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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Mar 10, 2014 17:32:45 GMT -5
Well, the most specific I can go is just both teams with (FAR APART) spawns, total respawns, the only way to win is to capture the enemy spawn. I think it'd be more fun than short 15 minute scenarios.
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Post by brownien on Mar 10, 2014 18:38:18 GMT -5
Seems very do-able. I do enjoy the short quick high action skirmishes, but without higher numbers, having longer missions with long term objectives is hard. Take the first missin we did at Battle of the Bulge. Each team pushed each other hard and held their ground, but as soon as one team was mostly downed, the opposing team had free reign to advance and take the objective quickly. I think having each team separate into two or more separate squads would spread the front out and provide support should one squad get downed completely. I think we will have plenty of attendance for this event, so more flowing objectives should be possible. I plan to have a main objective to capture/defend Remagen and the Ludendorf bridge.
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Post by SfcMigs on Mar 10, 2014 19:07:48 GMT -5
I don't think I will set up a warming tent, because I don't think it will be unbearably cold. Last event I had several steel drums that were used as fire pits, and that seemed to keep everyone warm quite well. The camp setup will be different this time around, as the Germans will set up in one town, and the US will have a CP in a different location. I will still have a central meet up location to go over everything between missions. I will also have canned stew, and spam ready for snyone who wants some. Any other rations you guys bring will be supplemental to your personal meal. I will have plenty for all Sounds good.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 10, 2014 23:14:45 GMT -5
If i may recommend that objectives shouldn't be the respawn simply due to the awkwardness that often presents itself as people are entering, in and leaving the respawn area as its under attack. Very un tidy I am afraid. Zombies walking back to respawn is frankly not very milsim from my perspective. I prefer greater use of medic rules or at the very least a combination of both.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Mar 11, 2014 17:33:14 GMT -5
Well, the way to go away with that is to simply "be dead" until the fighting moves away from your immediate area. If realism is strived for, I think the longer 'tacticals" are the way to go. Especially since for each short engagement, we go eat, drink, and talk afterwards. With longer battles, you get the more realistic feel of battle, being longer.
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Post by patrickl29th on Mar 11, 2014 18:59:29 GMT -5
Also milsims have hundreds of people witch they don't need respawns, If we had at least 20 people or more per event I think having no respawns would be fair.
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Post by brownien on Mar 11, 2014 19:13:34 GMT -5
I think an easy medium, would be that respawn scan be captured, but as soon as a respawn location is engaged by enemy fire, it is no longer active. In that case, the "walking dead" would need to move to a respawn location further to the rear. I plan on having one static respawn per team at each's final objective. For the Germans it will be on the far side of the bridge, and for the Americans it will be on the other side, but much further away a few towns away. Once either is captured, the objective is won. These would be the default respawns, and once either is fired on, any dead cannot respawn, until the opposing force is pushed back. Each team will also have mobile respawns that are completely mobile. The same rules as with the default respawn will apply, except if fired upon, these can be evacuated to the rear by a minimum of 100ft, to allow respawning to resume. Only live players may move the respawn markers.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Mar 11, 2014 19:19:48 GMT -5
That's a good idea.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 11, 2014 20:27:29 GMT -5
Thats a good way to remedy the challenges. Brownien, do you have a size 36 (or larger) pair of brown trousers in an among my US loaner stuff? It looks like i'm coming but I will need trousers and I will try to source some reasonable footwear to put under my leggings. If not I'll see what I can do by way of pants.
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Post by brownien on Mar 11, 2014 20:34:07 GMT -5
I think I do! at least I should! And don't worry too much about your boots, as long as they are some kind of earthy color, they should be fine, 10ft rule and all.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 11, 2014 21:17:03 GMT -5
I brought heavy hiking boots in case I got stranded on the drive but even with leggings they won't look right. I should be able to find some 3/4 high roughout leather shoes or some such item cheap at a thrift shop somewhere. Check on the brown pants if you would. I am afraid due to requests at the last event I sent mostly smaller sizes. No problem if you don't have any. I should be able to pick up some decent looking trousers that fit.
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Post by insterburger on Mar 11, 2014 21:30:40 GMT -5
Thats a good way to remedy the challenges. Brownien, do you have a size 36 (or larger) pair of brown trousers in an among my US loaner stuff? It looks like i'm coming but I will need trousers and I will try to source some reasonable footwear to put under my leggings. If not I'll see what I can do by way of pants. I think I have some Korean War era wool trousers that might fit the bill. Will advise.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 11, 2014 21:44:52 GMT -5
Thats what i wore last time and they were great. another thought is for me to do up a civilian look?
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Post by insterburger on Mar 12, 2014 5:56:52 GMT -5
Thats what i wore last time and they were great. another thought is for me to do up a civilian look? How about Lederhosen, a Trachten jacket, and Tyrolean hat? You'd be right at home on the Rhine!... and the sad part is, I actually have that stuff. Maybe we could get you on the German side... take potshots at the GIs with your Jagdgewehr!
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Mar 12, 2014 14:50:01 GMT -5
Oh god, you actually have that stuff? Please bring it, I'll try to get my dad into it, LOL!
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Post by insterburger on Mar 12, 2014 17:07:40 GMT -5
Oh god, you actually have that stuff? Please bring it, I'll try to get my dad into it, LOL! Hopefully we can get your Dad into the Wehrmacht... but that wouldn't preclude a photo op! And 2nd Bat, I do have the Korean pants, I'll pack them along.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Mar 12, 2014 17:41:13 GMT -5
Unfortunately, he said he wont be participating, besides driving us down. Hes got book chapters to write, or articles to translate, so hes gunna use this as "alone time" .
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 12, 2014 17:54:25 GMT -5
You know what I am game for anything.
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Jerry-ADK
Private 1st Class
Unteroffizier, Heeresgruppe Nord-Ost
Posts: 418
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Mar 12, 2014 19:08:37 GMT -5
Unfortunately, he said he wont be participating, besides driving us down. Hes got book chapters to write, or articles to translate, so hes gunna use this as "alone time" . If you guys are staying at my In-laws, which you of course are welcome to he can have the whole basement to himself for his work. Does anyone else need a place to stay for the night?
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Post by SfcMigs on Mar 12, 2014 19:36:42 GMT -5
What's going on up there with the weather? Are you getting slammed? Fortunately, this weekend will be clear.
BTW, anyone have interest in U.S. Wool trousers? I have two pairs that are 31W x 31L and one pair 32W x 35L. All are in good condition.
I paid $20.00 each for them. Just looking to recoup my money. Will do all 3 for $50.00.
If any interest, I'll bring them along. If not, hello EBAY.
Looking forward to seeing old faces and meeting new ones.
Migs
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 12, 2014 21:10:00 GMT -5
I am up in Maine right now in the midst of an ice storm with lots of snow expected tonight. Then its back down to Portsmith New Hampshire for meetings on Friday which is where i'll be driving from.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 13, 2014 21:52:04 GMT -5
Nasty snow all night and much of the day. pretty white nuckle driving up in Maine but supposed to be good over the weekend. When will you be at your inlaws Jerry? Also is there a work detail out at Lashes on Friday? The offer to stay over in warmth and communal crash mode is such a wonderful deal. It was really fun last event and contributed greatly to the opportunity to get to know one another.
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Jerry-ADK
Private 1st Class
Unteroffizier, Heeresgruppe Nord-Ost
Posts: 418
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Mar 13, 2014 22:27:05 GMT -5
Nasty snow all night and much of the day. pretty white nuckle driving up in Maine but supposed to be good over the weekend. When will you be at your inlaws Jerry? Also is there a work detail out at Lashes on Friday? The offer to stay over in warmth and communal crash mode is such a wonderful deal. It was really fun last event and contributed greatly to the opportunity to get to know one another. I'm planning on getting in around 7 tomorrow night. If you get in sooner that's ok, bill and Kathy will be there to greet you.
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Mar 14, 2014 8:24:33 GMT -5
Over the 11 years I have been doing WW2 airsoft with the WW2AA I’ve learned a few things about what works and what doesn’t work so well. I’ve helped host several very successful events and even several total failure events. I’ve been to a great many very successful events and a few that have left a stain on the sport in general.
My point… as I’m sure many of you have probably been in my shoes per say as well…
I see a few of you are having a discussion about scenarios, re-spawns or no re-spawns, realism and game flow in general and I’d like to butt in and give some advice.
I find “short lived” individual scenarios work best when you do not use re-spawns in a way that would cause the fighting to be attritional except for when you require one side to overtake a position! These types of “short lived” individual scenarios plug in small unit tactics and movements on a backdrop of the bigger/wider battle but with real world limited objectives. I’m going to paint you all a quick picture of an event out of my recollection that was very, very successful and one that I had the most fun participating.
German Scenario: “Speaker urgently informs”: Allied paratroopers have been securing river crossings in an effort to prevent reinforcements to our defense of Normandy. The Pegasus river crossing is critical to our resupply route. Our orders are: at 0900 we are to patrol the route and move to secure the bridge against capture or destruction.
German re-spawn rules = no re-spawn! Only medic with random chance cards can bring player hit back into play and only after bandage wound (Medic rules). Once dead, German soldiers are to remain dead on field until fighting moves away from them (use red kill rag) and then fall back to assembly area #1 marked on map!
Allied Scenario: Note allies already landed and grouped in theme of scenario! Also note allies start with bridge under their control! “Speaker informs”: Our objective is the Pegasus Bridge. At 0800 we are to setup ambush at “pre-designated area on map”. Allied re-spawn rules = no re-spawn! Once hit you are to stay dead on field until battle moves away. Then fall back to bridge and begin setting up defensive positions to hold the bridge.
Ok so now you see that the allies are going to ambush the Germans moving to the bridge. The fight will break out and likely the German patrol will be destroyed swiftly if the allies execute well. The next part of the Scenario will be the Germans moving in force to retake the bridge and this is where the spawn rules change in favor of the Germans. Note that the German commander will need to be in on these events from beginning to end and keep all the German players in the dark. He just directs the rules to the players and gives the orders. Anyway… this could get very long winded so I’ll stop here. The idea is… a bit of control over the events in a game and unity of the entire squad to one objective at a time makes for a great game!
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Jerry-ADK
Private 1st Class
Unteroffizier, Heeresgruppe Nord-Ost
Posts: 418
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Mar 14, 2014 8:51:47 GMT -5
Over the 11 years I have been doing WW2 airsoft with the WW2AA I’ve learned a few things about what works and what doesn’t work so well. I’ve helped host several very successful events and even several total failure events. I’ve been to a great many very successful events and a few that have left a stain on the sport in general. My point… as I’m sure many of you have probably been in my shoes per say as well… I see a few of you are having a discussion about scenarios, re-spawns or no re-spawns, realism and game flow in general and I’d like to butt in and give some advice. I find “short lived” individual scenarios work best when you do not use re-spawns in a way that would cause the fighting to be attritional except for when you require one side to overtake a position! These types of “short lived” individual scenarios plug in small unit tactics and movements on a backdrop of the bigger/wider battle but with real world limited objectives. I’m going to paint you all a quick picture of an event out of my recollection that was very, very successful and one that I had the most fun participating. German Scenario: “Speaker urgently informs”: Allied paratroopers have been securing river crossings in an effort to prevent reinforcements to our defense of Normandy. The Pegasus river crossing is critical to our resupply route. Our orders are: at 0900 we are to patrol the route and move to secure the bridge against capture or destruction. German re-spawn rules = no re-spawn! Only medic with random chance cards can bring player hit back into play and only after bandage wound (Medic rules). Once dead, German soldiers are to remain dead on field until fighting moves away from them (use red kill rag) and then fall back to assembly area #1 marked on map! Allied Scenario: Note allies already landed and grouped in theme of scenario! Also note allies start with bridge under their control! “Speaker informs”: Our objective is the Pegasus Bridge. At 0800 we are to setup ambush at “pre-designated area on map”. Allied re-spawn rules = no re-spawn! Once hit you are to stay dead on field until battle moves away. Then fall back to bridge and begin setting up defensive positions to hold the bridge. Ok so now you see that the allies are going to ambush the Germans moving to the bridge. The fight will break out and likely the German patrol will be destroyed swiftly if the allies execute well. The next part of the Scenario will be the Germans moving in force to retake the bridge and this is where the spawn rules change in favor of the Germans. Note that the German commander will need to be in on these events from beginning to end and keep all the German players in the dark. He just directs the rules to the players and gives the orders. Anyway… this could get very long winded so I’ll stop here. The idea is… a bit of control over the events in a game and unity of the entire squad to one objective at a time makes for a great game! All good points. Thanks Raimund. Your insight and experience will be greatly appreciated. I really like the comment about using medic cards. It adds a extra bit of chance to the scenario. How many cards should the medics have? Also i agree, some scripting seems like a important ingredient to help the flow of the scenario move along.
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Mar 14, 2014 9:13:01 GMT -5
This is debatable stuff for sure, but I would say you would want one medic card for each player that medic could potentially help or an even number like 12
The medic cards are recycled mind you anyway.
1/3 of the cards are KIA 1/3 of the cards are minor wounds treatable by small bandage wrap. 1/3 of the cards are critical wounds treatable by very specific and neat pre made bandages.
The medic carries the cards and draws them at random or has the player draw one at random. Then the medic treats as he feels appropriate based on the wound card. For example, if a guy draws a critical wound the medic would have some Critical wound bandage to do with what he wanted: One I saw was a bandage such as an eye wound; that the medic would put on the guy that drew that card. He would have to take off his helmet and put on this eye covering huge bandage that went over the safety glasses and made it harder for him to fight and see. It was sort of like a hat type thing with a drop down bloody eye patch. Another serious wound was a hand wound that you have a guy’s hand wrapped so he can't use it! The serious wounds were disabling in some small way and the light wounds were just a fake bloody bandage over an arm or leg! Anyway… you need a dedicated medic for these game rules to be used.
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Jerry-ADK
Private 1st Class
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Mar 14, 2014 9:23:08 GMT -5
I'm not sure of numbers yet, but if we usually have a dedicated medic. If I get a chance, I will make some medic cards up and look through my EMS bags for old gauze wrap to make bandages. Maybe we will get a chance to employ them. I have 2 ww2 era stretchers I will bring if we want to employ mobile aid stations. They are a nice prop, and one person can move them easily.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 14, 2014 9:24:05 GMT -5
I too am a huge fan of medic rules and use of medic cards with set, clearly defined objectives and tactical blocks. The event flow in a great event progresses logically within a realistic "big picture" and when both commanders know the scope and flow intent the event can seem emmersive throughout for the players. Commanders who play the part well, are credible and in character throughout can make or break the event. With large events (I have done WW2 with over 100 participants) central "command" with communications to both commanders acts as both forces, higherhigher. These events are not about "winning or losing" they are about both sides doing the best they can using sound tactical play given the resources or limitations they have.
Contact is designed to be both predictable and random and players are encouraged to remain in role. " Hit, hit, hit" is discouraged as that is paintball ICKKKY in my book. Zombies walking through a fire fight another big no no. theatrical deaths are more effective and emmersive then "HIT"Hit Hit!" "medic or SANI" is far more satisfying then "Dead man walking" and random wound results on your wound card adds to the fun.
Players should be willing to remain quiet and motionless while the action is going on around them and should be free to go back to a aid station collection point once the action has moved on. Those are just some of my thoughts.
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on Mar 14, 2014 9:38:35 GMT -5
I too am a huge fan of medic rules and use of medic cards with set, clearly defined objectives and tactical blocks. The event flow in a great event progresses logically within a realistic "big picture" and when both commanders know the scope and flow intent the event can seem emmersive throughout for the players. Commanders who play the part well, are credible and in character throughout can make or break the event. With large events (I have done WW2 with over 100 participants) central "command" with communications to both commanders acts as both forces, higherhigher. These events are not about "winning or losing" they are about both sides doing the best they can using sound tactical play given the resources or limitations they have. Contact is designed to be both predictable and random and players are encouraged to remain in role. " Hit, hit, hit" is discouraged as that is paintball ICKKKY in my book. Zombies walking through a fire fight another big no no. theatrical deaths are more effective and emmersive then "HIT"Hit Hit!" "medic or SANI" is far more satisfying then "Dead man walking" and random wound results on your wound card adds to the fun. Players should be willing to remain quiet and motionless while the action is going on around them and should be free to go back to a aid station collection point once the action has moved on. Those are just some of my thoughts. I agree 100% and... For safety I love using Red Kill Rags! Nothing makes me angrier than being shot when lying dead on the ground! It happens even with the RED dead rags... but less often! I hope we as a community can adopt certain behaviors such as what you described above 2ndbat and demonstrate them at events! This year and the following I’ll be more active and able to help out at events. It was a rough three years for me going to school again and etc. But I’m back for another long haul!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 14, 2014 12:27:51 GMT -5
That's awesome, welcome back. The community is finding a uniformity of thought which is nice to see. I have no issue with red kill rags I just hate seeing them being waved as folks walk through a firefight between belligerants. Movement and sound is so distracting and mobile "Dead people" just really piss me off. I want people once hit to provide a nice satisfying "death" and to remain stationary for at least three to five minutes giving an opportunity for the opponent to search the body (a designated pocket). We play so eliminated playersare as discreit as possible. (Within reason). I went to an event once where eliminated players could be recovered by medics but if the flow of the action left them isolated and unrecoverable they waited a set amount of time and then returned to their casualty collection point in E&E mode. Evade and Escape mode. They could again be shot but they couldn't shoot back. This encouraged stealth and alertness and makes "lone wolf" players think twice about that style of play. It also added some "play time" to each mission phase as your return to respawn might be the most intense part of the mission phase.
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