rifle go to s**t. I honestly don't believe a regular stock rifle without upgrades can outperform a gas rifle. Maybe an upgraded one will. I don't know, I never owned either type. Just gas is more appealing to me for the reasons above. Not to mention better FPS than a stock spring rifle. Anyone can upgrade a spring gun it is extremely simple. Honestly upgrading the spring or sear on a BAR-10 is so simple my little brother could probably figure it out. Like I said the problem is your buying junky spring guns. Get a good one and you'll have no problems. Try buying a junky gas rifle and see how that goes for ya. Look at the G&G K98. The sear wears off quickly, the FPS is all over the place. That is gas and its expensive. Gas guns aren't magic they get worn out just like spring and AEGs. The difference is when a spring gun breaks its easy to fix unlike gas guns or AEGs. Buy a quality weapon and you won't have to worry about fixing it.
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Post by jimmiroquai on Apr 10, 2012 9:48:42 GMT -5
I wouldn't have started the whole spring vs. gas thing but when you were giving advice you came off as sounding like an expert and so i just thought i'd share my dissenting expert opinion as well (since i've had extensive experience with both kinds of rifles). All things the same, out of the box, same crappy china clone/ same OK china clone/ same high end japanese original, when it comes to shot to shot consistency, spring will out perform gas.
That being said, the last thing ill say on the main topic is this: If the gas is loaded/stored in the bolt (like the gas mosin nagants), fps variance will be all over the place and fps will be inconsistent. You will also have to reload gas more frequently because there is only a small expansion chamber. If however, the gas is loaded into the mags (Tanaka/G&G/accuracyfire Kar98ks), you will get better consistency than the gas-in-bolt option. But the only way to make a gas rifle to approach the consistency of a spring rifle, the gas needs to be properly regulated (external rig).
But still, i'd buy these cheap gas mosins. Why? Because they're cheap. Because they're Mosin Nagants
I've held and fired the zeta carbine, and it performs OK out of the box. contrary to popular belief, it IS skirmishable. Though, of course, my Bar10 in a nagant stock will outperform it.
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Post by tommygunner9 on Apr 10, 2012 12:04:27 GMT -5
Haha, I did not mean that I was an expert. I have never owned a gas rifle or a spring rifle. But yes, what you said is true about the gas bolt. If I were to buy a spring Mosin-Nagant, how would I go about upgrading it? I have no idea. The Bar 10 is a completely different rifle and inserting it's internals into a Mosin would probably be complicated for me. SO how would I go about upgrading a spring Nagant?
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 10, 2012 14:11:09 GMT -5
From what I hear about the Zeta Labs spring mosin nagants they won't need any durability upgrades as the sears and such are made of steel. So if you want better performance your going to be looking at power upgrades and accuracy upgrades. For accuracy new hop up rubber or a tight bore barrel would be something to look into. For power a stronger spring or getting better air seal. You first have to find out what kind of spring it takes. You also need to find out the barrel type and hop up type.
Maybe someone who owns a Zeta Labs Mosin could help you out with that.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Apr 10, 2012 14:13:04 GMT -5
I'm the exact opposite, I've had tons of experience with gas and spring guns and don't know too much about AEGs ;D The JG Bar10 is not crappy, you said yourself that you've never had a broken sear on yours. I have the absolute worst luck with airsoft guns, I have never in my life had one where it actually worked as it should out of box. I've never heard of the JG Bar10's sears braking yet it still cracked on mine ;D After it broke, I upgraded it with a better sear and it literally took less than a minute. I'm not the same person who said they didn't know how to upgrade them... I built my own I should know how to do that
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 10, 2012 14:32:12 GMT -5
Ok getting you two mixed up lol.
Anyways the BAR-10 is decent. In the end though its a Chinese clone and you most likely will run into problems with it. I've had trouble with the BAR-10 sears. Basically the sears stop catching the piston rendering the gun not being able to fire. I've heard it is probably just a lemon though. From what I have heard they usually wear down at some point either way. Still if you get a good upgraded sear it solves that problem.
I've never had a sear break on the ones I owned but I've never used them for that long either. A good sear set costs about $40 though and it is worth it.
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Post by tommygunner9 on Apr 10, 2012 16:22:09 GMT -5
I don't even know what a sear is or where it can be found lol. Not like it matters, every Zeta-Lab Mosin that is spring is out of stock everywhere.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 10, 2012 17:09:54 GMT -5
Lets run ya through it. ;D The sear is located inside the trigger box. When you press down the trigger the sear collapses. The sear is latched onto the piston which holds the spring back. When the sear collapses it lets go of the piston. Now that the sear is not holding the piston in place the spring shoots forward pushes air into the barrel and pushes the BB out. Simple as that. i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh11/Fighten3rd/1314562544.jpgSo anyways the sear needs to be strong since it is holding a cocked spring back. The spring and piston are obviously located in the bolt. You should read up on airsoft guns and how they work. You'll really benefit from it in the end.
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Post by jimmiroquai on Apr 10, 2012 18:10:39 GMT -5
The later versions of the spring zeta carbine as well as the longer versions use AEG springs. They also use TM style vsr10/pistol hop rubbers. The hop chamber is designed after TM which is very good. The only problem with the spring zeta is that it is difficult to rack the bolt even with the stock spring, mainly because of the position of the bolt handle (which is located much more forward than in the bar10). But i guess with a little practice (and bigger biceps) it could get easier.
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Post by tommygunner9 on Apr 10, 2012 18:54:11 GMT -5
Thank you sgttom! That was very helpful! Now that OI saw it, it doesn't look to hard haha ;D
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Apr 10, 2012 19:01:08 GMT -5
The later versions of the spring zeta carbine as well as the longer versions use AEG springs. They also use TM style vsr10/pistol hop rubbers. The hop chamber is designed after TM which is very good. The only problem with the spring zeta is that it is difficult to rack the bolt even with the stock spring, mainly because of the position of the bolt handle (which is located much more forward than in the bar10). But i guess with a little practice (and bigger biceps) it could get easier. Sounds like it is fully upgradeable then. tommygunner9, Glad I could help. Your best bet on getting a Zeta Mosin may be getting it used. I've seen a few in the for sale section on here.
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Post by tommygunner9 on Apr 11, 2012 5:30:05 GMT -5
Yeah I saw them. Unfortunately though, they have a bent bolt for some reason, and they aren't the sniper version.
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Post by caram on Apr 11, 2012 12:48:20 GMT -5
Is the spring no longer made or no longer sold at retail stores?
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Post by aj czarkowski on Apr 11, 2012 13:19:08 GMT -5
No, the gas version is still in production though
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