mullet69
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Need advice about recommended airsoft weapon from the German selection
Posts: 41
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Pistols
Aug 25, 2015 18:55:12 GMT -5
Post by mullet69 on Aug 25, 2015 18:55:12 GMT -5
So with my SS impression 90% complete & an MP40 currently on route I wanted to ask about the possible German choice of pistols & which are most reliable,I have kinda set my heart on the Browning HP but the P38 is a close 2nd.obviously there's also the Luger & PPK..plus the TT33 which we know were used by the German's.any information on these would be greatly appreciated
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Dracul
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Pistols
Aug 25, 2015 19:57:24 GMT -5
Post by Dracul on Aug 25, 2015 19:57:24 GMT -5
From what it seems like, the Luger and TT33 are your best bets out of your list here. Only because they have continuing after market support. The few Browning HP's and P38's out there don't have that. With the PPK, there are a lot of variants out there, and not entirely sure if the one out there is the WWII one or not.
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Pistols
Aug 25, 2015 20:03:42 GMT -5
Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Aug 25, 2015 20:03:42 GMT -5
Seeing as youre going for an Mp40, I assume youre going for a squad leader role?
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shiftysgarand
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Pistols
Aug 25, 2015 20:04:08 GMT -5
Post by shiftysgarand on Aug 25, 2015 20:04:08 GMT -5
I'd go with a Luger, if you have to get a sidearm. It was standard issue, so you don't have to come up with a backstory on how you pulled a TT33 off a dead Russian, which wouldn't be very believable if you were on the Western front (which most of us airsofters are). Plus, as Dracul said, it has spare parts available.
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Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Aug 25, 2015 20:37:56 GMT -5
No, luger was most definitely NOT standard issue.
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Pistols
Aug 25, 2015 21:47:34 GMT -5
Post by aldrich on Aug 25, 2015 21:47:34 GMT -5
P38 would have been the most common sidearm. I borrowed an airsoft one once and it was really nice. I don't remember the maker. The next common pistol would be Lugers and European copies of the Browning HP. The issued lugers would have been scarfed up by officers, but the Germans did capture HP's from the countries that they invaded such as Poland, so soldiers could be seen wearing them from time to time. The only airsoft luger I saw in person had a broken sear, which I have heard is a common problem, so I would be wary of them. I would rule out the ppk as that was more of a sidearm carried by desk jockeys or people who were required to carry a pistol but didn't want the weight on their hip. I haven't been impressed by the airsoft ones either. I don't have extensive experience with pistols, but I hope this helps.
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Pistols
Aug 25, 2015 22:55:14 GMT -5
Post by volkssturm on Aug 25, 2015 22:55:14 GMT -5
The Germans not only captured Browning HP's, they captured the factory in Belgium, which continued producing HP's for the Germans as the Pistole 640(b).
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2nd Bat
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Pistols
Aug 26, 2015 5:52:10 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 26, 2015 5:52:10 GMT -5
Some of my fondest airsoft battle memories are of last ditch, desperate pistol kills with limited shots and a lot of luck!
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shiftysgarand
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Pistols
Aug 26, 2015 9:08:53 GMT -5
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Post by shiftysgarand on Aug 26, 2015 9:08:53 GMT -5
No, luger was most definitely NOT standard issue. Lssah-what I meant was that it was far more common than a TT33, and since those are the two airsoft replicas with aftermarket support, I was supporting one of those. From an authenticity standpoint, a P38 would be the OP's best bet.
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2nd Bat
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Pistols
Aug 26, 2015 14:01:48 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 26, 2015 14:01:48 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see a breakdown on pistol distribution within the German military. What percentage of frontline soldiers typically had them? what percentage were P38s, LUgers, HiPowers etc. Rough estimates based on facts would be helpful. The Germans by nature tend to track and record such things so this information is probably available somewhere.
For airsoft its always nice having a back up weapon and a pistol is far more practical than having two or three main battle weapons at an event.
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Pistols
Aug 26, 2015 16:47:40 GMT -5
Post by LϟϟAH1944 on Aug 26, 2015 16:47:40 GMT -5
or look at photos of the unit you're portraying.
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2nd Bat
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Post by 2nd Bat on Aug 26, 2015 17:38:24 GMT -5
I am not as big a fan of photos as perhaps I should be. My bias is that so many things Vietnam reenactors say NEVER happened (in fact were relatively commonplace) and things they say photos show as commonplace were in fact fairly obscure. Once established as common knowledge these things tend to be chiselled in granite and anyone questioning them are heretics or quacks (or worse, F-A-R-B-S).
In WW2 much that was photographed was carefully managed by both sides propaganda machine and censorship bureau. Also rarities tended to catch the eye (and camera lense) of the photographer. A case in point is the relatively small unit of the 101st who applied Indian warpaint before the Normandy jump. For years it was thought that this was quite common. shoulder flags on 101st paras unequivacally argued as NEVER being done when in fact some whole units did it. (typically lead by former 82nd vets who knew the advantage with regard to friendly fire.
Photos are GREAT references and absolutely should be resourced but they are not the BE ALL, END All that many stitch nazis like to tout. I guess i'd just like to know how wrong a LUGER, Browning Hi Power, or just pistol in general would be for a typical German soldier? Who within the kompanie were issued them? how likely was a soldier to inherit or hang onto a captured pistol? In the US Army pass ons from casualties was very common as was bartering and just plain theft. Tables of Organization were meanngful to a degree but far too commonly tweaked to get anal about.
Perhaps the German military was less flexible in this regard?
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Dracul
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Pistols
Aug 26, 2015 18:01:45 GMT -5
Post by Dracul on Aug 26, 2015 18:01:45 GMT -5
Something the OP should also be aware of.
If you can wait to get a side arm... WE Tech just recently released their own P38. While there isn't any aftermarket support (or extra mags) out yet, WE Tech is usually good at releasing aftermarket support. So, if you do want a P38, I'd wait a bit to see when or if WE Tech will release aftermarket support. I wouldn't know how long it would take them to do so, but there is demand for their P38 since they have been sold out from Evike within a few days of being sold.
Just my two cents on the scale of issue topic. While I'm definitely not arguing the P38 being the standard sidearm, I am going to say this. This goes for anything military. Whenever a military (regardless of past or present) issues a new piece of gear, uniform, or gun, it does take a really long time, if at all, to be issued fully across the service and the old item it replace to be completely cycled out. Despite being initially adopted, mass produced, and issued in 1940, just how long from then did the P38 become the standard?
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Pistols
Aug 26, 2015 18:16:56 GMT -5
Post by patrickl29th on Aug 26, 2015 18:16:56 GMT -5
Well for Germany and the U.S. Not all soldiers got a sidearm. Most common with officers or some NCO's. With a regular foot infantry you would just see a rifle. That being said, engineers, anti tank soldiers and machine gunners did get sidearms.
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Dracul
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Pistols
Aug 26, 2015 18:27:13 GMT -5
Post by Dracul on Aug 26, 2015 18:27:13 GMT -5
Most definitely the case, even by modern standards! However, as a WWII airsofter, its a good idea to get a sidearm for yourself. Not saying to always use it for your impressions, or flaunt around like thats how it was. But if you have a good bolt action as your main rifle, a lot of fields out there won't let you fire within a certain distance with it, or there are some out there that straight up force you to have a side arm if you want to use the bolt action.
At the same time... OP is saying he already has a MP40. So there isn't much use for a side arm (don't take that as me telling you not to get one). Maybe he is getting one to have it before worrying about a main rifle or wanting one for an officer's impression?
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mullet69
Private
Need advice about recommended airsoft weapon from the German selection
Posts: 41
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Pistols
Aug 26, 2015 19:25:37 GMT -5
Post by mullet69 on Aug 26, 2015 19:25:37 GMT -5
I want a pistol for when I'm in a tight spot or even if someone bum rushes me & I can't use my main weapon,I will more likely go for the browning.i also plan to do a British para impression as well in time so the browning would work for both,always liked the browning anyway
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Post by volkssturm on Aug 26, 2015 19:44:39 GMT -5
Here's a partial answer from Wiki: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_firearms_of_GermanyP-38's, 480,000 made by 1945. Browning HP's, 319,000 manufactured under German occupation. So there was a bunch of them. They don't give a number on Lugers. Another interesting one is the Kongsberg Colt, a Colt M1911 .45 manufactured under license in Norway. The German used 8200 of them. I found another site where a guy gives production figures for Lugers from 1934 to 1942, when production stopped. It's over 800,000,close to the combined P-38 and HP production. Plus they most likely had some stocks left from WWI, though the WWI guns might also have been pretty worn. luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?32333-Luger-Production-Numbers-by-years
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mullet69
Private
Need advice about recommended airsoft weapon from the German selection
Posts: 41
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Pistols
Aug 26, 2015 19:45:48 GMT -5
Post by mullet69 on Aug 26, 2015 19:45:48 GMT -5
I also forgot to ask but is there a safe way to remove the orange plug at the end of the barrel without damaging the gun? The one's normally on pistols & not part of the barrel painted orange,the plug type
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Dracul
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Pistols
Aug 26, 2015 20:36:55 GMT -5
Post by Dracul on Aug 26, 2015 20:36:55 GMT -5
Well, unless your MP40 is going to shoot higher than 400fps (which there isn't a reason for it to do so), just shoot whomever is rushing you with the MP40. No need to waste time switching to another weapon. It will be faster to just aim and shoot with your SMG than it is to deal with the holster and drawing your pistol.
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Post by ssgjoe on Aug 26, 2015 22:15:05 GMT -5
First things first..what rank are you portraying? I portray an obergefreiter with an MP40, and I do not carry a sidearm. Not every NCO carried a sidearm either, I actually think your impression would look better without one. Every reenactor and their mother wants to carry a sidearm.
My vote? Don't get a sidearm. However if you really really need one because let's say your field requires it for clearing buildings, what I'd probably do is buy a cheap non blowback PPK and hide it and only have it visible when I'm clearing a building or something. When not in ise, it would be tucked completely out if sight.
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mullet69
Private
Need advice about recommended airsoft weapon from the German selection
Posts: 41
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Pistols
Aug 27, 2015 7:29:38 GMT -5
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Post by mullet69 on Aug 27, 2015 7:29:38 GMT -5
Well I will not be portraying a rank initially because of the low numbers that take part here in Texas,just happy a few others turn up in WW2 gear & yes Joe all the fields here have distance rules for main weapon & sidearm so it would only be used in close quarters/room or house clearing..didn't think about the PPK being tucked away somewhere on me.thanks for that mate
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Pistols
Aug 27, 2015 10:50:05 GMT -5
Post by patrickl29th on Aug 27, 2015 10:50:05 GMT -5
I would go with the browning hi power, its a gun you don't see a lot in airsoft but you saw a lot in wwII pictures.
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Post by ssgjoe on Aug 27, 2015 19:50:19 GMT -5
How often do you get too close with the minimum engagement distance to use your primary weapon?
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Post by ssgjoe on Aug 27, 2015 19:50:56 GMT -5
I've noticed that even for modern airsoft, I almost never ever use my handgun even when I have it.
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Pistols
Aug 29, 2015 3:17:00 GMT -5
Post by scvngr on Aug 29, 2015 3:17:00 GMT -5
Sidearm while carrying a SMG seems redundant. Bolt action or MG (if that class has a minimum engagement) probables.
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Post by ssgjoe on Aug 29, 2015 10:51:09 GMT -5
Bolt action is almost 100% a no go for handguns. MG is almost 100% a good to go.
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Pistols
Aug 29, 2015 13:00:39 GMT -5
Post by volkssturm on Aug 29, 2015 13:00:39 GMT -5
Just a couple more thoughts. When in the war affects what kind of handgun would have been available. Early war Lugers would have been much more common. The P-38 didn't go into production until 1939, so there weren't many around for the invasions of Poland and France, plus none of the captured handguns would have been available. There wouldn't be any TT-33's until after June '41. Luger production ended in'42, so Lugers would become less common and the P-38, HP, and other foreign weapons would have become more common.
You're doing SS, so that affects what weapons are available. The SS was competing with the Army for weapons, and particularly early in the war they frequently ended up making do with second best. An SS soldier early to mid-war would more likely end up with a substitute standard weapon like an HP or TT-33 than with a Luger or P-38.
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stuka
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Pistols
Aug 29, 2015 18:59:38 GMT -5
Post by stuka on Aug 29, 2015 18:59:38 GMT -5
Didn't most standard riflemen not have pistols?
Like wasn't it almost exclusive for specialized roles and ncos?
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2nd Bat
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Pistols
Oct 23, 2015 18:30:49 GMT -5
Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 23, 2015 18:30:49 GMT -5
On paper that is correct. Mortar men, drivers, MG rs, bazooka men etc as well as NCOs and Officers but through attrition these things tend to get orphaned and are quickly adopted. Any seasoned vet who had been in combat would be likely to have access to one. With airsoft guns whether they are AEGs, gas guns or springers go down from time to time. A pistol backup for airsoft frankly makes sense from a practical perspective.
I have been blessed that seldom have I had to resort to a pistol but its nice to have when you need it. If you feel it weakens your impression carry it descreitly.
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Dracul
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Pistols
Oct 23, 2015 19:25:41 GMT -5
Post by Dracul on Oct 23, 2015 19:25:41 GMT -5
Or act like its a battlefield pick up from an enemy.
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