2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 4, 2014 10:36:30 GMT -5
The bunkers can be shaped so the walls slope inward (as they typically would be) and this would allow you to stack them, both for storage and transport. Hollywood and theaters do amazingly creative effects with foam The D-Day Paintball event in Oklahoma took a portion of the property nd created their Carentan. The owner scrounged a huge number of foam panels and arranged then like partial walls and destroyed structures and then spray coated them in Gunite which is a thin concrete. The look was pretty convincing. Not hollywood perfect but way better then pallet walls. One concern with foam is its highly flammable and quite toxic when burning so a gunite coating is a great idea.
What i love about the foam is transportability. Things could be rearranged in such a way that any given field layout could be changed fairly readily making the field more versatile and fluid. Hence less preductable and as Grahan says boring. With any regular field the friction points become very predictable and consistent and events too often repeat themselves.
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ScottCollins
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Post by ScottCollins on May 4, 2014 11:36:38 GMT -5
That actually sounds like a really good idea! I think we should shoot for that. If we can make a semi "attractive" bombed out village we might be able to draw in quite a few more guys into this hobby!
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Jerry-ADK
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Post by Jerry-ADK on May 4, 2014 12:47:19 GMT -5
Now...we just need a airsoft guy based out of Penn who could scout out a location and a large national event could happen.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 4, 2014 14:13:48 GMT -5
I guess you could say. "If you build it they will come.". One of us needs to win lotto.
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Post by ssgjoe on May 4, 2014 15:12:27 GMT -5
This would take much more work, but if you could make a burnt out tank out of foam too (real tank isn't used cause you don't wanna destroy it). It'll take a little more design, but it might work too.
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ScottCollins
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Post by ScottCollins on May 4, 2014 16:10:16 GMT -5
Of course, we aren't exactly sure what insterburger has planned for the lottery except for a big rig battle arena! Haha!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 4, 2014 17:01:29 GMT -5
A foam shell tank or tank destroyer that could then be coated with a thin layer of fiberglass would not be completely out of the question. Better still make molds and knock out a bunch of them!
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Post by ssgjoe on May 4, 2014 17:34:32 GMT -5
You could do a lot of stuff. A downed plane too, which is comparable to a tank, maybe a bit bigger depending on the model. And to make it easier have half of the fuselage gone.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on May 4, 2014 17:35:08 GMT -5
I would think we would need some hedgerows for any Normandy game. Any ideas, other than real or plastic plants lined up?
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Post by ssgjoe on May 4, 2014 18:30:08 GMT -5
Foam plants.
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Post by ssgjoe on May 4, 2014 18:30:58 GMT -5
Just kidding. I think your best option is real. Then it's plastic, but plastic still isn't great IMHO.
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ScottCollins
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Post by ScottCollins on May 4, 2014 19:50:46 GMT -5
Better yet! Just make the downed plane rc and actually fly it! Lol jk but that would be pretty sweet! 2ndbat, how would one go about getting moldable foam?
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Post by ssgjoe on May 4, 2014 20:07:16 GMT -5
You just make a frame from wood and chicken wire, then you cover it in that home repair foam you use to fix holes in walls.
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ScottCollins
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Post by ScottCollins on May 4, 2014 20:14:39 GMT -5
No, 2B was talking about some sort of mold that you could use over and over
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Post by ssgjoe on May 4, 2014 20:54:49 GMT -5
I see.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 4, 2014 21:48:25 GMT -5
Many many years ago i worked for a small company that made automotive body parts from fiberglass and was amazed at how things were designed and made. Very labor intensive, extremely toxic ( I now know) and quite a lot of money materials wise. Once a mold is created. (something like an armored vehicle would require lots of seperate molds). With a mold and doing all the production the cost of mateials wouldn't be terrible. A final good looking body with stationary treads and a full turret would take about. $2500 to $3,000.00 in materials. I always envisioned doing such a thing such that it could be mounted over a suitable vehicle frame. Fun fantasy of course. There are lots of other far more practical and realistic props that would be cool and frankly within reach.
The OST Front folks built a SDZK 251 Fully functional halftrack. I don't even want to think what that cost but it definitely is way way high on the coolness list. If memory serves they also did a Kublewagon and restored a vintage truck?
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Post by ssgjoe on May 4, 2014 22:42:19 GMT -5
I'm sure one could make a plywood tank too, and paint it. German tanks were blocker than most other tanks, so those would be easiest to do. It would take a considerable skill and time, but it would be cheaper than a foam tank with molds I think. I heard of a college student who made one. It cost him about $2000-$3000, but his was motorized and could fire out of its air cannon. We just need a burnt out one. And if it was easy to disassemble and put together, then it might be more portable than the foam tank.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 4, 2014 22:50:42 GMT -5
Here are some cool thought starters actually from WW2 m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=GSQoinSGrwsOn you tube check out fake or replica tanks. There are people building some incredible things
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on May 9, 2014 8:23:04 GMT -5
I think the spray foam pillboxes have some serious merit to them. I certainly will be investigating further into this as a project for early next year.
So far my group uses fake barb wire garland, which is cheap and super cool looking on any field. We use 2"X4' posts in different configurations. They work really well!!!
We also use saw dust filled trash bags that are packed into burlap sandbags. The shredded cardboard idea is also really good! I love it!
I also agree with the thought that we should use more than one field. Putting on an event, a proper event, is a lot of work! Especially if you are going to do the entire campsite thing! Personally, I love camping out the night before and the night after the game.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 9, 2014 10:45:49 GMT -5
The sawdust filled sandbags work better than the shredded paper as the additional weight causes them to "lay" properly while still not as heavy as sandbags. With shredded paper you need to use the heavier and more durable gloss paper from magazines and brochures and you have to stuff enough of them into the plastic inner bag to generate enough density so they lay authentically. I do mine so they weigh about 4 pounds each. (thats a lot of shredded paper). Once done you can typically create sandbag wall that are four or five layers high while still reasonably stable. I imagine with the sawdust they each weigh about 12-15 pounds each and are no doubt much much more stable than my shredded paper "sandbags"
Incidently for WW2 you want to use burlap bags which are a bit more expensive and far less durable once exposed to the elements then the Vietnam to current green nylon weaved bags. I now have 300 stuffed burlap bags which gives me alot of flexibility in tems of creative applications. They are stacked against a wall in my garage behind my Jeep which is a cool backdrop for "Rebecca" and doesn't take up too much space.
The theatricl barbed wire sounds very cool. Do you have pictures of it? We have used twine strung on the perimeter but it wasn't visually very satisfying.
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on May 9, 2014 11:33:49 GMT -5
I'll get you pictures but here is a quick video of some traps I instructed Omar on how to make. The cool thing with wire traps and fences like these is that you can take them down or put them up quickly. They fit in a large duffle bag and can be taken with you.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 9, 2014 15:23:20 GMT -5
Wow very very nice. Although not a common approach to WW2 airsoft I am an advocate for mission phases that are orchestrated to simulate situational combat. What I mean by that is establish a limited front channalized by strict boundaries. For example you might set up a couple bunkers or pill boxes with wire hazards and a fairly open exposed front. (perhaps have some shallow shell holes in the approach. ). The defenders occupy the defensive line and are typically greatly out numbered or have either no regens or perhaps one. The attackers either greatly outnumber the defenders or have generous regens and more ammo. The defenses though formidable can be minimized with supporting fire and smoke. bangalores can be employed to breech the wire. The attackers can rehearse and plan their assault prior to executing their attack. You can run this same scenario multiple times with dramatically different outcomes as the design should allow for a variety of different attack plans. The event can be in day light or at night.
At night with flares tracers in use it is especially impressive. It can be a road block or bridge crossing. A time limit can be established to encourage the offense to avoid stagnating their assault and victory points can be set up if so desired. A nice regen approach that I have used (at a NAM game) is the attackers die in place hen hit but subsequent waves once they move past the down players automatically regen them. In smoke this becomes a very dramatic scene for the defenders and encourages aggressive offensive action.
Fire and manuever is everything in this type of scenario.
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Post by ssgjoe on May 9, 2014 18:50:26 GMT -5
I found some fake barbed wire at Halloween stores that are affordable and could pass as barbed wire, but they usually only come in 25 foot sections. But they could work nicely as a stand in.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 9, 2014 21:41:52 GMT -5
Out of curiosity what do they want for 100 feet of the fake barbed wire? Obviously a lot more then 100 feet would be needed but I'm just trying to figure out roughly what this investment in props would cost. Cleary creating the kind of ambiance we all want even when extensive sweat equity is extended and cost vigilance is followed is expensive. I think most of us would be willing and able to live with a higher registration fee for events that provide a more emmersive experience.
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Post by ssgjoe on May 10, 2014 16:33:35 GMT -5
Oh we got the barbed wire years ago. But I would guess you could get 100 feet of that stuff for less than thirty bucks.
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Post by Obergefreiter Raimund on May 10, 2014 17:25:46 GMT -5
The barb wire garland can be purchased for 5.50 or less on sale, for an 18' section. I think the math works out to be something like .30 cents a foot! Now remember this prop is reusable for any event! It is durable and can handle the weather. The only thing I would not recommend is leaving it out for weeks on end. It doesn't take much effort to put it up and take it down over a single weekend. You can pre-position the wire post a week or more in advance and just hang the wire the day before or the morning of the event.
Heck, something fun to do is to assign someone the engineer position and incorporate hanging the wire into the event. Anyway... I have three main designs that I highly recommend using and they are all nice and cheap to make.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 10, 2014 19:45:40 GMT -5
Your framed sections looked awesome and would provide much flexibility for events. I find that players in a defensive role actually enjoy setting up their defensive positions and if that included "stringing wire" that would be cool. I have done events where the same defensive location was repeatedly attacked in a rotational basis. There were five platoons and we had two platoons defending with three platoons attacking. At the completion of each combat phase one of the attacking platoons rotated over to the defensive role while one of the defender platoons rotated to offense. This was repeated so everyone experienced both offense and defense at least a couple times. The defenders could arrange their defense however they liked and the attackers could plan and execute their attacks in a variety of ways. In this way each of the skirmishes was unique and there was little repetition. Incidently the offense had three armored vehicles. I wish i had some mobile bunkers, portable but non lethal barbed wire in support of that event.
It was great fun anyway but would have been greatly enhanced. The defenders had five bazooka type nerf weapons that my son made.
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Post by patrickl29th on May 11, 2014 17:42:31 GMT -5
We could use regular barb wire, it will make it more realistic, and I would think people could just hope over the string ones. Also than there will be an actual role for the engineers in airsoft, to use wire cutters and cut them.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on May 11, 2014 18:01:05 GMT -5
So people want to bring vehicles into the hobby, but are scared of getting hurt on barbed wire? That's a bit of hypocricy
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Post by ssgjoe on May 11, 2014 19:34:04 GMT -5
It's cheaper. I think that's what they're getting at. And easier to set up and take down. And more reusable as real barbed wire tends to stiffen up and not roll up as easy.
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