shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 22, 2013 16:28:00 GMT -5
To encourage Chinese companies, would you buy a Marushin Garand clone? If it's Chinese made, at least you wouldn't lose as much money if it breaks.
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Post by Forever_Kaos on Mar 23, 2013 3:01:09 GMT -5
Why? When the ICS and G&G has a very nice AEG Garand out?
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Post by wilhelmmoa on Mar 23, 2013 9:34:01 GMT -5
I think he is talking about a garand under $200 , sure the ICS and G&G have great garand but we need CHEAP guns too.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 23, 2013 11:41:22 GMT -5
I think he is talking about a garand under $200 , sure the ICS and G&G have great garand but we need CHEAP guns too. Exactly. ICS and G&G aren't going to sell enough Garands to make it the predominant weapon on the American side when they are priced at $400+. We need a cheap Garand that will encourage people away from Thompsons, and what's the point of a Garand that doesn't eject clips? I'm thinking dirt cheap biodegradeable clips... ;D
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 23, 2013 12:43:07 GMT -5
Clueless!!!!! Ejecting clips....it's already available! Of course it isn't reliable and it too is expensive. I agree for the Garand to become prevalent it needs to be under $200.00 but the simpke economics aren't there and aren't likely to be. The demand for long, heavy, low capacity airsoft rifles is very very small. I am thilled that we finally have a reasonably authentic, great shooting M1 garand under $500.00 and another soon to be released. IF they sell reasonably well and IF they sell at a significant price long enough to pay off the R&D and set up costs then MAYBE a less expensive version (plastic stock perhaps) or reverse engineered RIPOFF will come along at a lower price....And we wonder why these companies don't want to cater to our market niche?
I am blown away by the value the ICS represents at $400.00 and frankly amazed they were able to do it for that. I suspect the GnG will be a little more expensive but somewhat nicer.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 23, 2013 13:17:14 GMT -5
Nope I definitely wouldn't want a cheaper version of an already poorly performing rifle.
Cloning is really a bad thing as its essentially stealing, though I will admit to buying cloned weapons.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 23, 2013 13:29:20 GMT -5
Remember though, a cheap crappy Garand is better than no Garand at all, and it will distract people from all those M4's and AKs.
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Post by brownien on Mar 23, 2013 13:54:30 GMT -5
Not really, anyone who would be interested in AK's and M4's are already in a different division of airsoft, referred to as "Modern". We have had 2ndBat aeg Garands available in smaller numbers for some time now, and with the release of both ICS and G&G aeg Garands, our hobby is only going up! The point of WW2 Airsoft combat weapons is to have a gun that is accurate in appearence and RELIABLE in SKIRMISH! You can pay $500-700 for a Marushin M1 and go through all the trouble to TRY to get it working properly, but you are still going to end up with a gun that WILL fail on you in the field. Any chinese company that decides to clone the Marushin M1 WILL NOT spend any time trying to fix ANY of the current problems. It will end up like the original Marushin flop, but cheaper! I get that people like the realism of GBB or any Gas rifle for that matter, but I despise them for their lack of consistant FPS (compared to AEG/Spring) and minimal propellant storage space; you only get a few reliable shots before you need to reload ammo AND gas. I believe that any AEG/Springer can shoot circle around its Gas counterpart.
Just my $0.02. And just to clarify, the Marushin and other gas rifles are nice to have and fun to shoot for the ease of manipulation for bolt actions and realism in operation, but they are at best backyard shooters and wall hangers. Gas pistols are completely different in my opinion though, I.e. no other power source due to size, and their use as mostly backups when a barrel jam or dead battery occur.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 23, 2013 15:09:34 GMT -5
NO! Even if it was cheaper, it's still going to brake so why bother? I already wasted $350 on their Carbine when I first got into airsoft, and now that I'm saving up for a car so it makes no sense.
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Post by shiftsup on Mar 23, 2013 18:14:39 GMT -5
Why bother? The Marushin M1 Rifle isn't meant to be a skirmishable piece. It was made for enthusiasts that are not permitted to own the real verion due to the laws of their country. For North Americans, it is at best, a fun backyard plinker in regards to function.
I own the Spartan Imports "green gas" version of the Marushin M1 Rifle. Had it since 2009. Hasn't stopped working and is fun to load and shoot. The ejecting clip is a nice touch too.
But 8mm, 475 fps, small gas reservoir and the ejecting clip make a it a non starter for gaming purposes. Never mind all those screws on it that seem to defy loctite.
Better question to ask is when will the clone aeg M1 Rifle be on the market.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 24, 2013 9:13:06 GMT -5
Obviously,a clone of the Spartan Imports Version would be better than the original. Cloning does sometimes improve the gun though. If I remember correctly the CYMA Thompson is a clone of the Tokyo Marui? Fps jumped, and the barrel problem went away too I believe.
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Post by brownien on Mar 24, 2013 10:22:07 GMT -5
The CYMA Thompson Fps only increased because the TM Thompson's was restricted because it was intended for Japan. The barrel problem was never fixed as many CYMA owners can attest to. Its the same gun, made by a different manufacturer, with the exception of a different spring, but the spring could be changed out by any average Joe, what you are talking about for the Marushin SI M1 is completely different. That would require some redesign work on the mech, and the use of at least Cold Rolled Steel, to make it actually durable to prolonged operation! Apples and Oranges.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 24, 2013 11:21:07 GMT -5
The Marushin gbb m1 is simply NOT a viable skirmishable airsoft gun. Any effort to make it better (dubious liklihood of success) would most likely make it far MORE expensive not less. I thought you were asking about a clone of the AEG Garand which has a greater potential liklihood although not for some time (if at all). I would love to eventually see a reliable, well done aeg garand at under $200.00 but after waiting 12 years i'm thrilled to see the ICS and know the GnG is just around the corner.
By the time a $200.00 good Garand comes out, you'll be old enough to have a job and odds are your interests will have moved on to some other passion. I hope that won't be the case because WW2 Airsoft needs all the enthusiasm it can muster.
A passion for the Marushin M1 is misguided unless as mentioned earlier you just like something to plink with (occassionally) or for film work.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Mar 24, 2013 12:58:01 GMT -5
Obviously,a clone of the Spartan Imports Version would be better than the original. Cloning does sometimes improve the gun though. If I remember correctly the CYMA Thompson is a clone of the Tokyo Marui? Fps jumped, and the barrel problem went away too I believe. Cloning DOESNT improve a gun. Most of the time it makes it worse, and I assure you they didn't fix the barrel problem because I own a CYMA and have friends who also own other Thompson clones, they've all had the barrel problem. I can't understand why you want such a crappy gun cloned in the first place? (talking about Marushins M1 now) Your better off buying a custom one or the ICS one, atleast those won't brake after 500 shots. Plus they're half the price as the Marushin
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Mar 24, 2013 13:11:59 GMT -5
Obviously,a clone of the Spartan Imports Version would be better than the original. Cloning does sometimes improve the gun though. If I remember correctly the CYMA Thompson is a clone of the Tokyo Marui? Fps jumped, and the barrel problem went away too I believe. The FPS is higher simply because its a larger spring. There wasn't any quality increase in fact I would still say the Tokyo Marui Thompson is better then then CYMA as far as the quality of the parts and construction. Both have the barrel quality. I don't really care. We have an M1 Garand that is cheaper and much better then the Marushin. Hopefully they'll release a slightly cheaper plastic version at maybe $350.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 24, 2013 13:27:36 GMT -5
I was thinking more about the subject during my morning hike. I actually think the Marushin Garand set the progress and growth of WW2 airsoft back by about a decade. Looking back at previous active members of this board who bought and advocated them nearly all got so frustrated and disallusioned by the weapon that they lost interest in WW 2 themed skirmishing. Because the model was so atrocious with respect to reliability it never really caught on in terms of sales numbers or enthusiastic support and that caused all the potential manufacturers to avoid doing a Garand (and other WW2 offerings ) for many many years.
Had it been offered as an AEG on parr say with the current ICS back when it was introduced, our hobby would be much further along then it is. Like the m14 there would be nearly a dozen companies building them and prices would no doubt be in tht sweet spot required to see them as abundantly representative as a Garand should be.
Alas, that is looking backward at what should have been rather than looking ahead at the promise the future now holds. An AEG carbine is the next holly grail!!!!
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Mar 28, 2013 11:43:16 GMT -5
What I don't understand is why you(shiftysgarand) are constantly wanting to believe in the marushin. I've ehard enough problems with marushin garand, and there's already the ICS one, which looks nice. Cloning definately lowers a gun's quality. For example, I have an AGM mp44, and a cloned AGM mp44. the AGM one has never had problems, while the cloned one has already needed a large repair, entire motor nearly fell out. From what Ive learned, this hobby needs to be done right, and it is not cheap. But, a cheap gun wont get you anywhere.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Mar 28, 2013 12:12:19 GMT -5
Also, rather than more garands,w e need more german weapons. so far, we just have AGM mp44 and mp40. ppsh41s are good as well, but not really for western front as much. the GG 98k is known for having many problems with its fps, dboy 98k is utter crap, so we definately need more german weapons. Im thinking G43 would be a nice choice. It is great with all these new US weapons (grease, BAR, garand, etc.) but what we really need are more german weapons, imho.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 28, 2013 13:08:24 GMT -5
For the longest time it was the Germans who got the new offerings and the US suffered through with the thompson and a worthless Maushin GBB garand and equally worthless Hudson GBB grease gun. Finally a few key breakthroughs for the allies with the Sten, PPSHs, ICS Garand and the new AEG Greasers. With the exception of an AEG carbine we're pretty well set. Indeed now it is the Germans who need an affordable but effective Kar98 springer and certainly a G 43 would be logical and nice. In both cases an affordable (under $600.00 machine gun would be great, M1919 and MG42/ 43.
Shifty Garand is still enthusiastic about his Marushin Garand because he really hasn't probably shot it yet. Once you do, here is something to ponder. Over the last two weeks I and some friends have put perhaps 8000 rounds through my new ICS Garand and a couple of my homebuilt M1 Garands with few if any misfeeds or misfires. Fun, fun, fun.... For thousands of rounds as opposed to fun,fun frustration, fun frustration, frustration, frustration, fun, fun, frustration. Squeaze in more gas.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Mar 28, 2013 13:49:02 GMT -5
Mg43? I thought most g980 problems were fixed the fps would be a cause of fluctuations in the weather but since I live in Florida I don't see that as an issue for me lol. I think we need more jap and ruskie weapons I would like to see more companies making ruskie weapons and I would like a fair priced jap rifle at least. The ruskies still don't have the dp28 yet and tanaka is the only one to make any jap rifles that I know of. Red fire has a spring mosin but it is only available on china websites. That's another problem, most sellers of said weapons are in China, we need more stores with these weapons
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Post by wilhelmmoa on Mar 28, 2013 18:00:18 GMT -5
Fg42 would be nice and in the future maybe a mg08 for the early war games!
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 28, 2013 18:50:33 GMT -5
Didn't SRC announce an fg42 project?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 28, 2013 23:34:59 GMT -5
Hadn't heard that but of course that would be cool. The fg was so far ahead of its time in many ways. Tiny which is a challenge if you're thinking AEG.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 29, 2013 9:01:25 GMT -5
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tootall
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Post by tootall on May 13, 2013 13:09:39 GMT -5
The old saying "you get what you pay for" you buy cheap and cheap is what you get! Both ICS and GnG are excellent guns. If you can't afford it, maybe you need to rethink this and go into something else. I think it's worth the money and time to wait to get one. Why are you in such a hurry? Afraid you will die tomorrow? Save up like me and get something worthwhile.
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Post by bloodandguts5150 on May 14, 2013 10:43:15 GMT -5
Mg43? I thought most g980 problems were fixed the fps would be a cause of fluctuations in the weather but since I live in Florida I don't see that as an issue for me lol. I think we need more jap and ruskie weapons I would like to see more companies making ruskie weapons and I would like a fair priced jap rifle at least. The ruskies still don't have the dp28 yet and tanaka is the only one to make any jap rifles that I know of. Red fire has a spring mosin but it is only available on china websites. That's another problem, most sellers of said weapons are in China, we need more stores with these weapons I agree, I would love to see some Jap weapons. Those of us who do PTO really have no one to do a somewhat accurate skirmish with. Maybe if they started offering some jap stuff, maybe just maybe we'd have some interest sparked there
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on May 14, 2013 16:32:47 GMT -5
Not too many people do Japanese, and Tanaka already made a Type 99 and Type 38 (though being Tanaka, they cost an arm, a leg, and your first born child).
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Post by wilhelmmoa on May 14, 2013 17:53:42 GMT -5
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on May 15, 2013 16:30:57 GMT -5
It's $800 though.
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