Loaner Breadbag projects.

[Dracul]

Hello! I think I finally have something solid to add to the forum here! 

So, I was working on another sewing project, non-WWII related, and I realized early on that the material I was working with might be decent to use to make loaner breadbags. I just finished my prototype, and I have a crap ton of this material left! I don't plan on getting more materials for this run specifically. I want to use up my stock. Got to use what I have. 

These are not supposed to be 100% correct, just something I can make to lift the burden of equipping loaner kits with breadbags.  

This is a prototype. I'm happy how it came out, but I don't have the hardware for to make it 100% accurate or even 90% accurate. As long as I can make these rugged enough to withstand field use, still have the features, and have the inaccuracies not distract too much from the overall image. The main material is Ultasuede (synthetic suede), with dress faux leather to cover the rugged marine vinyl (since I don't have marine vinyl in black).

Completed prototype. I don't have D-rings at the moment, I have them coming in, though. To be honest, I don't think I can find a source for the metal belt hook, so I just used another button instead. I don't have metal buttons either, so I'm hoping earth colored buttons don't distract too much.




Side to side with an Post War East German one. I realized the subtle differences between them, unfortunately, only after I went too far. I did take my other one apart to create the patterns. Luckily, the base pattern themselves hasn't really changed, so I just have to make sure my next one will have the pointed belt loops. 



Picture of the under the flap. Here is the ultimate downfall of ultrasuede. Like most other synthetic leathers, this has a "wrong" side that is colored completely different from the suede side. Its already too much of a hassle to sew this normally, so doubling up, just to cover the wrong side would drive me insane. 



Here is the feature I intentionally kept from the East German breadbag. I really like the inside pocket. Its a nice, out of the way place, to keep keys, wallet, etc etc, without worrying about them from falling out when gaming and clanking around making noise. I know they didn't exist in the WWII ones. In all fairness, not making the inside pocket would make the process go faster. Also, I deliberately left out the rear D-rings, because of not having them, but I do plan on including those in my other ones.
 

While this here is just a general breadbag, other ones I plan to make this run, I'll try to make different variants. Tropical, M44, etc etc. Just to mix it up. I understand the M44 would be the best one to make with the materials I have, but I don't want to restrict myself entirely to late war. 

All in all, its a real simple sewing project to do. For this run, which maybe my only run, will just be done with the materials I currently have (sans the incoming D-rings). If I ever find a decent price and colored canvas BTY later on, I might go ahead and buy more correct hardware. These do take awhile to sew up, since my sewing machine can't handle the ultrasuede, and I have to hand sew these. Because of that, I can't logically make these for selling. I didn't count the hours it took me, it took a lot of Batman watching, so it would cost much more than a good repro. Price = Materials + Time. Maybe down the line with a material that my sewing machine can handle, but even then, I don't think anyone would be interested. Luckily, these take, roughly, about less then half a yard of fabric.

I have patterns drawn up, and if anyone wants to try this on their own, I can copy them and send them out for a small fee. Mostly to cover shipping, and the hand copying work. If there is enough want for the patterns, I can turn the patterns into digital ones. I can compile it all and brief instructions into a single .pdf file that you can just print out with a normal printer, join the pages together, and then you have a full sized pattern. Although, it would greatly help if you had legit breadbag with you to use has a model. 

Hand sewing sucks. 
Takes too long.
Fingers hurt.

-Dracul

[luftwelle93]

You did a good job for a first try!It looks decent enough for just to use in the field and it hardly makes a difference.In time you should get at least 95% ;)Keep up the work!

[2nd Bat]

These would suit my "At a glance" OPFOR Costumes very nicely.

[Dracul]

Pretty much what I'm going for! Except, I think I can make a nice compromise between "at a glance" and "repro". 

Going to start working on more tomorrow. Now that I have a system down for these, I can speed up the process a tad. Hand sewing is still going to make this take forever though.... 

[LϟϟAH1944]

www.hessenantique.com/East_German_Bread_Bag_w_Strap_p/s91370100.htm

[Dracul]

I know the E. German ones are extremely well priced and pretty identical to the early war bread bags. Especially, as I own one myself and got mine from Hessen right there. However, the 9 bucks I save from making the breadbags from materials I already have in stock, can go elsewhere. Especially since I'll have 5 total from this run. That's 45 bucks I'm saving that can be well used. 

Even for prototype, looks pretty damn good when "dolled up" with the rest of a combat load. 


I started the one man assembly line here. Including the prototype, I'll be able to make five bread bags. M31, M40, Tropical, and M44 styles are going to be my other four. 

Some notes I've learned when doing the first one, for anyone wishing to do this as well (that I haven't mentioned prior): 


Construction notes:
-Sew on buttons to the front piece, before sewing it together with the back piece.
-Make sure belt loop straps extend below the top edge of the bag. Make sure to have triangle edges.
-Sew base D-ring leather straps on the top belt loops, on the back piece. To ensure proper alignment. NOT on flap piece.

Material notes:
-Amount of main fabric needed is 13in x 59in.
  -767 square inches. Standard 36x36 yard of fabric is 1296 square inches
  -Number includes E. German inner pocket
  -Should include enough room for belt straps
  -Might need a bit more, depending on how much extra you or the farbic needs for hemming.

-If bolt is 36x36, Quarter yard is needed for leather bits.
  -Really exaggerating that number. Will work out proper number later.

-5-7 buttons.
  -Depends on what model and if you want to substitute the belt hook with a button.
  -Add one more for the cleaning kit pouch in the M44

-4 D-rings for all models except M44.
  -M44 war only really needs 2.

[2nd Bat]

The East German bag offered by Hessen is a perfect source for my purposes and thank you for that. I will be buying a bunch of them. Dracul showing your homebuilt bag mixed in with the other web gear shows great perspective. When supplying gear for other and hence having to acquire fairly large numbers of gear pennies saved adds up. Dollars saved really add up! For an individual impression you come out ahead to do it "right".

The folks willing to "surplus their own needs" to provide for others in my opinion is the best way to grow this hobby. I never would have had decent enough participation in my local games without the ability to outfit a dozen plus walk ons and that remains true even with a gowing cadre of local enthusiasts. They get to play and participate as they build their own set ups.

[Dracul]

While I was at the gym a few minutes ago, I realized something for loaner kits. Not sure how correct this would be, but if you equip players as the Finnish were equipped in the Winter War, it would keep costs down. Equip each guy with just a belt, single or no ammo pouch, bread bag, and use the bread bag strap instead of Y straps. Its EXTREMELY bare bone, but its a cheap start for those wanting to make a few loaner kits. Obviously not the end state, its a start that can be improve on bit by bit. Buy the base to start out, then buy Y straps later, then get ammo pouches for the kits, etc etc. Realizing this, I might be able to make a bread bag strap or two with the extra material I have from this run.

I wanted to post this picture in my last post when I mentioned the one man assembly line, haha. 



Got my work cut out for me, but first have to cut it out! 

 

[2nd Bat]

A heavy duty sewing machine would save you enormous time and trouble and produce a better result. I wonder with everything cut out a commercial shop would charge to do the main sewing leaving the finish work to you? My daughter (who owns TUESDAYS SCARVES) does all her own sewing and has several commercial set ups at her shop. I would think local to you there might be an outfit that could zip these out for you quickly and cheaply?

[volkssturm]

What kind of material are you using?

BTW, I just looked in at Mike's Militaria. He's selling Yugoslav M1924 ammo pouches for $16. Brown, but fairly close to the German pouches.

[Dracul]

2ndBat: Not sure if there is anything like that around, but I trust that my own work will be sufficient enough. Stitching might be a bit sloppy, but it will hold for sure. I've been sewing for 10 years now, and have done lots of things with sewing. Its my specialty. Also, since I'm only using this material for this run, and I have to wait a good bit for the D-rings to come in, I have a lot of time and no real reason to rush these. I've been taking longer on my stitching and trying to get the stitches shorter and straighter. With canvas for my next run, my personal machine will be able to handle it. Though, I do want an industrial machine one of these days...

Volksturm: I'm using up my old stocks of Ultrasuede from an older project. A synthetic suede.

Small production updates from last night. I realized I'm unable to make a Tropical version. I thought I had more canvas/webbing bits to use, but what I found was much less than I thought. So, I'm just going to make another M44. I'm also adding a layer of marine vinyl to the closing straps for added strength. The ones on the prototype are just dress pleather. It should hold for the purpose, but I'll add this small amount of reinforcements for the production. 

Oh! Also, can I bug anyone who has a Kar98 cleaning kit to either post or send the dimensions of it (length x width x depth)? I need them to make the cleaning kit pouch on my M44 makes. 
 




I'm going to be heading to Joann's fabrics today, and I'll see if they have any sort of canvas there. Second run might sooner that I thought, haha.   

[2nd Bat]

Hand sewing is so labor intense but the end result is definitely something you can take great pride in. These look fine on an impression for field play and will add a lot to an impression. They also are a practical field item. By adding customized pockets you can make them even more so.

[Dracul]

My sewing machine must think it's funny.

I clearly remember it not being able to handle the ultra suede, at all. But, I tried to use it, just for the hell of it, and boom, it worked! And it has been working with the ultra suede quite well. Might need to still hand sew the heftier loads, the ones when I'm sewing through over 4 layers, but this definitely speeds up the process insanely fast.

I want to be mad, but I really can't. I can now turn these out at a faster rate. Still have to wait for the D-rings.

When I was at Joann's Fabrics earlier, I was searching for canvas and other heavy weight and rugged material. They don't have anything like "military" gear canvas. So, I'll search online later and hopefully I can find something decently priced. If not, I might have to use another rugged material in a good color for my next run. Like what I'm doing now.

[LϟϟAH1944]

Winter war for western front? nope...not unless youre doing 6.SS in nordwind. Guys should have belt, pouches, Breadbag, and y-straps at minimum, depending on unit.

[LϟϟAH1944]

But, other then the material, I'm impressed! As someone who has made time consuming things in the past, I can say you've done nice work. can't wait to see yours when you start to use the better fabric.

[insterburger]

Mar 1, 2015 19:43:18 GMT -5 volkssturm said:

What kind of material are you using?

BTW, I just looked in at Mike's Militaria. He's selling Yugoslav M1924 ammo pouches for $16. Brown, but fairly close to the German pouches.

For the record, German pouches in fact were brown, up through 1940. It was only starting around then that they started to transition production to black, Earlier brown pouches were blacked over in the field by the soldiers themselves. I have an unmatched pair with 1939 and illegible makers marks, they are black on the front and left brown on the backside that is toward the belt.

These would work just fine as 98k pouches, and blacking them up would be 100% authentic.

[Dracul]

LSSAH1944: Thanks! The next four of this run will be better looking than my prototype. BTW, I was just making a suggestion for starting out loaner kits with. The Finnish and Winter War thing was just an example that came in mind.


Does anyone have a Kar98 cleaning kit that goes into the M44 breadbag pocket? If I could get measurements on that, that would be great! I want to correctly measure out that pocket. Thanks.

[LϟϟAH1944]

Yugo pouches are 2 cell, 98 pouches are 3 cell. Don't go yugos.

[insterburger]

The ones pictured are 3 cell. Don't know their provenance but would be a go for German WWII

[LϟϟAH1944]

Ah, I see em now. Those are pretty much identical, just re-dye em black.

[LϟϟAH1944]

Although theyre wider, like the ww1 mauser pouches.

[volkssturm]

They're identified as Model 1924 Yugo pouches so they likely copied the WWI Germans.

[Dracul]

Updates so far. Most of yesterday was drawing out the patterns, cutting out and just generally prepping the pieces to be sewn. Today, I spent most of it putting together the back pieces all together (sans the D-rings). Each bread bag is about 30-40% done. 




Back pieces are all assembled. Assembling the front piece and the flap are going to be easy and rather fast. 

I've made a few mistakes along the way, nothing catastrophic, but I'm learning from this. Also, realized that my patterns need tweaking. 

Two more days of working on this, should get me as far as a "near completion" level I can get to without D-Rings. After that, I see if I have enough material to make for a bread bag strap or two. 

[deadcat7382]

excellent work!

[volkssturm]

Very impressive effort.

[Dracul]

Thanks!

My attempted rifles sucked or failed, but sewing is the one thing where I exceed at. I've been sewing for ten years, and I even have won competitions for some of my works at various nerd conventions. Now, if I could just find a cheap source for the German wool or HBT and a good pattern, haha.

[2nd Bat]

These look very nice and your assembly line is impressive. Glad to hear your sewing machine is up to the task. I was surprised to think it couldn't manage ultra suede?

For a home sewing uniform project I would think the German smocks would be doable. unfortunately the only sourceI have seen for the camo patterened fabric exceeds what you can buy the finished smocks for.

[Dracul]

Thats with most materials out there. I find the correct wool for about $30/yd. I would need 3 yards for a tunic, and then buy all the hardware. Thats going to be over 100 bucks. Good grade tunics are about that much and have all the work already finished. Its kind of mind boggling that its like that. Usually the raw materials are always much cheaper than the finished product. For WWII German uniforms, its almost the opposite. Hessen has the DAK uniform fabric for $14/yd, which is pretty damned good, but I can't really use it up here in the North East. ATF has the reed green HBT fabric for $15/yd, but that would mean I can only make proper late war tunics, or go fantasy and make HBT early war tunics and trousers. I know I'm going "fantasy" with these bread bags, but I don't know if I want to do that with uniforms just yet.

[luftwelle93]

You can make some canteen covers too an fabricate a WW2 Feldflasche easy.An East German plastic one will do well with a cover,straps,and cup!

[LϟϟAH1944]

I have fabric pattern, and am looking to have smocks, tarnmutzen, and covers made. However, they'd need to be SPOT ON, I n other words, requiring a 2-needle machine.