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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on May 25, 2014 22:18:06 GMT -5
Moreso, if youre going to do airborne, at least get the winter gear, such as the m1943s, and don't just have the M42 jump uniforms.
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ScottCollins
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Post by ScottCollins on May 25, 2014 22:30:26 GMT -5
Why should he? I mean if he wants to there's no stopping him. Also I really don't understand your massive dislike of the airborne, its about preference just like the SS or 95th rifles or Iron Brigade and 29th Worchestshire
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on May 25, 2014 22:33:23 GMT -5
Why shouldn't they?
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ScottCollins
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Post by ScottCollins on May 25, 2014 22:35:09 GMT -5
Yeah I meant they. I'm on my phone Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 26, 2014 7:24:40 GMT -5
Indeed lzzah, your wonderful impressions (and i mean that sincerely) are all SS. To follow your line of reasoning we should be admonishing you for not doing Heer. Some people prefer certain "looks" and there is really nothing wrong with that. I like seeing a variety of units depicted even though in reality the presence of fallsimjager, SS, Heer and tankers, airborne troops, rangers and straight leg Infantry was rare.
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Post by insterburger on May 26, 2014 8:59:29 GMT -5
While I do wish there were more line infantry on BOTH sides, I also agree that people are free to choose their own impressions, and agree even more wholeheartedly that whatever gets people into the game is a good thing. Once people play and become hooked, there's a good chance that sometime down the line they'll want to expand their impressions to better reflect a wide range of scenarios.
In our unit we welcome any German impression-- Heer, SS, LW-- but we also encourage our membership to create multiple impressions that can help our force realistically adapt to different scenarios. Our "pie in the sky" is for all members to have at least two of SS, Heer, or LW (including field divisions), so that we can create a homogenous force for whatever the game we're playing calls for. But in the meantime, we are not turning anyone away for having the "wrong" impression. Come one, come all.
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Post by shiftsup on May 26, 2014 9:59:36 GMT -5
My personal wish is that more players would make their 2nd kit the opposing side. It'd sure make balanced games a lot easier. Games go a lot better when it's 10 v. 10 as opposed to 6 v. 14.
It's a good thing when reputable vendors such as ATF decide to sell more affordable quality kits. Not sure the beef with US Airborne kits it about. Airborne or not I'd rather have 10 guys in the field with the same kit than a mixed bag of impressions any day.
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Post by insterburger on May 26, 2014 10:10:06 GMT -5
My personal wish is that more players would make their 2nd kit the opposing side. It'd sure make balanced games a lot easier. Games go a lot better when it's 10 v. 10 as opposed to 6 v. 14. Excellent point. Since Allies have tended to badly outnumber Axis in these parts, I've been putting effort into getting multiple loaner impressions up to speed so that we can always switch people over (we did that at the last game to good effect). Also, I think Nate has quite a bit of Allied loaner gear in case the tide ever turns. And slowly but surely, I'm working on cobbling together a US infantry kit, just in case. But having more options is always better than having fewer. Having the resources to get new players into loaner gear for whatever side needs them the most is the best way to keep games balanced.
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Post by patrickl29th on May 26, 2014 10:19:22 GMT -5
Im just saying there was always cheap gear at AtTheFront before the echo m1942's came out. And the SS wasn't that elite, most divisions had volunteers from different countries, Norway, Estonia and Ukraine ect.
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Post by shiftsup on May 26, 2014 10:28:43 GMT -5
Around here it's the opposite. Axis have had a decent turn out for over a year. Allied side not so much. It used to be the opposite a few years back. That's what made be go out and gather up a German kit. We can usually muster at least 20 guys for a game. But the last game was 6 Allied v. 16 or so Axis. It'd be great if guys that have been around 3+ years would hop the fence for the odd event. This hobby suffers when both sides do not move forward in the same direction.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 26, 2014 13:33:12 GMT -5
Having sets of loaner/ rental gear is absolutely the way to go, both for recruitment and to help even sides. Uneven sides never really bothered me much as the reality of combat is that battles were in fact rarely fair fights. When ever they were, stalemates and static warfare became the norm. Often this is the case with airsoft as well. Fast paced, aggressive warfare is usually only present when one side significantly outnumbers the other. For airsoft (where no one actually dies) it has always been my preference to fight on the badly outnumbered side as it is a target rich environment and far more exciting typically. Regen rules that are deliberately unbalanced helps this as well. More affordable gear and uniforms is a win win any way you look at it.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on May 26, 2014 15:21:31 GMT -5
Nonetheless, infantry stuff can be gotten for waaaaaay cheaper, and IMHO it looks cooler. The SS were hardly elite- that statement holds no truth at all.
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Jerry-ADK
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Post by Jerry-ADK on May 26, 2014 15:37:15 GMT -5
I have parts and pieces of US Infantry gear(my main impression is German). Someday soon I will have a complete Allied impression to use if the need arises. But as said earlier, many in our area have loaner kits so its getting easier to "balance" sides if that is a concern. I think that all the "elite" kits are fun, I myself have a Fallschirmjager kit as well as a Heer one. All I really have to do is change belts, and tunic and I would have a third(SS). Although I have spent well over $1000 dollars on my German kits(I would be scared to actually tally up the total so far!)its great to see the gear coming down in price. It allows us more options on the field and really helps out the hobby. If you look at period photos of the War, you will see that uniformity is not really that normal for both sides. There was quite a mix of things being worn and used on the field especially at the end of WW2. And indeed, towards 1945 even Airborne troops became almost indistinguishable from infantry. But, since we do D-Day scenarios, its good to have a Economy option for peeps who want to get jump sets I suppose.
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Post by luftwelle93 on May 26, 2014 15:39:12 GMT -5
I don't collect SS but if it was anything it would be those smocks.I bet they are good for Autumn conditions.To me the only difference in what Waffen-SS has compared to Heer is the runes and camo.
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Jerry-ADK
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Post by Jerry-ADK on May 26, 2014 16:10:10 GMT -5
Nonetheless, infantry stuff can be gotten for waaaaaay cheaper, and IMHO it looks cooler. The SS were hardly elite- that statement holds no truth at all. You need to please elaborate on the statement that the SS were" hardly elite" Is that personal opinion or what the world thought of them? Because last time I saw or read any history about WW2 the SS were considered "elite" units.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on May 26, 2014 19:15:39 GMT -5
The SS was 75% foreign volunteers from many countries. Yes, the original Leibstandarte was hitler's 'elite" bodyguard, but that is not the Waffen SS. The Waffen SS was formed from the SS-VT, which specifically formed "Das Reich." While a few were considered "elite", they were hardly an elite unit. Given outdated weapons, the Heer always got the good stuff first. They were very hardcore fighters, sometimes even fanatics, but they were hardly an "elite" unit.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on May 26, 2014 19:17:21 GMT -5
IF anyone is to be called "Elite", its the fallschirmjager. Even then, they were hardly elite.
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Post by mastermike95 on May 27, 2014 15:58:14 GMT -5
Honestly if we could get airsofters doing any WW2 impression it would help the hobby. Yesterday I tried selling a ton of used WW2 web gear sets and M42 Paratrooper uniforms for dirt cheap at an airsoft swap meet. I didnt sell one piece of WW2 Gear, besides some 1911 holsters. Even though everyone was complimenting me on my WW2 Airsoft loadout that day, no one really wanted to spend money on setting up a WW2 Airsoft loadout. I dont think we should be picky when it comes to newcomers choosing WW2 impressions.
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Post by luftwelle93 on May 27, 2014 16:13:37 GMT -5
Honestly if we could get airsofters doing any WW2 impression it would help the hobby. Yesterday I tried selling a ton of used WW2 web gear sets and M42 Paratrooper uniforms for dirt cheap at an airsoft swap meet. I didnt sell one piece of WW2 Gear, besides some 1911 holsters. Even though everyone was complimenting me on my WW2 Airsoft loadout that day, no one really wanted to spend money on setting up a WW2 Airsoft loadout. I dont think we should be picky when it comes to newcomers choosing WW2 impressions. True to that.It isn't like modern events where you just buy a tactical vest,M4,and casual clothes.A late-war German impression for me will cost about around under $600 for me.Surprised nobody bought a bunch of your stuff,especially since it was a bargain!
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Jerry-ADK
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Post by Jerry-ADK on May 27, 2014 16:56:12 GMT -5
Honestly if we could get airsofters doing any WW2 impression it would help the hobby. Yesterday I tried selling a ton of used WW2 web gear sets and M42 Paratrooper uniforms for dirt cheap at an airsoft swap meet. I didnt sell one piece of WW2 Gear, besides some 1911 holsters. Even though everyone was complimenting me on my WW2 Airsoft loadout that day, no one really wanted to spend money on setting up a WW2 Airsoft loadout. I dont think we should be picky when it comes to newcomers choosing WW2 impressions. Do you live anywhere near the North East? If we start putting on larger events, and I know we are heading that direction here in the NE, I'd bet you could sell stuff at one of our events.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on May 27, 2014 17:05:05 GMT -5
He lives in SoCal if I remember correctly.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on May 27, 2014 18:26:04 GMT -5
Rather than getting an airborne uniform as your first, why not do what I did, and get a basic infantry uniform first (for me Heer), then get an airborne uniform as a secondary . (although I will admit I sold my Heer stuff looong ago)
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on May 27, 2014 18:31:39 GMT -5
Because some people like the look of the airborne more, and if people come along to tell them to buy more stuff, they may well quit the hobby,
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on May 27, 2014 18:39:03 GMT -5
The ultimate point is that it should not have to do with looks. If its just looks, it might as well be modern airsoft with ww2 gear. It should be about true interest in the unit. Moreso, if youre going to portray a unit like the 101st, you should have FULL gear, including m1943s, etc.
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Post by mastermike95 on May 27, 2014 19:14:49 GMT -5
The ultimate point is that it should not have to do with looks. If its just looks, it might as well be modern airsoft with ww2 gear. It should be about true interest in the unit. Moreso, if youre going to portray a unit like the 101st, you should have FULL gear, including m1943s, etc. I have to disagree with that. If we want to grow the sport, I dont think we should force anyone into buying every uniform worn by a particular unit. It would be better if you based your unit around D-Day for example, since its most peoples' favorite operation. If I were to a start a WW2 Airsoft unit, I would have the team portray USMC infantry or USGI Normandy. I would tell them to buy an ATF Summer m41, any type of OD Pants, repro leggings worn with brown leather shoes or desert boots, and any M1 Helmet. Of course it will look f.a.r.by at first, but overtime you can help newcomers improve their impressions. An impression like that should only cost somewhere in the $100 range. I live in SoCal where modern airsoft is extremely popular. It's hard around here to get new guys to join the hobby. Most assume WW2 impressions are too expensive.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on May 27, 2014 19:24:10 GMT -5
Well let's of people need to test the water first and don't want to go all in on a kit. For me for example, I had such a Flaggrantly Wrong "US" (I just had surplus od's and a m1 liner lol) but after derping about I finally decided on a kit and now, I am the rare and rather unusable(At least unfarbly) IJA guy in florida =P
One thing people have trouble with, or at least I did, was staying consistently with getting a specific kit bits. I kept trying to do more then one kit at the same time and then I released that I was getting anything accomplished so I finally went all in with ONE kit.
To anybody out there that wants to do multiple kits, my advice is do ONE at a time. If you try to do multiple kit's at once you will either take forever to accomplish one of them or never get anywhere
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on May 27, 2014 19:26:12 GMT -5
People should be pushed to buy the basic infantry kit first, THEN go with airborne if they have left over $$$ or really want to.
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on May 27, 2014 19:38:24 GMT -5
That should be recommended, but anything that gets new people into our hobby I see as a good thing. Let them get their feet wet with airborne, and if they like it, then you push them for infantry. People will like it if it's pretty open and welcoming when they join. Look at 2nd Bat's games. He made a bunch of tacticool junkies that they like less plastic flying around and more emphasis on tactics. If you force people, they will dig in and shut us out.
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ScottCollins
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Post by ScottCollins on May 27, 2014 19:58:39 GMT -5
Exactly as shifty says, don't push anybody to do anything or else they'll get tired of the nagging and eventually quit. Our current goal is to expand the hobby and most of all, to have fun! That's what all hobbies are about! Does it truly matter who has what impression? I mean we looked like a bunch of random dudes got separated from their unit and formed a new one at the January game but we had a heck of a time!
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Post by insterburger on May 27, 2014 20:20:22 GMT -5
This discussion is kind of starting to go around in circles. Both sides make good points. Yes, it would be ideal if everyone came into this hobby with a mature approach that is all about the history. Likewise, it would be awesome if everyone put realism first. But the main thing has to be growing the hobby, which means, first and foremost, being WELCOMING. Incomplete kit? No problem! An impression with a hodge podge of equipment? Welcome aboard! First you need to get people on the field. Then get them hooked on the game. Then make them part of the team. Over time, a little truly friendly encouragement as to where they can improve their impression will go a long way, and they'll start to notice on their own where things need fixing (who doesn't look back on the first impression they fielded without at least SOMETHING they'd have done better?). But the main thing has to be bringing in players.
It's like old time preachers used to say-- get 'em into the pews first, then worry about teaching them religion. You can't save a soul that's somewhere else.
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