Jerry-ADK
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Unteroffizier, Heeresgruppe Nord-Ost
Posts: 418
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Feb 23, 2014 12:32:55 GMT -5
I tried calling the museum today to inquire about us getting involved but the guy who answered the phone didn't know anything about it. He said to try back during the week and someone would be there to answer my questions. Hopefully this will work out for us to get involved. I will try again tomorrow morning and see if I can get some intel. Any thought on how I should present this?
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Post by aj czarkowski on Feb 23, 2014 12:45:46 GMT -5
I went a couple of years ago I think 2011 and 2012, if some of you guys are going to the airshow I'd go again too. Actually one of my friends still goes every year I'm pretty sure
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Post by padock502pir on Mar 6, 2014 20:30:30 GMT -5
I go every year to this event and now I'm involved in a airborne reenacting group. I'm the companies medic, and it's a very interesting show. Many static displays and many encampments for each faction. I'm not sure how well a airsoft display would work out, it has to do with World War II and is a very touchy subject to some reenactors. If people come in there uniforms and gear, bring some equipment and there guns it may be successful. I would wait and find out what the man form the museum says before quoting me on anything. It's rain or shine so there's always going to be people.
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Post by insterburger on Mar 6, 2014 21:17:09 GMT -5
For the re-enactors who see WWII Airsoft as a "touchy subject," all the more reason to be there. The more they can learn about the direction this hobby is going, the more they will see that what we are doing is not a threat to what they do, neither is it cheesy child's play. We need to let them know that what we are working toward is an evocation of WWII combat that has different strengths and weaknesses to theirs, but is every bit as serious and legitimate, and does not compete with but complements blank-fire re-enacting.
While this hobby is still in the process of "growing up" and becoming more sophisticated, Stitch-Nazi re-enactors need to remember the humble roots of their own hobby, when authenticity standards and tactical realism were horrible by any modern standard. Hopefully if we come correct and act as good ambassadors, we can win some people over. Certainly not everyone, but some.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 6, 2014 22:01:25 GMT -5
Indeed you will never win all of them over but i would say well over half of our local players in the northwest do both BF and airsoft. I am every bit as disinterested in BF as many BF'rs are in airsoft. That doesn't make them (or me) a bad person it just comes down to what provides an emmersive experience for each of us. Eventually i hope airsoft can provide a more auditory experience and perhaps a satisfactory muzzle flash and while it maynot happen in my lifetime it is coming.
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Post by SfcMigs on Mar 7, 2014 22:17:48 GMT -5
Indeed you will never win all of them over but i would say well over half of our local players in the northwest do both BF and airsoft. I am every bit as disinterested in BF as many BF'rs are in airsoft. That doesn't make them (or me) a bad person it just comes down to what provides an emmersive experience for each of us. Eventually i hope airsoft can provide a more auditory experience and perhaps a satisfactory muzzle flash and while it maynot happen in my lifetime it is coming. I'm right there with you John. I have zero interest in BF. I always felt that BF was a combo of camping and playing "Bang, Bang, your dead" When we had the BF unit at my first Day of Days event, the unit CO told me how his unit was not used to "keeping their heads down" as BB's were raining down on them. Most thought it was a more realistic experience minus the gun fire noise, but the fact that an actual projectile was coming at them, was something they were not used to in their game play. I also hope that one day someone will replicate the muzzle flash and noise to make the game even more realistic. I saw the video of the auditory attachment, but it really wouldn't fit in with our WW2 guns with it's current design. One problem that I foresee with that in the future is the more realistic the airsoft guns get, the more problems we may have down the line with Gov. officials lobbying to outlaw our guns. Fine line to walk. And one more thing John, your suppose to live forever.
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Jerry-ADK
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Unteroffizier, Heeresgruppe Nord-Ost
Posts: 418
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Mar 7, 2014 23:21:46 GMT -5
I have sent out an email to the museum, hopefully I'll get a reply soon. I still want to go even if they don't allow us to have a booth.
Coming from the French and Indian war and rev war Reenacting community I see where standing out in the open and shooting at the enemy has its place historically, that's how in centuries past wars were fought, but not in the 20th century. I was watching the vids of the gap events on YouTube and that's what BF guys tend to do. I didnt see too many of them using cover, no need to get those nice kits dirty if the projectiles are not real. But isn't realism what they claim to be striving for?. I have a hard time understanding why there is a allergic reaction to us among some of the BF community. I would think airsoft is a natural extension to WW2 Reenacting because it's a real war game with winners and losers, KIA's and casualties, objectives you can really capture or die trying. The RS weapons are nice to have, and shooting blanks is fun as well, but once you get beyond doing a show for the public, there doesn't seem to be much point to it all. And you've got a dirty gun to clean. I would guess that the resistance to us probably originates in the upper echelon of that hobby. Among those who have made Reenacting a huge part of their identity and who see something new as a threat to the status quo. isn't that how it usually goes? Like I said, I have spent a lot of time around reenactors, I was one of them. They are very passionate about their hobby, just as much as we are about ours. I hope that trying to spread more awareness about how far WW2 airsoft come in the past few years will inspire them to get over it and join the "real" fun.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 8, 2014 1:07:53 GMT -5
The sounds, recoil action, handling of a real firearm, smell of cordite and confidence that standards are met with appearance and gear and the lengths they go to enhance events with tentage, signage, paraphenalia from the time definitely has appeal. The peripheral gear is increasingly present at our events and based on the last five events I've attended I have no qualms about appearance standards aside from me being way too old to be a combatant. The fact that no projectile is present to indicate who specifically is being targeted and the absence of rounds striking trees, the ground and whistling by you (if you're lucky) is the deal breaker for me. Both hobbys have their advantages but the gap in emmersive authenticity has been dramatically narrowed with the improved standards and nothing they can do will change the "bang bang I got you" aspect that I find so unfullfilling. I swear at the BF events I attended the tactical movement and battle action was so deplorable I just wanted to go home. In the heat of close combat I wanted to hurl quarters so the enemy would know who i targeted. Also it would have been cheaper!
Airsoft movement is frankly just as bad when the sides know they are out of range. Just something to be reminded of.
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Post by insterburger on Mar 8, 2014 8:29:49 GMT -5
Airsoft movement is frankly just as bad when the sides know they are out of range. Just something to be reminded of. In the last game my squad got plastered when we "thought" we were out of range. The results were reminder enough for me for a long time. As you say, both BF and airsoft have their compromises from real combat, but since in real combat you die when a 30-06 or 8mm round rips through the tree you're hiding behind and enters your skull, I'm good with that.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 8, 2014 18:06:47 GMT -5
Well said!
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Jerry-ADK
Private 1st Class
Unteroffizier, Heeresgruppe Nord-Ost
Posts: 418
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Post by Jerry-ADK on Mar 8, 2014 22:17:36 GMT -5
Airsoft movement is frankly just as bad when the sides know they are out of range. Just something to be reminded of. In the last game my squad got plastered when we "thought" we were out of range. The results were reminder enough for me for a long time. As you say, both BF and airsoft have their compromises from real combat, but since in real combat you die when a 30-06 or 8mm round rips through the tree you're hiding behind and enters your skull, I'm good with that. Ya, I remember that! Even from 300+ feet a bb to the temple really smarts! It was a Thomson too, believe it or not, thats a hard hitter.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 8, 2014 23:56:47 GMT -5
A great tactic in airsoft is to generate interest from afar with some decoy movement and have an ambush set in the most likely avenue of approach that the enemy might take to flank the spotted force. With typical "ready go", capture the flag or elimination type games you seldom are able achieve the kind of surprise engagements that fluid patrol focused mission can achieve.
Another great tactic is a reverse "L" ambush. Normally an "L" ambush has the shape set up so the kill zone has the ambushed force inside the half box formed by the "L". A reverse box ambush has a small force open up on a larger one with what appears to the larger force to be an exposed flank. The larger force once engaged takes casualties but responds, pinning down the small force and aggressively swings around the obvious flank. As they attack the smaller blocking force from the flank (and slight rear) they are themselves engaged at close range by a force deliberately in place to surprise them. (the long line of the "L" ) When it is unclear which flank might be utilized the formation becomes an upside down "T" with positions selected that can fire from cover in either direction. These tactics are very effective when fighting an aggressive and well trained opponent and will quickly discourage flanking efforts.
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