2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 13, 2013 23:00:31 GMT -5
I agree. Much as I recognize the limitations of having to cock each time the Springer is quite decently designed and provides a good visual replica that isn't completely unable to be used in a skirmish. There is no way that other hokey carbine would be viable and looks comically bad.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 21, 2013 14:10:25 GMT -5
The springer CYMA M2 carbine saw its first skirmish use this last weekend at RECONDO school (a Vietnam Airsoft event). One of the players serving as OPFOR with a VC impression used it and fell quite in love with it. he picked it out of a choice of AEG AKs and assorted WW2 weapons. (MP 40, Grease gun and Thompson). He used it throughout the event and caused some casualties with it. He also died a lot but that is somewhat by design.
My ICS Greaser also got a lot of use by one of the lane graders who accompanied the LRRP patrols. Both made positive impressions. (no pun intended).
|
|
|
Post by brownien on Aug 22, 2013 15:04:57 GMT -5
For the springer banana mags, its actually pretty easy to make them into the smaller box mags. Here is mine inserted into the gun. All I needed to do, was remove the spring retainer at the back of the magazine and pullout the spring and follower. Draw 2 lines about where the mag curves at each end, and cut with a saw. The measuring could have been more exact, but I didnt have any reference to cut the length by other than what looked right. The piece on the left is what was removed, top and bottom cleaned up and glued together on a flat surface, and reassembled with 2" cut off the spring. I actually did the same thing to 11 thompson mag recently, to make the correct 20rd length in midcaps! All the same principals used as with the carbine mag. With my opting to use a Ver7 gearbox instead of the aep, I recently put it back together cosmetically and am selling it as a prop, to fund furthering my carbine project.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 22, 2013 23:39:58 GMT -5
Wow great job. Thanks as always for sharing. If you don't mind my asking how well do the shortened magazines feed and in the case of the carbine and the Thompson how many rounds do they hold? I have long considered doing the thompsons but just never got around to it and likewise have planned to do the carbine magazines but have waited until sourcing them was easier and the prices would perhaps come down. With all of these projects, doing several clips at the same time is generally more efficient.
|
|
|
Post by brownien on Aug 23, 2013 0:19:05 GMT -5
Both kinds of mags I converted actually feed just as well as before the modification. The carbine mag went from holding 40 to about 25, so not too bad. And the 110rd stock thompson mags now hold 75-80. It also depends on how much spring you remove. Too much and there won't be enough tension to feed, too little and the will be too much tension and less BB's. a rule of thumb would be, for midcaps that the bb channel is a U shape, for every inch of mag removed, remove 1 inch of spring. With my thompson mags, I removed 1&1/4" of mag from the center, so I removed 1&1/4" of spring.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 26, 2013 18:05:56 GMT -5
I bought one each of Browniens modified magazines and will building my own. i orderd a batch of the carbine magazines and already have a bunch of thompson magazines ready to be cut down. I still can't source the carbines directly from UKARMS as they apprently sold production runs to CYMA. Its nice to see these available from various sources and typically on Ebay there aretwo or three sellers listing them. Sales seem to end up aroumd $70.00 to $75.00 shipped. This will eventually come down to somewhere around $60.00 shipped I suspect.
Definitely a good value for the money and a way for a WW2 player on a budget to get into the game cheaply with something other than a Thompson. I plan to add a couple more to my armory and while I will leave one in the M2 configuration for Namsofting the others will be tweaked to look more correct for WW2 events. A perfect issue weapon for Platoon SGT and Plt Leaders as well as RTOs and crew served weapons guys.
I am very pleased with this offering.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 3, 2013 17:05:28 GMT -5
the rifles are now offered at Airsoftgi for $44.00 plus shipping which is really cheap and they had spare magazines at $5.25! i bought what I could from them and they now appear SOLD OUT but when they re stock this is a great deal. i got Browniens cut down carbine clip and as mentioned found it holds 25 rounds and looks and works great. I will make more using his work as a template. the CYMS springer magazines are miserable to load. (There must be a method I'm missing) but otherwise I love this little gun. Cheap but quite decent looking and a hard hard shooter. Everybit as skirmishable as my old Marushin Gas 6mm Carbine from way back when for 1/5th the money!
I recommend this item and have purchased another!
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 5, 2013 22:17:41 GMT -5
I finally received six of the cheap springer magazines and have cut them down. By using Browniens sample mag as a template it was very, very, easy to do. Inside the magazine is a lead bar for weight and i cut them down for both weight and internal strength for the mags which need to be glued together where the center section was removed. They are all drying tonight. I used general purpose goop type glue to attach the lead weight inside insuring that it would only be secured to one side of the magazine allowing them to be taken apart. The seam for the attachment point which inevitably has tiny gaps is attached with ABS cement which acts as a mild filler. (i hope)
Tomorrow i will insert the shortened springs and guiding hardware and hope they all work. If so i will put a thin layer of dyna glass, up to where they mount in the mag well and do some detail work to eliminate the m2 mag patterns and replace them with the appropriate look for a M1 mags.
Because the rifle doesn't disassemble like a carbine. The receiver groups stay in place with the stock, a carbine stock pouch won't slide into place. This is an iconic look and quite functional so i will attempt to cut and resew a pouch so it will mount. I am also going to attempt to remove a little more spring length so hopefully i can get a little more mag capacity in these shortened clips.
I am a fan of this little riflr. I am also starting to get the mang of inserting BBs in the magazine with the speed loader.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 17, 2013 23:07:06 GMT -5
The shortened magazines for both the carbine and Thompson work great and by using dyna glass as a filler and then sanding everything down and painting them the seams are reasonably gone an look great. The new shorter length fit great in carbine pouches and when time allows I'll figure out how to install the pouch on the rifle as a stock pouch.
The springer carbines have settled into consistently shooting .20 gram BBs at well over 300 FPS. Since the rifle is quite accurate, can be cocked fairly quickly at the shoulder and shoots reasonably hard it is as skirmishable as most bolt action replicas. The barrels on both of my springer carbines had to be thoroughly cleaned by the way.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 28, 2013 19:47:14 GMT -5
On ebay there are currently lots of these listed and they range from $49.50 shipped as a STARTING BID to $79.00 plus shipping. At under $60.00 shipped this is a very attractive offering and is an inexpensive but viable entry weapon for someone coming into the sport. Spare magazines are periodically available at airsoft gi for $5.25 each. I sliced and resewed a pouch onto the stock on one of mine and it adds a lot. On a real carbine the rifle has to be field stripped for the pouch to slide onto the stock but these don't disassemble that way so re sewing is neccessary. I also repainted the stock to enhance the look of the simulated wood and added a replica sling.
Tweaking the rifle to a more authentic ww2 appearance is quite easy. I cut off and sanded the bayonet lug, re did the rear site and shortened a bunch of the clips. these are really fun little guns.
|
|
shiftysgarand
Corporal
BangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangPING
Posts: 1,165
|
Post by shiftysgarand on Oct 28, 2013 19:51:13 GMT -5
Very cool. Should I recommend this to my extremely low-budget friend who's interested in WWII airsoft?
|
|
|
Post by brownien on Oct 28, 2013 20:05:17 GMT -5
I would! As an entry level gun, it has the range of any other rifle after the barrel is cleaned, and it has the firepower of a bolt action rifle.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 28, 2013 23:56:50 GMT -5
As a replica it looks quite good and it shoots hard enough and straight enough to get some eliminations. If it was semi auto it would be fabulous. As it is its very very good. Everybit as good as most of the bolt action offerings. I still struggle getting BBs into the magazines. Can't get the hang of how to use a speed loader with them but once hand loaded (one BB at a time) the magazine swaps are easy and with 3 or four spare mags I typically get eliminated before I run out of BB anyway. a useable Ww2 Airsoft gun under 70 bucks with spare magazines is just unheard of typically. This is perfect for a base, beginner gun that transitions perfectly into a squad leader/ platoon leader rifle or back up for a mortar man, bazooka gunner or vehicle driver just like the real carbine was intended to be.
|
|
shiftysgarand
Corporal
BangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangPING
Posts: 1,165
|
Post by shiftysgarand on Oct 29, 2013 18:27:46 GMT -5
Okay, I'll recommend it. Is the bayonet lug plastic? Just wondering how hard it is to cut off.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 29, 2013 20:18:36 GMT -5
The bayonet lug is plastic and a dremel and some sand paper makes quick work of it. The rear sight (should you elect to replace it) can be removed and replace quite easily with the appropriate early war peep sight. The rear site was a pleasant surprise as it was all metal, fully adjustable and mounted identically to a real one. The Rear site is identical in appearance to the rear peep sight used on M1903 A3's and late war carbines. For my Springfield conversion projects I was paying $20.00 to $25.00 for these parts and that was for beat up somewhat coroded ones! To remove the rear site, remove the side screw and pull out the sliding sight. This will expose the base screw to remove the outer housing.
The actual part mounts right in.
I had some PMs asking about cocking effort and consistent feeding. You can cock these from the shoulder while aiming but must take care to insure you pull it all the way back for a proper feed. You can also potentially cock it with your left hand by reaching below and across. This allows you to keep your trigger finger in place speeding up your shots (somewhat) This requires somewhat more effort and requires a little practice. A good workout however! It would be fun to have an all bolt action event as it would really allow for a lot more freedom of manuever and cut down on stalemates. I have now bought 3 of these cheap springers and they all work well and I remain very pleased with them.
I always worry about having enough loaner guns and these are perfect fill in guns.
|
|
|
Post by IwoJima3823 on Nov 11, 2013 19:30:27 GMT -5
For the springer banana mags, its actually pretty easy to make them into the smaller box mags. Here is mine inserted into the gun. All I needed to do, was remove the spring retainer at the back of the magazine and pullout the spring and follower. Draw 2 lines about where the mag curves at each end, and cut with a saw. The measuring could have been more exact, but I didnt have any reference to cut the length by other than what looked right. The piece on the left is what was removed, top and bottom cleaned up and glued together on a flat surface, and reassembled with 2" cut off the spring. I actually did the same thing to 11 thompson mag recently, to make the correct 20rd length in midcaps! All the same principals used as with the carbine mag. With my opting to use a Ver7 gearbox instead of the aep, I recently put it back together cosmetically and am selling it as a prop, to fund furthering my carbine project.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 12, 2013 15:05:04 GMT -5
NEW discovery and a bit of a puzzlement. I modified one of the newest carbines I received and when cutting off the bayonet lug with my dremel saw sparks flying. Low and behold the bayonet lug is screwed into place. Obviously removing it is much easier then I had thought. DUH!!!!! two tiny screws holding it in place. the front sight is also screwed into place.
I am somewhat redoing these rifles that I bought with simple visual enhancements. traditionally to enhance the appearance of the stocks I mask off the metal bits or remove them (such as the butt plate) and lightly sand the stock creating a mild "grain". I then hand paint the stock with a yellow ochre acrylic paint. once again enhancing a "grain" effect with the brush. Once dry I overspray with a special paint from craft shops that simulates a wood finish quite convincingly. Coat lightly until the desired effect occures. These wood simulations come in a variety of shades from OAK, Cherry, Walnut, Mahogany and Dark Walnut. Once this drys I mask and paint the metal in a dark grey for an early war parkerized finish and having done that, overspray the entire rifle in a protective DULL Coat. Add an actual sling and oiler and these guys look real real good. Incidently by aggressively sanding the plastic seams on the stocks the plastic sort of melts together eliminating the seam altogether (especially after your finish is applied).
|
|
stuka
Sergeant
The one and only
Posts: 1,205
|
Post by stuka on Nov 12, 2013 15:48:10 GMT -5
wooops haha
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 12, 2013 16:40:34 GMT -5
The screws made me wonder as I hadn't noticed them at all on the first two that I removed. I went back and looked and sure enough they were always there. With this next batch of carbines coming in I will chronical the steps I use in the effort to enhance their look and how I do what I can to modify them into respectable M1s from the M2 state they arrive in. I will post this tutorial in the DIY section.
In further testing and after shooting lots of rounds through these I will have to say that the ideal BB weight is in fact a .20. I tried .23s, .25s and .28s. There just isn't enough power or hop up capability for the heavier BBs. The .20s in the best of the batch shot at 332FPS and 315 in the worst. 328 FPS is the average. On a positive note, whatever FPS each one shoots at, the performance is quite consistent. This is critical in a gun where you need each shot to count. For as cheap as they are I can't get over how good they are.
You aren't going to get long distance kills with them but if you are prudent and have good team mate support you will get by.
|
|
|
Post by IwoJima3823 on Nov 13, 2013 1:27:28 GMT -5
I am buying 4 mags and don't have time or money to fail at this project, so could someone list the steps to cut down the Carbine mag? And how tall does the mag have to be to fit in a carbine mag pouch?
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 13, 2013 11:53:13 GMT -5
Based on the pictures shared by Brownien above, if you aren't fairly comfortable you can tackle the project I'd be a bit hesitant to take it on. The right tools are critical as you need a fine, sharp cutting tool that will create a thin, relatively unobtrusive cut. A hobby saw or dremel with a fine cutting wheel works great. Otherwise your seam will be too rough which will snag your BB nipples guide feet. (The tip of the spring has little leg protrusions that slide along an inner channel inside the magazine. )
I could mail you a sheet with the exact pattern of the cuts as Brownien and I did them. If you cut out the curved section of the magazine leaving just the straight portions on top and on the bottom, your height will look right in the gun and will fit fine in the pouches.
Because Brownien was kind enough to sell me his prototype I had an easy guide to follow which helped a lot. I have 12 more magazines enroute so I will photo each step of their conversion and post it in the DIY section. Like you I really prefer the looks of the 15 round sized box magazines. Keep in mind your capacity is under 25 rounds so four functioning mags is going to be kind of a minimum if this is your primary. My goal is to have six per gun.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 11, 2013 15:07:21 GMT -5
The price on these continues to amaze me as they are currently really priced low at a couple sites. AirsoftMegastore has them at $28.00 and currently there is a listing on ebay at $25.00 plus shipping (and shipping seems in line). I stepped up and bought even more of these and now have ten of them. At this low of a price you just can't go wrong. Modifying everything is a little time consuming (especially the magazines) but they work fine and are total no brainers. i issued them out to mostly non airsofters at a recent event and because everything is simple and completely straight forward thy were perfect. With AEGs and especially gas guns there are always lots of time sucks and interuption during the event as questions come up. (dead battery, missfeeds etc). With these it was a simple "Here's how the work, load it here, cock it like this, go get em Tiger kind of deal". i loved it.
The current offer on AirsoftMegastore is 23.95 each for all black ones (These black ones clearly don't sell well for them) with four of them ordered shipping was free and they extended a one day 10% off! Literally I got four more of them delivered to my doorstep for under $100.00. (I added a few more items I needed to go over the $100.00 to get free shipping! The all black doesn't bother me in the least as I sand the stocks down, coat the "wood" bits in an acrylic wash of yellow ochre paint and then over spray with a craft shop product that creates a very convincing "wood" look that is far better then the rifles come ith normally which is itself not bad.
These guys are a steal. Especially if you enjoy doing a little finish work. There is no longer an excuse for a WW2 airsodt player on the US or German side not having a period correct weapon. These are effective enough to generate eliminations although obviously you are somewhat handy capped aginst AEGs.
|
|
|
Post by jared21 on Jan 12, 2014 10:00:11 GMT -5
Sorry to post on an older thread, but has anyone tried r-hopping either this gun or the Dboys KAR98 to make them skirmishable? I've been tempted to pick and extra one up and try it however I figured I would ask here first as I haven't torn one apart to look at the hop up yet.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 12, 2014 11:55:31 GMT -5
I suspect at their price point the hopup is pretty simplistic. obviously no idea what impact if any an R hop set up would have but it would be neat to find out. I havene't torn down the guns far enough to know what the internals are like. They are so inexpensive to buy however that you wouldn't be risking much. I now have 12 of them in my armory. I sold four modified ones so thus far I have bought 16 of these. I absolutely love these little guys. i only had functional problems with one of them and it was an easy fix. (It wouldn't cock all the way). When more then half of your players are firing springers and the automatic and semi auto weapons have limited ammo and magazine capability they are quite skirmishable as they are. It sure changes the dynamics of play and in my opinion makes for much cooler gameplay. If you decide to attempt an R hop modification let us know how it went and what you discover about the process.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 24, 2014 14:48:19 GMT -5
These were very popular supplemental weapons at the recent Battle of the Bulge event as primary guns went down. They were also very popular for plinking between battle phases. Universally the players were impressed with the quality and good looks of the guns and how well they shot. They have a nice weight to them and are very solid. I had over oiled a few of them and in the severe cold these guns didn't shoot as hard as they would have otherwise. The ones that were lightly lubed shot great in the sub freezing temperatures. In spite of having to be cocked each time they chocked up a reasonable number of eliminations.
I have now modified 16 of them to M1 carbines and have done 42 magazines. I left four of mine with Brownien to support future events, sold four and have eight at home. As bizarre as it sounds I will probably buy more. I really am blown away by how nice these are for the money and their low price makes them an excellent natural back up and perfect loaner/ rental gun which allows we who sponsor games the ability to equip and arm walk ons to a WW2 event, thus growing our hobby.
As with any BB rifle be sure to use quality BBs and do clean the barrel and carefully adjust the hop up for optimal performance. The challenge of loading the magazines is easily solved by using the adapter on the end of the speed loader and angling it 90 degrees at the tip and push in the BBs. I felt like an idiot discovering that simple fix. As with all magazines do not leave them stored when loaded as this will weaken your springs.
To mount the "two pocket" pouches on the stock you have to be sure your pouch is the correct early war type with the full flap in the back that has a snap. The pouch will not slide over the rifle when fully assembled so you either have to disassemble the rifle and take it down to the stock, slide on the stock pouch and reassemble or cut the pouch flap seam and resew on the rifle stock. It boils down to how comfortable you are with rifle disassembly or sewing skills! Either way it is a nice visual touch and provides two ready spare magazines. Incidently we discovered that three magazines per tactical phase of an airsoft game is typically adequate. Especially if you have a speed loader with the attachment with you in the field. If you are going to use a stock pouch make your magazines a little shorter (by cutting out a bigger center section)so they will fit in the pouches when mounted on the stock. (The normal length I make fit fine in the pouches when on a belt but the curved stock shape limits their capability to hold the mags and still close the flap.)
I have thus far had no failures with any of these guns which for airsoft and loaner guns is amazing!
|
|
shiftysgarand
Corporal
BangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangPING
Posts: 1,165
|
Post by shiftysgarand on Jan 24, 2014 15:14:20 GMT -5
Scott and I have decided to buy 5 of these things to use as training weapons for our squad. They are simply so little hassle compared to an AEG or a gbb.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 24, 2014 19:13:26 GMT -5
Having them available as backups or loaner guns will help you grow WW2 airsoft in your area. You just can't beat the price. If you need tips on how to convert them visually (especially how to convert the magazines) let me know and I'll send you a picture heavy tutorial. Currently the least expensive price is at Airsoft megastore for the all black ones and the lowest cost on the magazines is at airsoft GI. If your purchase is over $100.00 your shipping is free and take advantage of any discounts they have which add up quickly.
|
|
2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
|
Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 26, 2014 14:43:26 GMT -5
This is certainly a case of supply and demand as all of my regular suppliers have sold out of these awesome little carbines. The retailers who still have some jumped their prices back up to around $41.00 to $45.00 plus shipping and the offerings on Ebay spiked as well. In my opinion anything under $50.00 for this gun still constitutes a good value as they are a very, very good little replica.
There for a while they were so stupidly cheap that I couldn't help myself and bought a bunch of them. Glad I did! Maybe over time they will drop back down in price but who knows?
|
|