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Post by mastermike95 on Jan 8, 2015 23:32:19 GMT -5
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Jan 9, 2015 15:34:16 GMT -5
Finally! That the muzzle velocity and inner barrel length are 'TBA' is worrying though.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Jan 9, 2015 16:44:23 GMT -5
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Post by volkssturm on Jan 9, 2015 18:01:49 GMT -5
20 round mag. That's not going to be a selling point.
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Post by combatsportsupply on Jan 9, 2015 19:10:45 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 9, 2015 20:16:00 GMT -5
Just flew into Boise to check this out first hand. (Good fortune had me there on a business trip). As you know I have been waiting forever for this gun to finally be produced and imported. The GnG was discussed well before the ICS so my question was why the significantly longer delay for introduction? that will remain a mystery for now. The introduction of a factory built M1 Garand AEG has been something I have hoped for for literally a dozen years. To fill the void I produced pseudo Garands by marrying M14s with Garand hardware but this was always a compromise stop gap, "strictly from hunger" as they said in WW2.
The ICS was impressive and I was first in line to buy it. It is a great shooter and for me has been reliable and solidly built. There were a few visual distractions on the ICS that I found reasonably easy to cosmetically modify to a point of (My) satisfaction. Not everyone is quite so forgiving. The Gas assembly is oversized with a pronounced gap between the barrel and lower gas tube. The butt plate was cartoon character big and the sling hardware oversized. The wood was quite nice but a bit light in shade for most military M1 Garands. all of these can be tweaked but some people don't feel a $400.00 gun should have any significnt infidelities.
I have been delighted with mine.
with all that said, what were my impressions of the GnG Garand? the nice folks at Combat Sport Supply were kind enough to let me examine and handle it closely and I have to say. assuming it proves durable, accurate and powerful it absolutely will have been worth the wait. It is demensionally far more correct than the ICS. The butt plate is SLIGHTLY oversized as is the gas assembly but only by micrometers. The sling hardware like the ICS is oversized as well. No idea why but an easy easy fix and scarcely anything most would notice. The wood is richly grined and an authentically dark walnut/ redwood finish.
The gun just looks and feels great. The 20 round clip proved to be somewhat awkward to load although a flip of the bolt release pops it right out. the rep at Combat Sports Supply has owned his since they arrived and clearly showed that once you get the knack its a simple flow. Just like a real Garand. I am impressed with this offering and the great folks at Combat Sports Supply.
i doubt these will be a high volume item so if you want one I would recommend you act while they are in stock.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Jan 9, 2015 20:27:08 GMT -5
Here's hoping they continue production. My friend was talking to a ICS rep a while ago who left the job or what have you and said their biggest issue was getting the teams to talk to each other. For ICS they have an internals team(Or teams I don't remember) and a team that works on externals. Essentially, one would do their part without telling the other and neither would seem to budge hence the end product was kind of weird externally. Also, he apparently said the ICS owner still wants to make an 8mm version for some reason. Anyways, that's my best guess for why it took g&g so long although there should be no excuse for it as they already could have used their m14 GB's and built around it to some extent.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 10, 2015 1:11:31 GMT -5
The GnG apparently experienced a lot of debate and experimentation with assorted magazines and had to arrange tooling and supply for the wooden furniture which ultimately appears very well done. I couldn't comprehend why a relatively small and obscure airsoft retailer in Boise Idaho would be the first folks in the country to get their hans on them but apparently they bugged the heck out of their distributor with daily prodding and they sent them the initial batch to shut them up.
This store is really dedicated to historical airsoft both WW2 and Vietnam and are ardent supporters of our hobby. i was really impressed with the store and the team representing them.
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Post by volkssturm on Jan 10, 2015 1:22:12 GMT -5
How close to the ICS clip is this one? Could they be modified to work in the GnG?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 10, 2015 14:50:23 GMT -5
The clips are totally and completely different between the ICS and the GnG. The only similarity is the base which in both cases simulates the trigger housing/ magazine plate on a Garand. Both are too large to fit in the Garand belt pouches which is understandable but unfortunate. Ironically on the ICS (at least mine) the clips are difficult to remove when empty but very easy to stick in when reloading.
The GnG uses the bolt release button to "pop" the magazine out which is quite slick. Putting the fresh clip in proved difficult as the slide in channel is not intuitive. 2ndArmored there at Combat Sport Supply bought the very first GnG for his own personal use and has been fiddling with his quite a lot and with practice has gotten quite good at it. the trick is to align it precisely right and press the bolt release in as you insert it. This is a somewhat awkward process that I did not do enough to get the knack of. watching him do it well reminded me of watching a trained WW2 Infantryman load a Garand (albeit from the bottom instead of the top) and I thought it was pretty cool that a little skill was needed. Relative to inserting an actual Garand enblock clip its pretty in sync in terms of effort and how much repetition one would no doubt need to establish. With a 20 round clip I forgot to ask what actual feed capacity was as typically you lose two to three BBs due to the gap between the magazine and the tappet plate inside the gun.
I am a fan of realistic reloads as it promotes team work and realism and causes one to further respect the dynamics of a crew served Machine gun. In a perfect WW2 airsoft world I am not promoting exact 1:1 mag capacity as your contact ranges are much abbreviated from a real engagement and BBs are too easily unfelt or deflected by brush but I do find that 3:1 for gameplay, effectively mitigates that. Hence for a Garand 24 feedable rounds per reload would be idea and 60 rounds for a BAR or Thompson. The days of implementing such restrictions will probably never come but the ICS and GnG by design force this simulation which could potentially be very cool.
I am extremely hopefull that the GnG will prove reliable and based on the two GnG M14s I owned I have little doubt they will. The replica is on parr visually with the excellent Marushin Gas Blow Back replica and is far far more skirmishable even with the 20 round mag. It is a great new addition to our Armory of possibilities. Sales success will determine to a large extent what (if any) additional WW2 offerings we'll see. Two factors that will impact volume will be if GnG offers an economy version in simulated wood to lower the price point and if the clips become available and are reasonably priced.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Jan 10, 2015 16:27:53 GMT -5
does it come with any extra mags per chance?
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 10, 2015 19:37:51 GMT -5
No, That would have been a wise choice by GnG but alas it only comes with one clip. the ICS which has a higher capacity (32 instead of 20) comes standard with two clips. Incidently the GnG Garand should be set up to accomodate a bayonet (real or replica) I know thats a question (STUKA) that I know you were dying to ask!
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Jan 10, 2015 19:42:17 GMT -5
Hmm odd, they offered 2 with their 1903 and k98's. They also gave a sling with the k98, seems like they're giving less and less =/ And thanks 2nd Bat haha
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jan 11, 2015 15:34:07 GMT -5
a leather sling and some spare magazines would be essential accessories for this rifle.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 25, 2015 15:34:56 GMT -5
No word as yet on availabilty and price on spare magazines and for me that remains a critical buy/ no buy, factor. Anyone see anything I missed on spare GnG M1 clips?
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Feb 25, 2015 19:13:53 GMT -5
Nope, evike still hasn't gotten them or something, looks like combat sports supply got really lucky or something
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Feb 25, 2015 21:49:12 GMT -5
Thats amazing that they got their intial order so far ahead of everyone else. They are a small, low profile retailer. I wonder if they sold out of their intial shipment?
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Post by brownien on Mar 1, 2015 12:22:05 GMT -5
Just a question about the G&G's mags, would they fit easier into the cartriage belt pockets if you cut off/removed the bottom plate of each? Is that bottom plate just cosmetic or does it serve a purpose for the mag? If it could be removed to fit into the pockets, it would make sense to do so and just leave one mag stock to use if you intend on showing it off. (That is, if we finally see extra mags come into the market at some point)
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shiftysgarand
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Post by shiftysgarand on Mar 1, 2015 13:09:03 GMT -5
I know with the ICS Garand, if you took off the baseplate(which was cosmetic) the mags would fit in cartridge belt pouches. I would expect the G&G offering to be the same. Then again, I bet the mags would also fit in bandoliers, which by the end of the war were becoming the standard way of carrying ammunition anyway.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 1, 2015 14:48:33 GMT -5
After spending all this time lately creating special magazines for my own conversions I was hit with one of those head slapper moments where you go..."Duh". For the ICS (and no doubt the GnG) you could dremel off the side edges of the lips that protrude to fill the edges of the garand stock. These would then allow the clips to be slid into and out of the Garand pouches and bandoleers more readily. As mentioned by Brownien you could leave one unalterred for show. Better still (and this is sort of what I am doing with my modified actual Garand stocks). Use the cut off lips to create permanent side walls at the base of the ICS/ GnG mag well area. The now thinner clips would snap into place and align with these built up areas to create the same finished look but with two small seams on both edges of your now thinner clips.
If you decided to go that route of course you would have to shave all your clips but that is a relatively easy chore. The build up area on the ICS would be quite tiny compared to my real stocks where these resin build ups need to be about 1/2 inch deep. With the Dynaglass resin fill or JB weld it should prove to be plenty strong.
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Post by volkssturm on Mar 1, 2015 15:39:23 GMT -5
Brilliant! It's so freaking obvious, makes you wonder why the manufacturer never thought of it. Then again, considering what the manufacturers do, I guess it's not a surprise.
Just noticed, the ICS baseplate is held on by one screw. Take out the screw and you can slide the baseplate right off. No need to dremel it. For appearance sake I suppose filling in the bottom with epoxy paste would make sense.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 1, 2015 17:28:39 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing. So simple. The manufacturers are not WW2 airsofters so the value of the clips fitting in the ammo pouches wasn't a consiseration. In lookng at this I BELIEVE (though won't know for sure until i do it) that unloading and reloading can be set up to work better? With the Garands this is critical as with both the ICS and especially the GnG and my Conversions this is critical. My goal always is to be able to do it by feel quickly without taking your eyes off things down range.
This takes practice of course but it is time well spent.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 2, 2015 1:18:41 GMT -5
So I fiddled with this a bit on the ICS Clip. My epiphany is something of a dead end. With the base plate removed (quite easy) the clips fit in the Garand pouches but without the base plate (especially if you dremel off the edges and mount them permanently on your ICS Garand, removing empty clips will be extremely involved and difficult. Interestingly the GnG magazine is tricky to insert but pops right out with the mag release button. conversely the ICS loads easily but is tricky to remove. A thin pad of foam at the roof of the ICS mag well might remedy this which is a technique I use for the shottie mags in my conversion Garands. The tolerances however in the ICS mght not allow it. I will get some appropriate foam pads and try it. If it works I'll glue it in. As it is I dremeled some small pinch cuts in my ICS stock and its still harder than I would like.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 6, 2015 2:42:56 GMT -5
I got an email reply from Butch at Combat Sport Supply who still has a few of the new GnG Garands in stock. He owns one himself and loves it. He says the mag loads 20 and feeds 17. (3 round BB drop). He shoots .25 gram BBs and it chronos at 325 FPS. The hop up is excellent and it is very accurate. He has been assured that spare mags will be available but doesn't have a date for their arrival or price information.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Apr 27, 2015 20:47:03 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Jul 3, 2015 15:47:49 GMT -5
Still no availability or pricing on spare magazines for the GnG Garand. At 17 rounds without spare magazines this rifle is simply not practical as a skirmish rifle no matter how good it is. I will buy one when clips become available assuming they are affordable. To clarify some points in earlier comments in this thread the ICS clips can be squeezed into the Garand belt pouches but even after water stretching the pouches not in such a way that they freely and easily slide in and out.
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stuka
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Post by stuka on Jul 7, 2015 12:23:17 GMT -5
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