2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 6, 2014 14:53:55 GMT -5
Okay, after staring at my armory of 18 CYMA M1 Carbines I have decided a little variation is needed. I love these cheap little guns as you know and have now bought over two dozen of them. I modified most of mine to reflect an M1 Carbine with tweaks discussed elsewhere here in the forum and by shortening the magazines. They come out great and have served me well as loaner and rental guns. In three events they have paid for themselves and all are still soldiering on. (A few broken front sites and assorted other minor cosmetic damage but all easily repaired and all working like new.). I had one that I put a stronger spring in which eventually failed but that was expected.
I sold quite a few of the M2 to M1 conversions and some of the shortened clips as well as some of the take off items which have further made these something I could inventory and afford to have on hand. I mixed up the stock finishes and level of simulated aging so each rifle has its own personality. Even at that, following the last big event I thought about what I might do to carry some of the conversions even farther and I decided an M1A1 paratrooper configuration would be cool. During the war the carbines were produced in huge numbers. Their production numbers were on parr (in fact slightly higher) than the M1 Garand. They were widely issued to rear eschelon troops as their small size made them a nice compromise between a pistol and a rifle. Their ammunition was in between as well. They were 30 Caliber like the BAR, 1903, US Machine gun and M1 Garand but a smaller less powerful cartridge. Range was quite good out to 200 meters and while no where near the stopping power of a 30:06 round, make no mistake, they put a hurt on someone and were far more capable than the pistol they were designed to replace.
In Infantry units the Garand was the primary weapon in the ranks but officers, some NCOs and crew served weapons members were to be armed with carbines. Mortarmen, drivers, radio operators, assistant machine gunners, bazookamen, MPs, runners, scouts, etc would typically be armed with a carbine. For Airborne troopers a version with a folding stock was created. Not all paratroopers with carbines received the M1A1 as many received carbines with full stocks. Also, the folding stock M1A1 found its way into regular troops armories as well! The M1A1 main wooden stock ended at the back of the receiver group. In place of the rear, wood stock a stubby pistol grip was added and attached to it was a wire framed stock that gathered in the center for rigidity and had a folding thin butt plate. The center gather point held the oiler and frequently formed a nice saddle for a two pocket spare magazine pouch. The stock was slightly off center toward the right for the predominently right handed shooters and hinged slightly behind the receiver group and into the base of the pistol grip. The bend off center allowed it to be folded along the left side of the rifle and made an already small weapon even more compact. With its even lighter weight and portability it was extremely popular with troops, especially airborne troopers where every ounce of weight really counted.
I carefully examined resource material about the M1A1 and stepped through as many detailed pictures as I could. (Google images are great in this regard.) I created a template on a piece of white foam board to get an idea on size and shapes needed. I bought some thin guage steel rod (perhaps four times thicker than the rod in a hanger) I Looked at scraps of ABS plastic that I had and some scraps of leather that I will wrap around the cheek pad brace. I found some suitable small blocks of wood that I will be able to shape Into the pistol grips. Other than the rod which was $2.77 I had on hand everything else I needed.
I selected two of my carbines for the project. I sawed off the plastic faux wood rear stocks using a hack saw just behind the stock screw behind the receiver group. (perhaps an inch?) The CYMa carbines have extensive lead or steel rod weights in their rear stock but only minor structural metal to cut through at the point of the cut. I removed the two long rods and one thin rod from these throw away plastic bits as weighted rods are something I often find use for.
With the two stocks hacked off I am now past the point of no return and am now committed to completing this project. I will keep everyone posted on how they turn out!
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Dec 6, 2014 15:07:30 GMT -5
If you need help uploading pictures. Just e-mail them to me and I'll get them posted for you.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 6, 2014 15:39:15 GMT -5
Thanks. I will no doubt take you up on that! I wish I were as modivated at learning how to do those things as I am fiddling with these airsoft rifles!
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Dec 6, 2014 16:35:57 GMT -5
Cool! I was just wondering the other day if this would be possible. Can't wait to see how they turn out!
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ScottCollins
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Post by ScottCollins on Dec 6, 2014 20:13:39 GMT -5
Im actually in the process of making a full wood stock for one of there right now! Can't wait to see how yours turned out!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 8, 2014 19:56:56 GMT -5
Not much to see at this point but you get the idea. several people have asked if these CYMA carbines are worth the effort.That is entirely your call. Obviously I think they are. In my opinion they certainly wont justify adding an actual or even replica M1A1 stock but what I'm exploring will be around a $10.00 expense to an already inexpensive gun. lots of sweat equity and some time and skill involved but hopefully not too much.
I am going to cut lots of detailed authenticity corners as the actual folding stocks were quite intricately designed but there will be no mistaking what the gun is replicating and it should work fine for airsoft purposes where we aren't jumping out of airplanes, managing recoil and fighting a real war.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 30, 2014 2:16:41 GMT -5
The metal rods I bought for use in the rear folding stocks have proven to be much harder to bend and shape than I had expected. The pistol grip was relatively simple to fabricate from a combination of wood and resin paste. To insure It is solidly mounted I drilled and inserted three screws which extend down from the carbine stock. I then hollowed out the pistol grip so the screw ends would extend into the hole created and then filled the hole with resin paste an slapped the pistol grip into place. ba da bing ba da boom...solid as a rock!
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Post by insterburger on Dec 30, 2014 8:43:34 GMT -5
Looks like fun. What I'd love to do is take the stock, barrel, etc. and fit a nice AEG gearbox to it. With the pistol grip that could be theoretically feasible (even if the angle would be off), albeit fraught with technical issues.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Dec 30, 2014 12:57:33 GMT -5
The carbine remains so tiny that the only gear box that might work is a Scorpian AEP and I know Brownian ran into quite a few issues with that. from there you have to deal with adapting the magazine without feeding issues. If I were going to attempt it a real stock would be the way to go although lots of parts could be gleaned from these rifles.
The WELL semi auto carbine obviously uses an AEP set up as its power is right in line with them at 260 FPs or so (.20 gram). the demensions are quite bulbous and "off" although with some cosmetic tweaking you can make them "passable". I have done a couple of them. The biggest distraction is the horribly oversized High Cap magazine which I made the tragic mistake of trying to shorten a bit. (I cut too much and ruined the mag). Alas there are NO replacements sold by anyone. Spare mags simply dont exist.
The WELL carbine in addition to lacking authentic visual detail is quite sloppy with regard to performance. LOW Power, virtually non functioning hop up and a barrel that produces all over the map inaccuracy. Truth be told it produces quite authentic performance for a carbine relative to say my ICS Garand. Or the range and accuracy of my BAR 10 conversions.
A well scorpian and certainly a Marui AEG gearbox would no doubt out perform the WELL carbine but with lots of work. These CYMA springers are much much more consistent, predictable and powerful and of course look way way better.
For me these cock them everytime carbines really fill in the gaps for bolt action rifles in terms of firepower. At Losheim gap the gameplay was extremely authentic even with the untrained walk on players I had. 3/5ths of the weapons were semi auto which put a tactical premium on the full auto machine guns. They therefore were positioned and manuevered instictively in very authentic ways and always with a backup gunnerprepared to "take over" the gun. With most of the players having to cock each time. There was lots of quick dashes, calls for cover fire and fire discipline with reloading and ammo distribution. All very cool in my book. Leaders were concerned with deployment and adaptation to enemy moves and missions.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 27, 2015 12:35:25 GMT -5
Work sent me on the road for a few weeks and got me off track on this and other projects. i was home this weekend and got the wire folding stocks fabricated for the two M1A1s I am building. On my first I did the rear stock shape and center brace from memory and both are slightly off. My second effort is closer to an original. I discovered that when bending the wire frame the resulting bends visual enlarge the shape so my advice is plan to create the wire stock smaller than you think it should be and it will probably be about right.
I still have the final detail work on both of them. (sanding and staining) but both are 90% finished. i wasn't sure if I was going to build them so they actually functioned as folding stocks but that was actually easier to create than I thought. I 'll see if Dracul or someone can post some updated pictures for me. This has been harder than I anticipated (these things always are) but they have been fun projects and I think the end result will be even better than I had expected.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Jan 27, 2015 17:38:38 GMT -5
I'm uploading pics for 2ndBat once again. I will go back and fix the old images as well since my old image posting methods didn't prove to last in the long run. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ this shows the cut needed general shape created below. note the L shaped rear peep site and shortened mag. i stuck in a dowel and plastered dyno glass to provide shape. second one I cut a more proper piece of wood and either way sanded and shaped to an appropriate look. Wire frame shaped and installed From here I have to create the caps over the wire frame attachment points and create a center brace that will hold an oiler and be wrapped in leather as a cheek pad. For one of my M1A1s I will install a two pocket mag pouch at the stock neck. I discovered that the bends exaggerate the size so I determined that the shape should be deliberately made too small so it will end up more correct. At the attachment points I drilled holes in the stock and pistol grip and bent the wire 90 degrees to the side for about a half inch and then 90 degrees straight up or down with about a 1 1/2 inch length that slid into the mounting holes. This allows the wire stock to fold and fit alongside the stock as it should. i also will fabricate a rear butt plate that folds and then detail and stain appropriately.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 28, 2015 0:02:01 GMT -5
Thanks to Dracul for posting these additional photos. When I get home for the weekend I will try to finish these up and have Dracul share pictures of how they end up. the final detailing and finish work is always my favorite part so I'm looking forward to getting them done. The wire frame stock is solid and folds nicely. The actual M1A1 had the rear sling hardware attached to the base of the pistol grip and I'm hoping I have some reasonably close, suitable hardware laying around. I don't frankly trust the wire stocks as solid enough to attach the sling to as these will be loaners/ rental guns which tend to get handled fairly rough.
The upper area above the wire frame (behind the receiver group) had a metal cap which I will need to fabricate.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 29, 2015 13:31:33 GMT -5
There are probably three more application, drying and sanding phases on the resin work before I will be able to do the final staining and detail work but I am pleased with how these are coming along. Glad I did two at once as many of the steps require almost the same amount of time to do two as it would be to do one! Who knows I may decide to do a few more for my use as this variation of the carbine looks cool and adds nicely to an airborne impression or display. The labor effort is extensive but materials costs are quite minimal. With the base rifles and mags so cheap this complete project with three mags (As a Do It Yourself) could be under $50.00 with stains and materials left to do a few more!
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Jan 30, 2015 16:12:11 GMT -5
More from 2ndBat!
It looks like I have taken a few steps backward but in fact I have added the "caps" to the folding wire stock mounting points. I placed shaped pieces of ABS over the mounting points and slopped dyna grass on to provide shape and strength. I also put another layer of dyna glass to fill the inevitable fissures and holes that pop up from sanding. this picture (below) shows the folding channels. This pictures shows the stock folded. The butt plate becomes a foregrip! I need from here to sand, add leather to the cheek pads and do my final finish work and finally add my stain and artificial aging. I hate showing in progress pictures as the replicas during these stages look horrible but I want potential builders to be okay with that and not feel like giving up. From their current state they are about three hours of labor and some drying time from being done where I expect them to come out looking pretty good. Final finish pictures to follow!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 30, 2015 17:54:27 GMT -5
Once again thanks Dracul for posting these pictures. I hope to have them done before the Super Bowl on Sunday. GO HAWKS!
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efrimann
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Post by efrimann on Jan 30, 2015 22:07:44 GMT -5
You guys are are really pushing the envelope with your M1 Carbine springers.
Latest news from me:
Collection growing, just got a Marushin 8mm Garand, big thing. MP40 and Stg44 to be stripped of paint and getting a more realistic reblue, Smith & Wesson waiting for lanyard ring, cheap P38 for color and patina tests done, Browning HIPOWER ready to be finished. M12 trenchgun waiting for paint and rubber bayonet.
Sketchup plans 1:1 size for Vickers .303, Maxim 1910, MG34, Bren MkII, Nambu Type96 LMG, G43, FG42, Lanchester MkI, MP28 and others, plus starting research on field gear and uniforms - and where to buy what in Europe - well underway on a new reference home page I am building.
Nice to see how many has logged on the last 24 hours. Well, happy new year if I missed it. 2015 is well underway.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Jan 30, 2015 23:16:58 GMT -5
Thats a lot of sketches, when might we see those haha
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Post by brownien on Jan 31, 2015 0:56:29 GMT -5
Not to get off topic, but what was that Smith & Wesson you mentioned?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 31, 2015 1:54:48 GMT -5
Got my carbines sanded appropriately and applied a layer of yellow ochre acrylic paint to the stocks. Once dry I will overcoat in both a walnut and black wash and once that drys I will paint all the metal bits to simulate a convincing parkerized finish. hopefully they will be done tomorrow! The plan is to do one in a lighter wood finish and the other a darker finish. I am going to mount one with a two pocket pouch and the other exposing the leather cheek pad and oiler.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Jan 31, 2015 2:08:57 GMT -5
quick question 2nd bat, where did you get your butt plate from?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 31, 2015 3:40:21 GMT -5
The butt plates were simply the CYMA butt plates removed from the carbines used and with a groove cut into the top and bottom it fit onto the wire stock end. I then put some wax on the wire, slopped dyna glass into the back side, shaped them a bit, let them dry and once hardened bent and twisted them The underside could be creatively sculpted to look more authentic for an M1A1 but frankly I dont think I will bother. I wasn't sure how solid this approach would be but by all intial indications it seems that they should be fine.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Jan 31, 2015 10:50:41 GMT -5
Another set of info from 2ndBat:
I finished the sanding, cleaned everything up and applied a coat a yellow ochre, acrylic paint The paint is applied so the paint creates a subtle wood like grain. Note that the grain is horizontal on the main stock and verticle on the pistol grip. I cut a piece of brown leather for the cheek pad which will be glued into place (shoe goo) and then firmly secured into place with a bunch of spring clasps. I used an identically shaped piece of ABS so the leather would be clamped tight and completely flat Tomorrow I will do an overcoat of expresso brown and a wash of black and this should create the "wood effect " I want. I will then mask off and paint all the metal in a simulated parkerized finish. Once completely satisfied I will overspray everything (except the leather)with a clear dull coat overspray, add the sling and consider it done!
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Post by insterburger on Jan 31, 2015 11:33:09 GMT -5
Just awesome.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 31, 2015 12:01:30 GMT -5
The Ochre Yellow paint should be dry enough today to rub on the overwash of black which fills in the grain lines and then an additional overwash of walnut acrylic (this can be found at craft shops) While that is drying I will get something to simulate rivets and an oiler for the cheek pads and install them. Depending on how these turn out I may decide to convert a few more just to further mix up my carbine armory.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Jan 31, 2015 17:09:25 GMT -5
Here are some finished pics from 2ndBat, looking extremely good!
I couldn't resist, on the way for coffee there was a large group of ELK including some nice Bulls just outside the neighborhood! M1A1 with the leather cheek pad. Left side. My cheek pad and rear stock are slightly bigger than they should be. M1A1 with sling and two pocket pouch on my Jeep. There are certainly things I can improve on subsequent efforts but I am quite pleased with how these came out. With these posted I can close out the thread and sticky it!
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 31, 2015 17:28:04 GMT -5
Thanks Dracul for posting the pictures on my behalf. This was by far the least expensive conversion project I have done since the base gun and materials needed are minimal. With an outlay of under $50.00 some time, energy and sweat equity can produce fairly impressive results. I hope this thread encourages other similar efforts.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 20, 2015 13:49:29 GMT -5
I am home for a few weeks so I am working on installing some modified wood stocks on a couple of my old recruit edition Garands (Volks sent me one partially inletted and I had another in progress that went to the back burner. They are so close to fitting and I just need to motivate myself to do the work. I am also building a couple more M1A1 paracarbines. The change to approach this time is more wood and less dyna paste and smaller wire folding stocks. By exaggerating how small the bends needed to be they came out just right. My first two were somewhat oversized as perhaps you could see in the pictures. I bought a sufficiently large block of wood to make a couple proper sized hand grips although they will take quite a bit of work to shape and mount.
The bulk of the weight in these CYMA carbines come from lead weights in the butt stock which of course get removed so this time I plan to add a couple bars in the main stock area as the weight provides a nice feel to these carbines.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 12, 2015 21:00:43 GMT -5
This weekend I did two more M1A1 carbines and these came out the best of any of them. Having several mixed in with my large inventory of carbines provides some variety and really make for some nice props. I kept one of my Carbines as an M2 which is a great Korean War or Vietnam War prop. In converting the M2s into WW2 era Replicas it is impossible to make them 100% correct and I keep discovering new subtle differences. i will start a new thread on what those differences are.
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Dracul
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Post by Dracul on Mar 20, 2015 16:33:57 GMT -5
2ndBat finished two more!
I just finished these two M1A1 conversions so now have four in the inventroy. Note the wire rear stocks are smaller than my initial builds and I have added an "oiler". my pistol grips are more wood and less resin paste which actually made the builds quicker and easier. Without so many layered repetition. My daughter had some perfect leather patches that worked out perfectly on the home made wire stocks. The dyna glass blended nicely through the back of the cut down stock and with the handguards and create a nice effect. the pistol grip sling hardware was simply using some sling bits I had laying around that seemed well suited for this project. 2nd Bat
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