2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 9, 2013 1:16:30 GMT -5
this offering is discussed elsewhere but needs to be included in the gun reviews section since it represents a viable product worth considering.
This is erroneously being marketed as a M1 Carbine and even an M14 on some sites. It is produced by UKArms ( 1U M1) commonly sold as a CYMA product. It is spring powered and quite inexpensive. The Price ranges from 49.00 to 79.00 on Ebay which is way down from when it was initially introduced. In fact it is a very decent looking replica of the M2 carbine which is more appropriate for the Korean War or Vietnam. I have actually bought several after SGT TOM pointed it out in the thread on my home built carbine build project. The guns are a pretty good one to one replica. The stock is plastic in a simulated wood that looks okay and there is lots of metal in the replica. It weighs five pounds which is in sync with the actual carbine. It is fairly easy to tweak the gun into a reasonable WW2 M1 carbine. I took the first one I bought and cut off the bayonet lug, removed the late war peep site (a nice all metal, fully adjustable part) and replaced it with the early war, carbine flip site. I sewed on a stock pouch, added a replica carbine sling, shortened six of the banana shaped magazines (using Browniens approach as a pattern) and did some paint work on the stock and metal parts. The end result looks very good even close up.
For a springer it shoots very well. With .20 grams it (all three that I have ) shoot at between 315 and 328 FPS. The cocking effort is pretty straight forward. You can easily cock it from the shoulder or even use your non firing arm (in my case my left arm wrapped underneath the gun. The rate of fire is hence quite good for a springer. The banana magazine that comes with the gun is plastic with internal weights and holds 40 rounds. To modify them you cut about two inches from the center and glue them back together. with the WW2 modified magazines they hold 25 rounds. Spare magazines range from $17.00 to a low of $5.25 each on AirsoftGI! At that price I felt I could experiment. The modification is time consuming but not especially challenging.
This is by no means a first choice, fully competetive airsoft rifle for skirmishing but it shoots hard enough and accurately enough that a player armed with one could reasonably expect to get eliminations with it. I have a Marushin CO2 gas blow back M1 carbine that is semi automatic but with four spare mags cost nine times as much! This gun would be nearly as effective and is a much more reasonable loaner/ rental gun.
The actual carbine was by design intended to be a step up from a pistol and was intended for leaders, drivers, weapons crew men and rear eschelon troops. With that in mind and at this low price it represents a real good value. Though obviously appropriate for US troops the M1 carbine was extremely popular as a battlefield pick up by the German army who captured them in large numbers and type classified them. Hence this offering provides a perfect rifle to buy in quantity and use in support of local or national events. A game sponsor could have some on hand to equip early adopters to the sport who aren't sure how serious they are about WW2 airsoft. As loaners the training time is nomenal. The hastle factor of batteries or gas is non existant and spare mags are cheap. As rentals you could recoup your purchase fee quite quickly.
Ultimately I plan to have a half dozen of them on hand. If a similarly priced and equally effective Springer Kar 98 were available we'd really be cooking!
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Nov 9, 2013 14:42:28 GMT -5
well 215 isn't that bad for a k98, it is gas but it's definitely better then none
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 9, 2013 16:03:43 GMT -5
I agree and based on early reports the new gas Kar 98 is a great value. Add a reasonable number of spare magazines and your price jumps considerably. Too expensive for me to buy six to have on hand and lend out as is possible with these cheap carbine springers. that's all I was saying. if the DBoys had a bit more power and didn't have ejecting shells it would be right in line with what is needed.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Nov 9, 2013 16:41:53 GMT -5
eh idk but uh i forgot who but somebody posted a way to top load the k98 so that reduces a need to get extra mags, except for the gasing up bit now if they had co2 mags, that might be better to re-co2 it in the middle of a fight
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Post by volkssturm on Nov 9, 2013 17:46:12 GMT -5
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Nov 9, 2013 19:02:36 GMT -5
They won't be in stock much longer...
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 9, 2013 21:01:59 GMT -5
Yikes! that is well below my cost direct from UKARMS for a carton of 12 which was more than I could justify buying. Unless there is some kink to the offer. (Out of stock, horrendous shipping) I am going to get several more of these myself. It would be fun to have an all springer game just for yuks and giggles. I just ordered a batch of them which I couldn't resist. everything indicates the order went through. Assuming it did andthey arrive Iwill need to get a whole bunch of spare magazines.
This price is silly low for this product. Thanks for the heads up. We have an annual neighborhood Father son airsoft battle the friday after Thanksgiving. this year the theme will be WW2 and I'll actually be able to arm everyone in reasonably authentic weapons and costumes.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 9, 2013 22:25:08 GMT -5
Incidently shipping was cheap as well. I ordered four more of these carbines and another batch of magazines which I will shorten.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 11, 2013 14:39:26 GMT -5
I have been dinking around with the cheap carbines and put a bunch of rounds through them testing the clips that I shortened. The guns continue to impress me. i have not had any missfires and they are fairly accurate. Fun little plinkers. I shot them so much this morning that my palm is sore from cocking them. They can be fired fairly quickly just pulling the charging handle back while keeping the gun shouldered and on target. You can get even more speed using your non firing hand wrapped underneath. A left handed firer would probably have an easier go of it. Many Many years ago I had a Crossman M1 carbine BB gun which cocked by pushing in the barrel. These could be fired very quickly. My early 6mm Marushin gas carbine had a hokey hand grip attached to the front of the charging handle which made for quick shots as well. It might be worth looking into such a system for these although like the Marushin I would want to be able to remove it for display purposes. The attachment would have to be quite robust as the cocking effort is more pronounced on these springers then it was on the gas Marushin.
The old 6mm gas Marushin by the way was an excellent gun and the only gas gun I ever enjoyed and had confidence in. The current CO2 Marushin is not as trustworthy but is a big improvement over the previous GBB Marushin carbines. (6mm and 8mm as I owned both). This cheap springer carbine is in many ways more skirmishable then the GBB carbines but not as good as the original 6mm non blowback which shot super hard and ribbon straight.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Nov 11, 2013 18:30:05 GMT -5
So if we can find one, you'd recommend the NBB?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 11, 2013 19:25:22 GMT -5
For the gas Marushins the NON BLOW BLOWBACK. 6mm was the best of the lot (by far). Other peoples opinion seem to support that as well. It managed GREENGAS just fine and shot at well over 400 FPS. It was extremely accurate with an excellent hop up system and never gave me a lick of problems. I used it alot in skirmishes and it held its own quite nicely with lots of long range eliminations. I had four spare magazines for it. If I'm not mistaken Guiness bought it from me. Because it has been replaced with now three newer iterations and has long since been discontinued you'd be really hard pressed to find one. It would be old and probably a bit long in the tooth. Seals would probably be a bit dried up so no doubt it would require some TLC. The 8mm non blowback I had was disappointing as was the GBB. I got rid of both of them promptly. I bought the new CO2 GBB and it is considerably better then the last couple GBBs. i spent a lot of garage time making a springer carbine which ended up being a bit of a bust. Perhaps thats why I'm so impressed with the cheap springers as they are far better then my own efforts and cost less then my own materials cost for the project. (by a lot!). inspite of how good I think they are I still long for a metal gearbox AEG Carbine.
I did some long distance shooting today. No wind, clear weather and seemingly no one out in the neighborhood. I used neighbors recycle bins as targets and these little springer carbines were able to strike the cans loud enough to hear at 120 feet very consistently. By comparison an upgraded VSR conversion was hitting the next one down at well over 200 feet.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 14, 2013 12:42:39 GMT -5
People PM me whinning about how Flaggrantly Wrong the cheapo carbine is while others sincerely asked my opinion about what is " wrong " about these carbies. Aside from the obvious that THEY ARE SPRINGERS AND HAVE TO BE COCKED EVERYTIME (in many ways this is a plus as it reduces overall rates of fire making for a more authentic WW2 style atmosphere springers are also more predictable and hassle free than AEGs and certainly gas guns which is big plus for loaner/ rental guns). The power is on parr with front line airsoft guns back before the proliferation of Chinese guns. At 328 FPS with decent hop up they are actually better out of the box then the Maruis of old. With that said they don't match the 400 + FPSs of many AEGs and gas guns which have greater rates of fire (by a lot!) Obviously for these to be relevant at an event a move to put most AEGs on limits of semi auto would be essential. THE MAGAZINES ARE LIMITED TO UNDER 25 ROUNDS (in the case of the shortened rounds). I again see this as a plus for authenticity purposes and since the mags are cheap that makes it more acceptable. The mags are hard and slow to reload. (no upside to that, they are a pain).
VISUALLY THEY ARE A BIT OFF Indeed the rifle as it comes is an M2 post war model. It has the end of war rear sight, banana magazine, bayonet lug and a stock shape somewhere between the proper thin stock of early carbines and the pot belly stop introduced at wars end. I personally have no problems with the stock shape as I think it is quite good. The bayonet lug is easily removed and the magazines can fairly easily be cut down. THE STOCK IS PLASTIC. Obviously real wood would be nicer but the look is fairly good and is easy to enhance into a very convincing finish. THE MAG RELEASE IS ON THE WRONG SIDE. Indeed, so what! THERE ARE NO HANDGUARD RIVET HOLES. That is why we have drills. THE HOP UP ROLLER IS HOKEY. Indeed but quite subtle in my opinion. THEY ARE SOLD OUT EVERYWHERE. It's airsoft, they'll get more. WOULD I ACTUALLY SKIRMISH WITH ONE? Certainly not at a LIONCLAWS type event or even the local pick up SPRAY AND PRAY events but I would absolutely use one at a WW2 or Namsofting event. Would they be a fair fight against my ECHO BAR or ICS Garand? Absolutely not but then neither was the real carbine!!!!!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 16, 2013 15:47:33 GMT -5
Got in my additional shipment of four carbines last night and will get to work visually tweaking them to be more appropriate for WW2 events. i noticed all of them in this batch had the internal bolt is black when on all earlier ones they were white. (Interesting?) the bayonet lugg screws do not hold it in place so Im not sure what they do (perhaps snug up the inner barrel?). I will leave them inplace but will simply cut them off while still in place. I will chrono this batch to establish and provide averages and variations and will document with my camera the conversion steps I take and the magazine revisions which I will be doing a whole bunch of!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 22, 2013 15:57:47 GMT -5
Since that post I have purchased more of these and have received now a total of 16 of these and have sold four after having converted them to a more correct early war carbine. The safety and bolt release is correct for a later war carbine as the early war safety was a button that frequently was confused with the mag release causing problems in the field, the butt plate has two drill holes where the actual carbine had one. These indiscretions are trivial to say the least. Of the 16 rifles I have received their performance has been quite consistant although some guns not surprisingly shoot a little harder than others. On average they chrono at 323 FPS with .20 gram BBs, Most all of them required a good barrel swab which ups the FPS average to 328 FPS. Of the 16 guns purchased I just discovered (today in fact). That one doesn't work. It simply won't cock all the way back. I suspect I will need to disassemble it to get it working which is something thus far I haven't attempted other that to remove the outer barrel and upper handguard when doing my paint work. At this price point one failure out of 16 isn't really all that bad. I have converted 24 magazinrs and have another 12 scheduled to complete. I am getting it down to a science but it remains a time consuming project.
Obviously since I keep buying more of them it's clear I remain impressed with them. They reflect far better overall quality then their low price would indicate. The lowest price I have seen is a clearance from Airsoftmegastore of $23.75 each for all black ones. I bought four of the black ones and since I redo the stock finish anyway wasn't concerned with the black stocks which of course are silly. The black ones do require a bit more effort on my part but came out fine following the cosmetic work. Obviously the cost of producing springers is way way less than AEGs and encourages me that at some point some manufacturer is going to offer quality built, decent performance bolt action main battle rifles for the major countries involved in the war. A 400 FPS springer, MAUSER, ENFIELD, SPRINGFIELD and ARISAKA under 60.00 would be fabulous. This carbine tells me that this is more then possible. UKARMS / CYMA. Bravo for this carbine and as for a series of Bolt actions, make it so!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 22, 2013 18:33:30 GMT -5
A simple dissasembly on the rifle that didn't cock fully and while I have absolutely no idea why it was sticking, upon reassembly it is working great. So function is now 16 for 16.
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Post by newcomer on Dec 22, 2013 20:41:02 GMT -5
are these springers compatible with the USGI carbine stocks? or are they radically different in terms of shape?
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Dec 22, 2013 21:42:14 GMT -5
A USGI stock is more than the cost of the gun, I really don't see a point.
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Post by brownien on Dec 22, 2013 21:56:51 GMT -5
The Cyma m1 internals are much wider than a RS carbine
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Post by newcomer on Dec 22, 2013 23:19:51 GMT -5
Ordinarily I would say yes, Shifty, But I managed on a bunch of beater stocks at 5 bucks each. I figured if they were compatible I'd have decent loaner props much like 2nd bat.
Brownien, thanks for the news, I'll just have to find something else to do with those stocks.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 22, 2013 23:29:49 GMT -5
I don't have an actual GI stock at present but recently modified one to accept the internals from a springer shotgun. Based on nothing beyond memory I suspect the mechanicals from one of these could be inserted in a GI stock and handguard but imagind it would require a lot of dremeling and sanding and as mentioned by SHIFTY exceeds reasonable effort given the final outcome.
The shape and overall size of these stock are very very good and with the cosmetic tweaks I do to the plastic they can be made to create very convincing wood effects. Probably the main reason I am so blown away by these is I know how much effort and expense I extended in my endeavor to make an effective springer carbine using real components and parts on hand and my net result after many many hours of work was no where near as good looking, effective or durable and cost me four times what these do.
When you add a real sling, a stock pouch, remove the bayonet lug, shorten the magazine a replace the rear sight they are a very authentic looking carbine. The shape is real real close to a proper WW2 earlywar stock.
Incidently a five dollar carbine stock is a great buy. My concern is odds are these $5.00 bargains are the post war guppy bodies of an M2 and don't include the needed additional parts. Handguard, stock band butt plate etc and those things add up pretty quickly. Obviously if you find you can use the hardware from one of these base CYMAs and could source a cheap matching handguard that would be a different story. If it is a proper WW2 shaped M1 stock it's worth a whole lot more then the $5.00 and you shouldn't tweak it for use on one of these unless its in such horrible shape that no one would want it.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 26, 2014 14:59:24 GMT -5
The price on these spiked pretty coniderably (no doubt the result of them selling well!). They are still a very good buy but are now $40.00 plus everywhere that has them in stock. I purchased 20 of them total, shipped Brownien four of them as loaners, sold four that I modified to full on M1s for $100.00 plus and still have 12 of them in my possession. The most I paid was $74.00 delivered on an ebay purchase and the least was $23.75 for the black ones where I bought a whole carton. Even at $40.00 or so they are a good buy.
Glad I bought a bunch of them when I did as I had a funny feeling they were going to go back up in price. The magazines remain reasonably priced but like the rifles are getting sonewhat hard to source.
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ScottCollins
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Post by ScottCollins on Jan 29, 2014 10:41:45 GMT -5
Yikes! I used some of these at the New York game and was watching a video on them. Look at the inner barrel! youtu.be/y5LJRu_zp8E?t=12m41s We might want to put some tape in there or something if you want a more accurate gun.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Jan 29, 2014 18:10:13 GMT -5
Yeah, that really worried me. Also, if there's any welding globs in the outer barrel, you'll want to sand them flat.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 29, 2014 20:10:07 GMT -5
Having purchased 20 of these there is no question some are better then others but this fellow hit the nail on the head with the obvious (and very simple) fix his rifle required. Obviously the burr is his issue and a wrap or two of tape on the inner barrel up by the muzzle will remedy his outer barrel flex. I looked closely at the 12 carbines I have in my garage and two of them had a burr as did his with one of them effecting the flight of the BB. Obviously he is basing a review on one rifle which on a under $50.00 airsoft gun shouldn't be expected to be fabulous.
With all of these a cleaning patch down the barrel is significant as many of mine had gunk or oil in the barrel such that it effected their performance. On the rifles I sent to Nate for Battle of the Bulge I drenched them in silicon oil for shipping and a couple of them were over saturated. This was particularly an issue in the below freezing weather. I find that with very little TLC these shoot actually very very well. Especially for the low cost.
I'd love to see him do a follow up video in "His garden" after spending five minutes addressing the issues he shared and cleaning his barrel. Also with ANY airsoft gun. Commence your testing with the hop up FULLY OFF and work it UP into a functional ideal state. Otherwise you risk premature wear on the hop up or jamming your gun right out of the box. DUMB DUMB DUMB.
Love his Liverpool accent.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 30, 2014 15:57:44 GMT -5
Today I had time and a wind free day. I took all of my in stock carbines and shot a magazine or two out of each rifle at a garbage can not unlike his bin in the video but much much further away. I am by no means a marksman but at 120 feet away I had no difficulty putting every round into the trash bin. Most within a 12 inch impact. I did have to tweak the hop up and fiddle with that a bit to get consistent shot trajectory but none of the rifles had a side to side bias as did his.
The poor chap obviously got a flawed gun as was one of mine but a few minutes of simple effort and I'm sure his accuracy challenges will go away. As mentioned numerous times this is not going to be ones first choice for a primary skirmish weapon but at its low price point it is very very good. Also sanding the stock with abraisives melts the stock seam he shows to the point that it is nearly eliminated. You can also create a very good looking "wood" finish on these with miniml effort. The rear site assmbly is all metal as is the charging handle and outer and inner barrel and the later rifles Use a black plastic inside the bolt.
Always begin your hop up adjustments with the hop up OFF and slowly work it into adjustment. Though there is some variation from gun to gun, once the barrel has been swabbed these average 328FPS with .20 gram BBs. The hop up does not effectively facilitate heavier Bbs unfortunately as my usual preference is for .25 or .28 for skirmishing. They travle further, hit harder are less effected by wind and penetrate brush more effectively.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 1, 2014 19:44:37 GMT -5
I have received several requests for a step by step tutorial on converting these M2 into reasonable M1s and I remain happy to do so. Just PM me with your direct email and in about 3 or four emails you'll have the complete flow of the project including converting the magazines. It takes several emails as I can only include five pictures per email. To fund further purchases if you are not comfortable or have too little available time to do the conversion I can sell you a completed swap over with three shortened magazines for $135.00 plus shipping. This is less then I sell these on Ebay for and minimally covers me for the materials and time required.
Better still follow the step by step process, save what I charge and do a few for yourself. It's a pleasant project and the end results are cool little guns.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 30, 2014 17:41:38 GMT -5
A review on one of the airsoft site that sells stated that the buyer added an upgraded CYMA spring from an L96 bolt action rifle and an AEG barrel which upped his FPS to lightly over 500 FPS with 20 gram. It certainly is an intriguing concept as 500 FPS gives a springer a little better range and greater likelihood your target will feel the hit. My question of course would be the impact on durability and cocking effort both factors to consider. Since I have a bunch of these and some oddsarts laying about I will pursue the idea and provide more details once done. The prevailing price on these seems to have settled at arounf $45.00 plus shipping. Still really really cheap.
After three events as loaner guns they have performed very well. Predictable and reliable with no problems. This remains for je their greatest appeal and they look and feel great. Incidently the M1 carbine was a very popular captured weapon and was probably the most common allied weapon used by the Germans. They liked it so well and captured it in significant enough numbers that they type classified it!
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 31, 2014 14:48:27 GMT -5
I imagine the sear won't like the 500 fps spring very much
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 31, 2014 16:29:50 GMT -5
I too suspect a stronger spring will quickly cause internal parts to break but we'll see? cheap cheap guns like these are usually not set up for disassembly and upgrades. In truth if I mess with them at all I should simply add an enhanced barrel and do what I can to reduce air loss at each seal. This will typically improve performance without increasing stress on the components. If ultimately I ruin one I will use the body and components to marry an AEP and create a semi auto paratrooper version.
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ScottCollins
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Post by ScottCollins on Apr 3, 2014 22:16:43 GMT -5
Im a bit late to jump in here but from my experiences with this gun its actually VERY sturdy. I slipped over a huge ice field and fell down pretty hard and dropped it on sheer ice. No markings of damage on the gun at all
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