2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 25, 2013 12:57:02 GMT -5
I just finished converting 18 of the CYMA Springer Carbine mags from the M2 carbine "banana clips " they comes with, to the WW2 correct, shorter box magazines. This modification process follows Browniens approach and works well. You will need a small flat head screw driver, a small phillips head screw driver, a straight edge of some kind, a cutting tool (small hobby saw or dremel with fine cutting wheel) and some ABS glue. Instead of a straight edge I use strips of masking tape which allows me to double check my pattern to insure my cut marks are squared and parallel on all sides and serves as a cutting guide.
I took pictures of every step and will post these pictures in a tutorial as soon as I can get them on my photobucket site. In the meantime if you'd like me to send the pictures and tutorial just PM me and give me your direct email. Due to the size of the photo files the process will come in three e-mails.
The process is somewhat time consuming and does require some level of precision (in terms of the cuts and fill and file procedures to insure they work as they should). The tutorial includes tips that I found helpul. The conversions takes what was a 40 round banana magazine down to the WW2 era "15 round box" and they wind up holding and loading 23 rounds or so. These modified magazines come out looking "right" in the carbine, work great and fit perfectly in the two pocket carbine pouches. They are solid and thus far all have proven to work fine. It took me two full days to do these 18 while working around other projects. THIS is ABSOLUTELY NOT something I would care to do for others but I do want to encourage those interested to Do Them up yourself. They really help to enhance the ambiance of these little carbine springers. I will post another pictorial on the step by step approach I took to modify the CYMA M2 carbine to look more like the WW2 variant and how I enhance the pseudo "wood" stock into a more convincing "wood" stock. The finish on the stock looks okay when they come but with a little effort they can really come out looking quite convincing.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 27, 2013 4:43:31 GMT -5
Once you get them modified and functional the cosmetic work is fairly time consuming as you have to smooth out the seam you cut and fill in the now goofy grooves from the shortened banana mags. Then cut in the appropriate verticle grooves and paint them up. Frankly the cosmetic work takes as much time as the conversions. It sure would be cool if UKARMS/ CYMA just did a proper WW2 carbine. Between the rifles and especially the magazines the conversion is quite a bit of work.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Nov 27, 2013 22:22:40 GMT -5
If you find yourself wanting to make a bunch of these like I did. You will find that a hobby saw and small hobby miter box is absolutely the way to go vs a dremel. With the miter box your cuts are precise and perfectly square which is hard if not impossible to do with a dremel. The hobby saws cut through the plastic like butter and leave only tiny burrs with little or no cut melts like you get from a dremel. The even and thin cuts allow for a much tighter fit and far less finish work while producing a nicer looking and stronger end product. I did the last six using this approach and only wish I had started out with this approach.
I ordered a bunch of the two pocket carbine pouches from overseas. I have been shooting the crap out of these cheap little guns in order to test each and everyone one of these shortened clips and I remain very pleased with this product. On the day after Thanksgiving I am hosting our neighborhoods annual Father son airsoft game which I have been putting on for about 12 years. We usually got about 20 to 30 players and I rent out guns, masks and uniforms. I have done several in a WW2 theme but this will be the first time all the weapons will be period reflective as the eight cheap carbines will allow me to do it.
I have been hustling to get these spare magazines finished in time.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 2, 2013 4:27:55 GMT -5
The magazines all performed well with no complaints. Every player that used one of these carbines got four magazines. One in the gun and three spares. Sadly following the event two of the spare mags came up missing and since they each take up a lot of time to make I am really hoping they will turn up in pockets, pouches or somewhere. Most of the mags are fairly uniform in size although there are a few somewhat smaller while a few are somewhat longer. Typically they each hold 23 rounds, give or take. With the limited round capacity and having to cock the guns for each shot the game took on a very different feel then a typical airsoft skirmish. The players seemed to really like the reduced number of BBs flying and the increased re loads as it led to a lot more freedom of movement and made the Machine guns far more significant weapons.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 27, 2013 18:55:47 GMT -5
I have now converted about fourty magazines with another batch of six magazines coming. For the most part these have been built to provide spare magazines for the nine M1 carbines I have converted and are keeping as loaner/ rental weapons. A couple big lessons learned for those tackling the project. Remove the spring first by simply twisting the screw head on the spring guide at the top rear of the magazine. Be mindful that once you twist and release the spring may project the spring guide piece across the room and may get lost. Remove the Six screws holding the mags together side to side. Be careful when you pull them apart you don't lose the small BB guide (spring nipple) Pull the metal rod out. This may be discarded and not used at all. i cut them in half and use them both for weight and added strength. reassemble the two halves with just two screws (i leave out the two center ones as that part is going to be cut out and discarded.) Tighten the two screws you use fully so everything is nice and tight for your cuts.
The use of tape as a saw guide on your still full sized magazines is very helpful. Insure your marks are level and precisely even (90 degrees) so following the cuts your two halves will line up and reattach properly. Cut using the hobby saw. note the hobby saw will dull considerably after fourty magazines! Once cut discard the center piece and remove your tape. Clean up any flashes of plastic and glue the two hlaves together with abs glue. Leave a small gap at the side to side seam so you can still seperate the haves. hold the parts together over night with rubber bands. insure everything is precisely alighned.
Once dry remove your two screws and seperate the SIDE TO SIDE halves so you can insure the inner channels are smooth and wont impede the BB guide as it pushes the BBs. Often burrs or snags may develope from the gluing process. I use a craft knife and if needed a folded sandpaper to smooth out this seam completely. I then place the nipple properly (sliding it up and down the channel to insure it moves freely) if satisfied glue in the weighted rod putting glue only to one side of the magazine so they will always be able to be taken apart. Once this is dry reassemble your side to side halves. (nipple in place). Reattach with a couple screws. Insert your spring and cut off a section equal to double the length of the middle mag section removed.). Thumb squeaze the freshly cut off spring end a bit and slide in your spring guide and push and twist it to hold it in place. test the mag by loading fully (23 to 26 rounds depending on length of your magazine and how much spring you removed) If it works fine insert the other screws and do whatever cosmetic finish work you wish to do, I fill the banana mag channels with a bit of resin paste, allow it to dry and then sand it all smooth. Cut in the correct channels grooves for a early war magazine. Sand a bit further and paint the magazines a semi gloss black.
Doing up these mags as you can see is tine consuming and somewhat precise work. A good project and one that really enhance the overall impression of these cheap carbines. They fit nicely in the carbine pouches and easily slide in and out. As mentioned earlier three per gun is probably all you'll need for skirmishing and five is really more then you're likely to need.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Feb 2, 2014 9:31:11 GMT -5
Silly question I am sure but how long are the mags supposed to end up being? I made the first one and it looks about right according to pics but I'd like to see how far off I am before I do the other 4 I have. I have also taken to gluing in an inside support piece to each side independently to strengthen them side to side. I don't know if it is necessary but it makes me feel better..lol The one I have is about 3.25 inches long.
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Post by volkssturm on Feb 2, 2014 12:33:24 GMT -5
The actual 15 rd. mag measures 3 7/8 inches, including the feed lips.
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Post by CharleyNovember on Feb 2, 2014 12:54:46 GMT -5
I was not including the little bit that sits up top just from flat part top to bottom. I guess I'm in the ballpark though...lol
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 2, 2014 16:06:56 GMT -5
mine varied a bit as my earlier ones were shorter than the last 30 I made. My current ones are 3 5/8th inches long (without the lip). This length seems to work fine visually and they still fit fine in the pouches. With the somewhat longer length they feed 25-26 rounds where my original shorter ones fed 23-24. The seating inside the gun is no doubt different than the maazine in an actual carbine so matching the exact length of an actual magazine may or may not make sense.
I have now done 60 of these and see them in my sleep. I lost one of the little nipple pieces and while I know roughly where it should be can't seem to find it. It's making me crazy.
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Post by volkssturm on Feb 3, 2014 16:40:52 GMT -5
I put my 15 round mag in my carbine and measured it. It extends 2 1/2 inches below the stock. If the state of California is reading this, it's just the outer shell with no innards (can't have 15 round mags in California).
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Post by CharleyNovember on Feb 3, 2014 18:39:45 GMT -5
Excellent gentlemen. Thank you.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 3, 2014 22:00:24 GMT -5
The later ones I made. (the bulk of my production) protrude 2 and 3/4 inches below the gun when inserted so obviously to be absolutely correct I would need to make then 1/4inch shorter. Total length before the feed lip of 3 and 3/8th inches long. Interestingly that means the first ones I made were obviously correct. (lucky guess)
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 18, 2014 12:36:48 GMT -5
I ended up converting slightly more than 100 of these and in the process lost a couple of the critical parts to the recesses of my garage. Inspite of my care in insuring the springs wouldn't shoot out the tiny parts a few losses were inevitable. They continue to all feed well and function flawlessly. They fit in the actual pouches (snugly but they fit). I spent the extra time filling the outer stamped slotting from the banana mags and then once dry cut appropriate shaped grooves with dremel. The end result is not visually perfect but good at a glance.
My thanks to Brownien for the initial effort. (I bought one of his and reverse engineered it).
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 30, 2015 14:23:01 GMT -5
These came up in a clearance sale at Airsoft Megastore being offered rediculously cheap at $1.49 each! On ebay they sell for as much as $14.95! Typically you can find them for under $5.00. Because of the low price I couldn't resist so I bought 20 more of them which I will convert once time permits.
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Post by gearkrieg on Feb 20, 2015 13:58:58 GMT -5
Hey 2nd Bat... would it be too much trouble to ask for a Photo-Log of the process? so we "all-thumbs" who live light years away might try to follow your steps?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 21, 2015 2:07:34 GMT -5
I think unless I'm mistaken there is a tutorial posted by Brownien way back in the early discussion about these CYMA carbines. I used his walk through to make mine. For the purposes of ease of production by others I'll dig up some old process pictures and see if I can't get Dracul to post them for me?
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Feb 21, 2015 12:09:21 GMT -5
More of the good stuff from 2ndBat
Begin by removing the spring and spring guide. Don't let the parts fly out! I use masking tape to mark out my cuts and to insure everything is set up for dead even 90 degree cuts. I use a cheap hobby saw which cuts much much cleaner than a dremel. Seperate the two halves by removing the six screws. Once separated remove the BB nipple guide shown above. be careful not to loose this small piece and before final assembly be sure it freely slides up and down without snagging in the channels. Note the lead weights inside. These can be discarded but I cut them in half and reinsert one half and glue it into place to provide strength and weight to my conversions. With the internals removed I then apply my tape and cut the rounded section out. The two ends glue top to bottom and provide the right length. Use ABS glue which is quite strong. Be sure the side to side halves will still seperate. Cut the spring shorter by the length of the now eliminated channels. Put the nipple in, Sand the inner channel until the little nipple moves freely inside without snagging. screw in your remaining four screw holes. and reinsert your spring and spring guide. Insure function and then I cosmetically redo the outside to correct the outer channels of the banana mags. Once shortened they fit nicely in the carbine pouches and hold 25 or 26 rounds. The speed loader with the angled feed tip is the key to quick loads! The cut seams should be barely visual. I use a thin resin paste to fill in the old outer lots and cut appropriate new ones. Once sanded and finished I paint them a semi gloss black. They look great in the rifle and feed super. Here is one with a replica BC 1000 WW2 radio. Close up in a conversion. Note the redone L peep sight and improved stock finish.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 21, 2015 14:08:47 GMT -5
Once agan thanks Dracul for posting the pictures in support of this DIY project. The precise length of spring cut is not something I've been very scientific about. since I remove about 2 inches from the magazine and the channel "comes and goes" inside the mag I cut off roughly four inches from the length. Be sure the leave the "bunched up" end of the spring as this fits securely with the nipple. A lose end of the spring wants to fight its way past this nipple with tension. Be sure you make a point to squeaze the lose, freshly cut end of the spring pinching it inward to the spring guide at the end. Again so it won't try to fight its way out. If you cut more off the spring your mag capacity will increase but feed consistency and longevity will go down. I am happy with the 25 -26 rounds I get. i find having two or three spare magazines and a speed loader is perfectly acceptable for our purposes.
With a "cock it everytime" springer, if you manage to get off 75 to 100 rounds before getting eliminated you're using great team work or are very very skilled! good luck with this.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Feb 21, 2015 14:37:23 GMT -5
Isn't there a proper measurement out there of where to exactly place the cuts? Like so and so inches from the top and so and so inches from the bottom. I remember seeing it in another thread while ago, but those numbers would be good for those who can't eye these things well.
I'm asking mainly for others' sake. Since, I still absolutely suck at mag shortenings, haha. Seriously though, I tried to shorten Thompson mags once. Out of 4 of them, only one of them worked. Don't know how I messed it up, but if I screwed that up, that means I really suck at these things....
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 22, 2015 14:36:36 GMT -5
The length of your cut probably has nothing to do with your mags failure to feed properly. I find the most common reason for a failure in any modified mag is the spring guide snagging in any left over seam where you made your cut. This tendancy can be reduced greatly by creating a clean, precise 90 degree cut and carefully deburring and smoothing out any internal snags.
The first ones I shortened I used a dremel for the cuts and even with tiny blades it was inpossible to get an exact 90 degree cut or an even, straight line for both surfaces. Even these slightly jagged cuts required a lot of TLC to make work. I can't emphasize enough the value of a hobby saw. These small saws which come with a small miter box helps enormously in guiding an even cut and the blade is so thin and sharp that your cuts are real exact and clean. I think it was an investment of $15.00 but even if you only did a half dozen modified mags it is worth it.
Between all the assorted projects and all the mags I've converted this little tool has been well worth it. I love my dremels but for this project they have their shortcomings.
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Post by insterburger on Feb 22, 2015 15:35:14 GMT -5
I'm glad this came up, I have a couple of these mags I need to do (and a hobby saw/mitre box on the way to do them with!).
2nd Bat, if you find yourself with any mags surplus to your needs, let me know. I could use another one or two and unfortunately missed out on the big sell off.
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Post by volkssturm on Feb 22, 2015 19:33:51 GMT -5
PM me. I snagged a half dozen while they were on sale.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 23, 2015 2:48:37 GMT -5
that sale was epic. it really makes you wonder what the markup for the big retailers must be. On Ebay there is a regular lister who still shows these M2 magazines at $14.95 EACH! The carbines are all over the map but still selling for as much as $55.00 plus shipping.
I had some concerns that these modified clips might lose their function from use and exposure to the elements but thus far they continue to work flawlessly. I take care to never store them loaded and after field use I squirt a little silicon oil in them.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Mar 10, 2015 9:00:55 GMT -5
So, is this what you have been using? Not this specific one, but the tool in general. www.harborfreight.com/miter-box-with-saw-66562.htmlI'm ready to pick this up, some ABS glue, and some painters tape and go to work. How much ABS glue do you think I'll need for about 15 mags?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 10, 2015 13:29:13 GMT -5
It would no doubt work fine but it is about twice as big as the saw I bought. I'll take a picture. For ABS glue get the smallest container you can find and it will be more than enough. Use a stir stick to apply it to both the top cut and bottom cut. Join the two halves double checking to insure they are perfectly alighned. Since you will be seperating the side to side halves, take care not to get the glue on those seams. Odds are once split back into the side to side halves you will need to use an exacto knife or some type of small blade to smooth out some glue residue or burrs from your cuts. I also put some sand paper over the tip of a stir stick and work it up and down the channel floor and walls to insure it is perfectly smooth with no evidence of the newly cut seam.
Maybe we should trade some magazines for breadbags!
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Mar 10, 2015 21:06:40 GMT -5
Thanks. I'll be willing to do a trade, but I want to give mag shortening one last shot.
Though, I'd prefer to trade for a SMLE, haha. I have some money coming to me hopefully soon. I'll really start hitting the fabric stores near me for canvas to make more. I might even order some HBT from ATF and buttons from Hiki, and get some tunics going.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Mar 11, 2015 13:38:26 GMT -5
So, I picked up the miter box and saw today and I got to work. In about 2-3 hours, I got five done. They don't LOOK the best, but they actually WORK. Which is a lot more then what I can hope for. I don't know how they jacked up, but I'm happy with them. I made them a tad shorter, at 3 1/4in. I wanted to make sure they fit into the Garand cartridge belt, and they do! They also consistently feed 20-21 rounds. Except for my last one, which shoots 23 rounds. Not sure what I did different for the last one. But yeah, they look like crap, but they work and fit the era pouches, so I'm happy.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 11, 2015 14:21:05 GMT -5
That's awesome. Glad you got them working. If you ever have the inclination to do so, its a nice touch to put. A thin coat of bondo on the outside to hide the banana clip grooves, sand, cut in a couple era correct grooves and paint. When you do a bunch at once, it's really not terribly time consuming. I try to do 10 or more at once. It also hides your cuts. The miter saw makes the project a lot easier huh?
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Mar 11, 2015 15:49:01 GMT -5
I think I'm good on that. I don't want to get over zealous with this. However, the grooves do line up pretty well. So, it looks "natural", and not the grooves not connecting and looking like they go all over the place.
While I was at the gym just now, I realized why mine cuts weren't perfect, or close to. The saw blade is kind of bent, I guess from being on the shelf forever, with others ones stacked on it, and I used the miter box walls to line up the backs of the mag perfectly. In theory, I should be getting 90 degree cuts, but its slightly off. The problem exists when I line up one cut to one wall, and the other cut to the other one. So, I can hold the mag in place with my left hand. Tomorrow's run, I'll try to do both cuts on the same wall and switching hands. Hopefully getting the same "not-quite 90 degrees" cut on both top and bottom piece.
Sorry if thats complicated and not clear, haha.
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Post by deadcat7382 on Mar 11, 2015 17:55:26 GMT -5
nice work!
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