2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 21, 2013 16:52:37 GMT -5
in the thread discussing the cheap CYMS / UK Arms M1 carbine (actually an M2). Someone called our attention to a new carbine offering on EBAY. www.ebay.com/itm/Good-Quality-M1-US-Carbine-Caliber-0-30-Auto-Electric-Airsoft-Rifle-/231031822412?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ca91d84c. It looked positively dreadful but at under $75.00 shipped I just couldn't help myself. i ordered one and it arrived today. It looked everybit as bad as I had imagined and performed essentially on par with an AEP. It has so many visual infidelities that I don't know where to start. The overall size is about right and there is no mistaking it for anything other then a carbine. As we always used to say " Better then a burlap wrapped AK 47.". ( Isn't nice that those days are now long gone?) Visually just look at the pictures in the listing and you'll know what you're getting. (neck too large, lots of seams, screw holes on one side, oversized magazine. Hokey bayonet lug, completely wrong sling hardware and a finger grip replicating the early Marushin gas cockers. The trigger housing and selector switch area are all matched simulated wood and the upper site is positioned wrongly but again at a distance it all looks decent and some detail work can enhance or refine some of this. The butt plate houses the battery which is a typical cheap 7.2 small with a wall charger. Do not charge for over four hours (even for the first charge) and it has a small Tamiya fitting. I fired it with an 8.4 small battery and it fit snugly but just fine in the butt stock. The butt plate serves as the cover and it is quite flimsy. Black tape would be recommended for field use. The side selector switch is for SAFE FULL AUTO and SEMI. It is of course over sized and quite wrong. It shoots best with short bursts on Full auto but expect many misfires. The magazine holds 120 rounds and is the winding type magazine. It must be kept at full wound state and needs spinning about every 30 rounds. The hop up is a slide just above the charging handle (which is fixed) I saw no change in Bb performance using the hop up other than more misfires and ugly gear noises. I used .20 gram BBs which worked fine. It chrono'd with .20 gram at an anemic 220 FPS but actually seemed to be shooting pretty hard. (indoors). The rounds do NOT come out universally strong with many just barely coming out. outside I found I could hit a half sized human silhouette consistently at about 60 feet where there seemed to be enough inertia that a player MIGHT know he was hit. If one buys this gun with reasonably low expectations and did a little visual TLC it is viable for use (but barely). my opinion is it is as skirmishable as a gas Marushin due to greater reliablility and low hassle factor but of course no where near as nice looking or as powerful. in an effort to get WW2 airsoft off the ground I'd say I'd rather have five of these then one Marushin gas gun. What the heck it's a semi / full auto carbine AEG. awful as it is it fills a niche until something better comes along. As stated with the UKARMS springer it can serve as a leaders rifle or crew served weapons primary and makes an AEG sound that if nothing else may keep the enemies head down. incidently I have serious doubts it will be very robust as the gear box and gears are plastic.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 22, 2013 13:47:57 GMT -5
I was asked since I have both which of the new inexpensive carbines I prefer. (Between the UKARMS (CYMA) springer M2 carbine and this ACM AEG replica.). Both can be bought for under $75.00 and both prices over time will no doubt come down somewhat. The question is an interesting one. The UKARMs springer though by no means perfect is a far far better looking replica but has to be cocked each time. It shoots quite hard however and thus far has proven to be consistent. The plastic gear box AEG is semi or full auto and thus is much more competitive (close up). As a replica it is embarrasingly bad.
In both cases you get what you pay for and I don't regret either purchase. In my case I would say I like the UKARMs springer quite a bit more. In both cases I expect to see them at a price point of around $55.00 or less so no major investment here. Great to see new WW2 offerings and given their intended role their lack of skirmishability is actually kind of a plus in a strange sort of way. I intend to buy more as loaner guns to fill ranks for local events.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 23, 2013 22:46:11 GMT -5
In an effort to push this cheap AEG carbine I loaded and fired off 6 full magazines (of 115 rounds) hence together with what i put through it on the first day I have now put over 1000 rounds through it. Surprisingly both the gun and the magazine performance has improved. The FPS is still the same but the consistency of shots is better and the high cap mgazine now fires off more rounds before it needs winding. On day one about every third round came out slower or didn't feed at ll and you only got 25 to 30 shots before you had to re wind the magazine. Today virtually every squeaze of the trigger prouced a consistently nemic 230 FPS but with no "droopers". With a full wind I consistently got 65 to 75 shots before I had to crank the magazine wheel. ( I hate high caps!). The accuracy at 50 feet is not horrible. I had no trouble putting every round into a 6" x 6" target.
It's still a cheap, hokey little gun but fun in it's own way. I am going to spend a little effort cosmetically to enhance the looks a bit. I'll cut off the bayonet lug. Paint the trigger housing and selector swith area. Perhap enlargen or replace the trigger guard and slighly relocate the rear site and fill the screw holes. (if it breaks its not worth repairing anyway). The magazine will remain over sized and poorly located but it should get it to the point that it is bearable.
If these get down to $50.00 or so they probably would be worth buying as a desperation back up or loaner gun. For a small unit leader they are ideal as they are light, unobtrusive and perform so poorly that the leader will do everything he can to fight his element and only fire as a last ditch defense or to direct his troops fire.
In short it has the comparative capability of an M1 carbine.
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Post by slick63 on Aug 25, 2013 10:34:50 GMT -5
I like your thinking, at the end of the day it`s a cheap entry into ww2 airsoft. It looks a bit gawky but from a distance it`ll do the job. If they were available over here in the uk then I`d definately pick one up. I`ve just received my M2 springer through the post, by the time uk customs added their charges it`s probably cost me just short of $100, plus I can`t get hold of any spare magazines over here. It`s a shame the springer didn`t come with a hicap as this lpeg does.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 25, 2013 20:28:53 GMT -5
Using it in a skirmsh against full power AEGs I doubt you will need more then the 60 or 70 rounds you get on a full wind before you're eliminated. this is a stop gap weapon only.
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Post by brownien on Aug 25, 2013 22:06:19 GMT -5
Using low powered weapons like this for new recruits would have a bonus though. Having very little firepower with this gun, would mean they would need to learn to rely on squad tactics to work effectively on the field.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 26, 2013 1:33:15 GMT -5
There is that. I would love one day to see historic airsoft factor relative power capabilities so one actually has trade offs when they choose weapons and squads have assorted capabilities based on the weapons within the squad. I.e. Weapons that in reality fired pistol ammunition like SMGs had less hitting power and range with the carbine somewhere in between. Hence folks willing to field bolt action, long rifles would have an upside.
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Post by aj czarkowski on Aug 26, 2013 19:27:56 GMT -5
That would be cool but that's probably not going to happen anytime soon. Especially when 85-95% of the Germans use MP40's and STG44's, this M1 Carbine would only come in handy as a backup weapon. The last event I went to I used a Kar98k and lent a friend my M1903, both upgraded. And after that battle we decided never to do that again. You'd think with VSR11's we would have them outranged, but who knew an MP40 could shoot that far
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 26, 2013 19:48:21 GMT -5
The marginal benefit of range you get with even a substantially upgraded rifle is less then most people realize and as range increases light weight BBs quickly lose their enertia which means they are harder and harder to feel when hit. With bolt action, slow firing rifles it's only one or two cocks of the rifle before this range advantage is closed and the ability to pour in rounds nd kep th muzzle trained on the target quickly has a telling effect. The newer Chinese issued guns shoot almost rediculously hard and with larger batteries have incredible rates of fire. It will of course never happen but if it were up to me sub machine guns shooting pistol ammunition would be limited to less then 300 PS while rifles and Machine guns would be held to 420 FPS or less. bolt action rifls Really have no power advantage in the real world over main battle weapons rounds but because a single hit is hard to identify as a BB strike I would allow them to go up to 550 FPS. All of this is of course mental masturbation and simply me thinking out loud.
It is a shame that from a field skirmish perspective there really is no real advantage and considerable downsides to fielding authentic, long, main battle rifles or crew served MGs unless relative FPS and mag capacity is factored in. We strive to emphasize low cap magazines with restricted ammo for all but the MGs so they will have a realistic impact at squad lebel engagements.
Right now why wouldn't everyone buy Thompsons and MP40s with high caps? Until Garands and Kar98s are the dominant weapons being fielded we have an authenticity gap that really should eventually be closed.
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Post by brownien on Aug 26, 2013 21:55:04 GMT -5
Although sniper rifles, or rifles to begin with, do have better range, and precision at range, they are too slow firing to keep that gap from being closed by guys with Mp40s and Thompsons. Lowering Fps for pistol caliber type guns, wouldnt really be a solution that would please many. The real name of the game is the FOUR F's. Find 'em, Fix 'em, Flank 'em, and Finish 'em! When one or both sides are smg heavy, it is easy for one or two guys with bolt actions to become fixed by one smg guy. This problem won't go away until we make semi-auto mandantory for a majority of smg users, until both sides are equipped with a realistic count of Main Battle rifles. If there are too many smg's, group everyone up, set up squads, and designate dedicated smg guys. Anyone not so designated will be required to keep their tommy or grease gun on semi. Same goes for Mp40 guys. I think this should be implemented to every WW2 game, until every rifleman has a M1, M1903, SMLE, or Kar/Bar98k. Of a ten man squad, two, at most should have smg's, and one BAR/Mg gunner. Secondly, Teamwork! The reason we want to have big games is for immersion. Whats more immersive than relying on the guy in the foxhole next to you, to give you cover fire? Splitting up each side into cohesive squads, with designated commanders, even with small numbers, can make any event that much more immersive and fun! Giving a side a designated commander, with a 2nd in command for each squad would keep players together with a sense of comraderie. When you're fixed by an opponent, its always nice to know you have another comrade willing to flank while you fix them right back! IMO
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 27, 2013 0:36:56 GMT -5
Brownien! great minds think alike. At this point in the hobby with SMGs still the most numerous weapons at events I agree that requiring the bulk of the participants to put their weapons on semi is a great way to keep historical events more authentic. Use in semi auto can rotate so everyone gets to experience both although when folks are in agreement to the basic concept we find that folks really enjoy the way it opens the events up and reduces the stalemates that so often plague airsoft skirmishes.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 27, 2013 21:44:05 GMT -5
I was home today with a little time on my hands although I head out tomorrow for a week followed by a month and a half on the road. I pulled out the cheap semi auto carbine and started in on the cometic enhancements that will somewhat improve this frankengun. I cut off the bayonet lug and applied some dyna glass to the stock so I could fill in the screw holes and cut marks where I removed the bayonet lug. i removed the finger grooves (it was screwed into place with two tiny screws which once removed exposed an unfinished charging handle shape). With a dremel and some dyna glass redid the looks of the charging handle rod. eventually I will paste up all the "wood" area and once dry will sand them smooth, apply my own wood finish effects and subtle details and paint work.
It won't remedy the most aggregious infidelities of this replica but it should help a little. I enjoy plinking with it and hope to get it to a point where I wouldn't be totally embarrassed to carry it. I'll post pictures when it is finished but don't expect much. I'm just thrilled to suddenly have some carbines even with their obvious shortcomings.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 2, 2013 15:10:07 GMT -5
I did the dyna paste work and a few other minr details. Once dry I sanded and masked off the "metal bits" (which are all plastic) and applied the initial coat of yellow ochre acrylic paint. I will then file this paint to further create a "grain" effect and then over spray with a opaque "wood" finish from my local craft shop. From there i will again overspray with a flat, clear dull coat. Wait for it to dry and then mask off and paint the metal bits in a dark grey "blued" finish. All way too much work for this hokey gun but what can I say. The biggest detriment visually is the oversized and too far forward magazine but otherwise it actually looks okay.
An alternative to a Thompson and better then a burlap wrapped AK 47! It is fun to plink with! Way more skirmishable then the dreadful and unreliable Hudson gas grease gun and Marushin M1 Garand simply because it shoots everytime and requires little fiddling with. Like a real carbine however you will want to get in real close!!!! Anything beyond 70 feet I doubt they'd feel it!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 2, 2013 23:01:17 GMT -5
I finished this rifle with all the cosmetic updates I intend to do. As my son likes to say...it looks good from afar but far from good. I can send pictures of the finished work. Just PM me with your direct email and I will forward a tutorial of sorts. The redone pseudo wood came out quite nice in my opinion. The sling hardware is still wrong, the magazine is way off and there are numerous infidelities too numerous to list but it's a carbine and it's semi auto. No one is going to mistake it for anything else.
A WW2 AEG under $100.00 that's not a thompson or MP40. We could do worse.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Sept 3, 2013 14:26:00 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 3, 2013 16:56:39 GMT -5
$59.00 is actually less then I bought mine for off of Ebay and seems in line with how these should be priced. the Airsplat assortment of pictures depicts it accurately and you can easily see all the imperfections. I did what I could with mine visually and am happy with it for what it is. i shot it a bunch today and got the hop up working which improved the range somewhat. It fires like its on slow motion however compared to all my other AEGs but as noted elsewhere could be used in a marginal role at an event. If your opponents are naked they might feel the hits at 100 feet. Figure an effective range of 80 feet and don't worry about a minimum engagement range beyond about five feet.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Sept 4, 2013 0:07:44 GMT -5
well the ebay lowered its price i believe so...
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 4, 2013 1:45:02 GMT -5
The listing is identical to my purchase. With reasonable shipping the airsplat at $59.00 is a good deal. At that price of course one needs to have low expectations but if you go in with that in mind you won't be disappointed. I have now ripped well over 1500 rounds through it (two full battery charges) and if anything it is now shooting better. It's hokey as you can see in the pictures but with a little cosmetic attention to detail it's a good value for the money and an excellent loaner /starter gun for WW2 airsoft. It is NOT as horrible as I had imagined and actually is kind of fun. Would I want it as my main weapon? Gawd no!!!!! But I'm glad I bought it.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 11, 2013 23:21:03 GMT -5
The current price on ebay is $62.00 shipped so the price has come down since I bought mine. I have been shooting it a lot when i come home on weekends and have been pushing it hard. Oddly enough it is actually shooting harder and better after 2,000 plus rounds. The hop up is actually doing something now (although it is by no means a precision hop up). For the money this is a fun little gun. It would be perfect for close in, backyard games. I remain quite pleased with my purchase of this and the two cheapy carbine springers I bought. The small demensions and lightweight make it easy to field just like a carbine should be. The cheap battery it came with continues to take and hold a charge (surprisingly) and you get about 800 to 900 rounds off a single charge. I haven't sourced spare magazines and i'm not sure I need or want to but it would be nice to know one could buy some.
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Post by slick63 on Sept 29, 2013 6:51:42 GMT -5
I was a bit surprised to see these on a UK retailers site (in a gawdy orange). I would have bought one but as usual in rip off Britain they are priced ridiculously high, at the equivalent of $112 not including shipping. link
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 29, 2013 19:46:58 GMT -5
At under $85.00 they represent a good deal IF you are comfortable doing a little cosmetic work and can tolerate the visual infidelities that have to be endured. Much over that and the luster is quickly lost. I like it because: a. It was cheap. B. i could doll it up a bit and enjoyed doing so. And c. Our choices for an AEG carbine are non existent. I certainly wouldn't want it as my main armament but feel it fills a gap actually quite nicely.
Hopefully they will come down in the UK.
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Sgt_Tom
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Sept 30, 2013 9:08:47 GMT -5
Too many unsolvable cosmetic issues for me to buy. Plus the really low FPS. Its a shame they couldn't get the magazine placement right. Still kinda cool though. What kind of gearbox does it have? You should upload some pics of your modified one.
I am tempted to buy one of those springers though.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Sept 30, 2013 19:59:18 GMT -5
Of the two the springer remains my favorite due to the more authentic appearance but the hokey AEG is gowing on me. The oversized and poorly positioned magazine is the biggest visual distraction now that I have redone the stock and done all I could to disquise, much of its cheeziness. I fired it a bunch more today and knocked down lots of plastic German soldiers with it. If the magazine were more correct in size and location I actually would be extremely pleased with it. The lack of power isn't as much of a turnoff as one might imagine and now that it is broken in it is very very consistent and predictable.
It definitely is skirmishable and especially as a leaders weapon or back up for a bazooka man, mortar crewmen, driver etc. I also fired my ICS Garand and Echo 1 BAR today and relatively speaking the carbine / 30:06 power ratio is actually probably pretty spot on.
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Sgt_Tom
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Combat!
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Post by Sgt_Tom on Sept 30, 2013 21:23:47 GMT -5
Yeah but like you said before when you're going against mostly automatics MP40s and now Stg44s its a tough fight. I'm used to it as I always use my K98 .
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 8, 2013 13:27:11 GMT -5
If you can hide well enough or have supporting fires that can cover you enough to get inside 100 feet of your opponent this gun will hold its own and would no doubt have a considerable edge over a bolt action gas or springer. I can see it managing some eliminations as could the springer carbines which would function on a parr with the Kar 98s or Springfields.
Marginally skirmishable remains the description I would go with for these cheap carbines. In my opinion they are every bit as effective as the Marushin GBB carbine and decidedly more skirmishable then the Marushin M1 Garand.
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