Jan 18th Battle of the Bulge

[Jerry-ADK]

thanks for the info on the Ontario ww2 site Shiftsup.  I will post our event there as soon as the moderator confirms my membership.  Lets see if we cant get some of those guys interested in attending.  

Im all for reenacting, that's the angle I am coming to ww2 airsoft from.  I am a Rev war and F&I war reenactor.  But most likely I will really enjoy WW2 airsofts tactical advantage with getting real hits.  We call the skirmishes in 18th century events tacticals, but its only a manner of speaking because its usually pre determined who will win and what will happen in any engagement.  Its all show.  I love the encampment part of those events.  Im probably going to try camping out Saturday night, although, I have no period shelter yet.   Hopefully Ill get a zelt set before the event. if not Ill play it by ear. My wife's parents live in Schenectady so I can go there too if need be.  So I hope others are going to try period camping I dont mind roughing it if there is a fire.

Also, Tactical Smoke Grenades are on their way to my house!  I ordered 6 and will give them to the squad leaders, each side will have 3 at their disposal.  Anyone interested in going in on a box of pea grenades?  It's $300 for 40.  Kinda pricey but if 6 or more of us pitched in we would have about 2 per player.  More smoke would be cheaper though to get.

[SfcMigs]

Dec 14, 2013 13:09:42 GMT -5 Jerry-ADK said:

thanks for the info on the Ontario ww2 site Shiftsup.  I will post our event there as soon as the moderator confirms my membership.  Lets see if we cant get some of those guys interested in attending.  

Im all for reenacting, that's the angle I am coming to ww2 airsoft from.  I am a Rev war and F&I war reenactor.  But most likely I will really enjoy WW2 airsofts tactical advantage with getting real hits.  We call the skirmishes in 18th century events tacticals, but its only a manner of speaking because its usually pre determined who will win and what will happen in any engagement.  Its all show.  I love the encampment part of those events.  Im probably going to try camping out Saturday night, although, I have no period shelter yet.   Hopefully Ill get a zelt set before the event. if not Ill play it by ear. My wife's parents live in Schenectady so I can go there too if need be.  So I hope others are going to try period camping I dont mind roughing it if there is a fire.

Also, Tactical Smoke Grenades are on their way to my house!  I ordered 6 and will give them to the squad leaders, each side will have 3 at their disposal.  Anyone interested in going in on a box of pea grenades?  It's $300 for 40.  Kinda pricey but if 6 or more of us pitched in we would have about 2 per player.  More smoke would be cheaper though to get.

I've been dealing with tacticalvirtue.com for some time and I might have a solution to your qty problem. If you email them ([e-mail]) att: Ray Lim and reference me (Joe Migliore from [e-mail]) and tell them your from ww2airsoft, they may wave the 300 qty. Not that dropping my name is such a big deal, but I've been dealing with them for a couple of years now and they allowed me to order $150.00 worth a couple of months ago. So it's worth a shot.

Good Luck,
Migs

[SfcMigs]

Regarding the limited ammo and so forth. I'm all for that. I used that scenario in my Bastogne event in March 2012. What I did was have everyone store their spare mags or ammo cans in a near by location and only allowed each person to have one mag in their gun and one spare. The scenario was the limited ammo the 101st had at Bastogne and how they desperately had to wait for re-supply.

We then had a duffle bag placed out in the AO and had to sent a squad out to search and recover the re-supply. Once they located the duffle, they then had to make and fight their way back to our position. What was great about this was we were under attack at the same time and had to use our ammo wisely. Some even ran out. It was only when the squad achieved their mission, players were able to re-supply themselves from our ammo cache. But they were still limited to their mags and what ever ammo cans they could carry. What most did was stash the ammo cans and have a runner go from the front lines with empty mags to the ammo stash and then return with full mags. I never allow BB's in a bottle or BB bags to be carried into the AO. With our single shot rules in effect, I think a re-supply scenario can really add another objective and important feature to the event.

Just a suggestion.

Cheers,
Migs

[ScottCollins]

Hey... who had that friend with the P-51? Was that you Migs? If so, maybe you could get him to fly over and do some strafing runs and "drop a supply crate", that would just be hidden in the woods

[shiftysgarand]

Bad weather though... remember the Germans relied on bad weather to keep US air support from annihilating them. Nonetheless, I'd love a P-51.

[ScottCollins]

Ah! I almost forgot, are we going to be using the squad system? I mean it looks like we'll have alright attendance for this event so why not?

[Jerry-ADK]

Dec 14, 2013 14:30:01 GMT -5 SfcMigs said:

Dec 14, 2013 13:09:42 GMT -5 Jerry-ADK said:

thanks for the info on the Ontario ww2 site Shiftsup.  I will post our event there as soon as the moderator confirms my membership.  Lets see if we cant get some of those guys interested in attending.  

Im all for reenacting, that's the angle I am coming to ww2 airsoft from.  I am a Rev war and F&I war reenactor.  But most likely I will really enjoy WW2 airsofts tactical advantage with getting real hits.  We call the skirmishes in 18th century events tacticals, but its only a manner of speaking because its usually pre determined who will win and what will happen in any engagement.  Its all show.  I love the encampment part of those events.  Im probably going to try camping out Saturday night, although, I have no period shelter yet.   Hopefully Ill get a zelt set before the event. if not Ill play it by ear. My wife's parents live in Schenectady so I can go there too if need be.  So I hope others are going to try period camping I dont mind roughing it if there is a fire.

Also, Tactical Smoke Grenades are on their way to my house!  I ordered 6 and will give them to the squad leaders, each side will have 3 at their disposal.  Anyone interested in going in on a box of pea grenades?  It's $300 for 40.  Kinda pricey but if 6 or more of us pitched in we would have about 2 per player.  More smoke would be cheaper though to get.

I've been dealing with tacticalvirtue.com for some time and I might have a solution to your qty problem. If you email them ([e-mail]) att: Ray Lim and reference me (Joe Migliore from [e-mail]) and tell them your from ww2airsoft, they may wave the 300 qty. Not that dropping my name is such a big deal, but I've been dealing with them for a couple of years now and they allowed me to order $150.00 worth a couple of months ago. So it's worth a shot.

Good Luck,
Migs

thanks Migs,  that's much appreciated.  I would love to have frags at the event.  If others are interested in going in on some please PM me and let me know.  I could purchase them and then get reimbursed at the event. 

[shiftysgarand]

I'm just wondering, will there be blankfirers at the event? I really think that'd add to the atmosphere.

[SfcMigs]

Dec 14, 2013 17:28:07 GMT -5 shiftysgarand said:

I'm just wondering, will there be blankfirers at the event? I really think that'd add to the atmosphere.

I don't think so. None have chimed in.

And the P-51 was a friend of Brownien. Not sure if he's available and I know we would have to kick in for fuel costs.

Migs

[ScottCollins]

Personally, I don't believe blankfire should be allowed in an airsoft game because then,as airsofters, no one would take their hits

[SfcMigs]

Dec 14, 2013 18:51:46 GMT -5 ScottCollins said:

Personally, I don't believe blankfire should be allowed in an airsoft game because then,as airsofters, no one would take their hits

I agree. I can't speak for Brownien as this is his event, but personally I will not have blank fire again at any event I'll be producing in the future. Too many unforeseen issues arisen and ultimately led to unfortunate circumstances. Not casting any blame on anyone or anything, the two hobbies just didn't mesh well together.

As it is always great to have blank fire players join us as their impression standards are very high and spot on, but they need to invest a miniscule amount of money (compared to what they spend on ammo at one of their events) and buy an airsoft gun. I always thought once WW2 airsoft was exposed to them, they would gain interest and join our hobby. After all, most of them have better impressions than we do, so all they need to do is buy a gun. Definitely an easier conversion than one us going over to blank fire.

My opinion.

[brownien]

Yup! That's my friend, but I doubt he would want to try plying it in the winter, and I doubt it would even be ready by then, I just was helping him replace a glycol pump in the cooling system; what a tight squeeze!

I will not be allowing blankfire guns at the event, as Migs said, too many unforeseen issues with the two's integration. Just as us airsofters would have to buy a RS to do blankfire with, they will just have to get an airsoft gun. I am more than welcome to have some attend, as we will be getting loaner guns, so that shouldn't be a deterrant.

Also, I talked to my friend with the M29, and he doesn't think it will be in working order by then, but he is willing to let us use his gamma goat if necessary. I know it's not ww2, but it is pretty cool! I am 80% sure I will have a vehicle available to us. I'll keep trying!

[ScottCollins]

You never answered my question Nate, are mortars allowed at this game?

[brownien]

Oops! Sorry I missed that, yes mortars are allowed. Depending on the mission, I'll set you up with a mortar team to operate with

[2nd Bat]

We have had several blankfire enthusiasts at a number of our big games with generally positive results. We did see a pattern and that is the ones who were willing to use an airsoft gun we provided them and especially those who had their own, were great. The ones who insisted on only using their real weapons and only fired blanks at the event were not enthusiastic about our instrument for emmersion and we weren't very happy with their contributions to the event. I love the sound effects but frankly fire crackers in the distance can accomplish that. They understandably hated the way airsofters move across open areas when they know they are out of range. (so do I!) and the spray and pray rate of fire for airsoft guns. (so do I)andmost airsofters hated the apparent 100% lethality of unaimed shots. (so do I). The thing we really liked about the reenactors was their attention to detail and especially the Effort they put into ambiance.

[SfcMigs]

Dec 14, 2013 23:47:22 GMT -5 2nd Bat said:

We have had several blankfire enthusiasts at a number of our big games with generally positive results. We did see a pattern and that is the ones who were willing to use an airsoft gun we provided them and especially those who had their own, were great. The ones who insisted on only using their real weapons and only fired blanks at the event were not enthusiastic about our instrument for emmersion and we weren't very happy with their contributions to the event. I love the sound effects but frankly fire crackers in the distance can accomplish that. They understandably hated the way airsofters move across open areas when they know they are out of range. (so do I!) and the spray and pray rate of fire for airsoft guns. (so do I)andmost airsofters hated the apparent 100% lethality of unaimed shots. (so do I). The thing we really liked about the reenactors was their attention to detail and especially the Effort they put into ambiance.

I agree on both points. Airsofters are used to moving in the open when they know their opponent can't reach them and blank fire players have a 100% accuracy rate. They never miss! And there lies the problem.

While the blank fire players said they would call their hits, they also had an unfair advantage of unlimited range on the airsoft field. They wanted their targets to call hits at 100 yards or more while airsofters were not used to this type of play, thus causing some friction between the two groups. The ambiance and sound effects are nice, but not enough to overlook the issues it caused.

Best thing to do is to just keep it airsoft guns.

[brownien]

Having the out of range problems really isn't too much of an issue if you take everything into prespective. Normally, our numbers at events are much smaller than in the real deal, but we can still mimic the same tactics, but on a smaller scale. Same thing with the volume levels, are guns still make a report that can be used to identify direction of fire, but they are much quieter (albeit the wrong sound altogether) same thing with engagement distances. In airsoft, 200m would be the equivalent to 1500m for RS guns, everything is just at a smaller scale

[2nd Bat]

Terrain choice is always critical with airsoft and one of the reasons the Northwest and New England are often great places for airsoft. Choose locations where "if you can see em you can hit them" and encourage movement in the open as though you were in the enemies sights. Often in venues that are too open a simple day with a backhoe can do wonders!

[ScottCollins]

Will you also be encouraging modern airsofters to come and join up as partisans for the germans by any chance?

[brownien]

I am trying to, there aren't really many locals that play often, but I made some flyers up and put them up at the pro shop at the field

[shiftysgarand]

I don't think you answered Scott's question, are we running by the squad system? If so, how will we determine squad leaders?

[2nd Bat]

At losheim Gap I had a perfectly designed ammo limit since I issued 80% of the weapons and magazines. All but two of the main (non crew served weapons) had low cap magazines and I only had three magazines per gun. In addition each player got one speed loader and that was it. The BARs each had six mid caps ( 110 rounds each). Most of the players aren't regular airsofters so frankly they didn't know any better. I like the idea of an ammo point for a continuous action event but since this was a series of missions it really wasn't a factor. I like seeing guys (especially on defense) when they are outnumbered having to share ammo and I didn't see any of that so if anything I probably gave out too much ammo!

[ScottCollins]

Is this event going to be a continuous event Nate? Or is it just going to be a series of battles? I think it'd be awesome with the number of people coming to do a continuous attack and defense game!

[shiftysgarand]

I think he said somewhere that it would be a series of missions, continuous would be fun though.

[knights52]

On the conversion of blank fire reenactors to airsofters, many reenactors think we aren't serious enough and dislike us for our lack I authenticity. In the Year I've spent as a reenactor I've become disgusted at the amout of dislike they sometimes have towards airsofters. But it seems that those who have participated in a game are far more accepting. I do my best to encourage them to play Airsoft, but my efforts haven't been very fruitful.

Also, on the 100% accuracy of blank fire, we do understand that not every shot is a kill. At bf events you'd be amazed at the amount of fire we lay down with zero kills.

[shiftysgarand]

I remember someone has in the past set up speakers to simulate distant small arms fire. Was it you brownien?

[brownien]

I will be appointing squad leaders and 2nd in commands. I would like to lay out the squads so that firepower is evenly distributed throughout the teams. I would like to limit the type of mags to mid or low caps, but I know some people only have high caps for their guns. I will most likely will limit the number of high caps, and require them to be removed durring winding.
On the topic of reloading, I will allow each team's MG team to carry a small bag of spare bb's and speedloaders. This will help those who have a very limited amount of mags, and will make supporting the MG team important for each teams success

[2nd Bat]

Awesome Nate. That sounds great. For high caps we limited their ammo to the high cap alone but I like the remove and reinsert rule. I hate hi caps! But understand full well that some guns simply don't have mid or low caps available.

[brownien]

I havnt done that at any past events, but I will be doing that for this one. I have a generator for power, and I will be looping battle ambiance through an amplifier.

The entire event will not truly be continuous, but only the CO's will really know when we are taking a break. Each team's CO will be in constant radio contact on their own private channel, and will coordinate to prevent one team or another from becoming truly overwhelmed, but the event wont have any predetermined winners. It will have the feel of a continuous event, with plenty of attacking, retreating, and regrouping, all while worring about enemy contact.

[shiftysgarand]

Sounds great! How will you determine COs?