savoy6
Private 1st Class
Posts: 428
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Post by savoy6 on Oct 22, 2015 12:15:37 GMT -5
Are we ,(historical airsofters), still even trying to get out to normal airsoft players?....or has this just become a way for reenactors to get back into the tactical event thing, at a much lower price point than RS/blank fire?....I'm just wondering about the thoughts of the community as a whole on this..or am i just just behind the recruiting direction curve ,since I'm not a member of a reenactment unit which seems to have become the main population group here over the last 5 years or so...
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Post by princeofpinoys on Oct 22, 2015 17:51:12 GMT -5
My German WW2 Group in Georgia are all airsofters, our goal is to revive WW2 Airsoft within the area, when we go to public games we often try to recruit other airsofters not only into our team but into WW2 Airsoft in general.
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savoy6
Private 1st Class
Posts: 428
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Post by savoy6 on Oct 22, 2015 18:17:48 GMT -5
i was asking in general ben....lol..i know you guys are working out there in the regular AS community..
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Post by princeofpinoys on Oct 22, 2015 20:30:12 GMT -5
Lol...oh...well I feel ya man, I'm curious as well
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 22, 2015 21:20:40 GMT -5
While some cross pollination is inevitable I see airsoft as distinct and different. Our target market tends to be younger and more focused on the action pursuit aspects than the stitch nazi perfection of uncompromising standards. That certainly doesn't denegrade either hobby or suggest that some airsofters aren't every bit as anal about that aspect of our hobby.
BF events tend to do a great job of creating non stop immersion with great props, wonderful camp life and phenomenal attention to detail. All great things that historical airsoft is increasingly incorporating into their events. Both have strengths and weaknesses but in answer to your question we are still in an immature stage of our development and still in the midst of figuring out our way.
I am of the belief that lots of compromises are needed with regard to uniform and weapons to encourage participation while others quite legitimately believe that this repels potential participants within the reenactor community.
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savoy6
Private 1st Class
Posts: 428
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Post by savoy6 on Oct 22, 2015 22:40:12 GMT -5
well I'm just going to be honest and say that I've heard the opinion voiced that we need to just concentrate on getting reenactors fitted out with airsoft weapons for their tacticals and not worry about the normal players because they don't have the deep pockets necessary for reenactment grade impressions...while i can understand where that comes from, (i.e. folks that are reenactors, not airsofters), i also know that bringing in straight up RE guys in with normal airsofters with an interest in historical stuff can be problematic..the result i've seen is that the RE guys will usually stitch nazi the hell out of the new guys, just because they are used to a certain standard. which then will usually turn off the new folks who are like..."well this isn't as fun as just going to Green v. Tan in our multicam or ATACs FG without all the drama.." i also have seen, (at least here in the SE), a lot of WW2 RE units slowing down as their members age and folks that might have joined them doing airsoft instead..also a lot less tacticals as the prices of blank fire are rising. RE guys have already been using AS guns for props in vehicles and such and i understand why given the price difference between RS and AS. but if it continues we might just end up as a board for reenactors with AS guns just for tacticals. my concern is just that by the influx of RE folks into this end of airsoft, we'll end up pushing out AS players that may want to join. for example,ben truitt, (princeofpinoys), has been doing a great job as per getting out with his guys and just going to games locally and repping ww2 airsoft in general in this area here in GA...but at this point they are some of the only ones. anyone that knows me, knows how long i've been down for ww2 AS..i'm just concerned that the few AS folks that are interested get turned off when they go to something and get stitched or look at pics of an event and people are complaining about a random cooler in the background or something...they'll feel like they won't ever have a "proper" impression no matter what they do. can't tell you how many times i hear.."well i want to come out , but i don't look as good as these other guys so i'll just wait until i have a good impression"...and in a few months i see the gear and guns that person did have up for sale. we are already fighting the simple fact that most AS folks are already teamed up with their peers...so going out and doing a historical impression is something they have to do on their own because usually their teamates aren't interested.i just think there has to be some way to be more welcoming to them.....or maybe i've just been at this too long as an AS oriented guy first...lol..i just don't know any more....
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Post by ssgjoe on Oct 22, 2015 23:00:28 GMT -5
I think the biggest problem is how small the community is and how expensive gear is. The only thing we can do about it is advertise as much as we can. Having loaner kits set up is a great idea for getting potential participants involved.
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Post by princeofpinoys on Oct 23, 2015 1:11:05 GMT -5
My unit has come up with basic list for starters in our group. Price isn't too far off from a brand new modern airsoft loadout. Only real killer i've seen are the Guns. Other then that we get the usual "Oh I'd love to do WW2, but I like my modern things" etc
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Post by aldrich on Oct 23, 2015 1:17:46 GMT -5
I think target audience depends on the aim of the individual group. While some groups are looking towards having a group of guys with a WWII themed kit to go to regular events, others are looking for a strict WWII milsim event with only WWII players. Both are good different approaches but also have different target audiences. I know that my group lays towards the latter end of that spectrum, so we are more focused on recruiting people from that spectrum of interest. That would include airsofters, leaning towards the milsim crowd. But another WWII group may be different. I think the most effective way to recruit airsofters is to look for the guys at the event who are wearing themed impressions, WWII or otherwise. I find that these are the ones who are most likely to be interested in doing WWII. Most others are just there for the airsoft, which isn't a bad thing, it just means that uniform and weapon themes aren't something that interests them. At least, that has been my experience.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Oct 23, 2015 12:07:49 GMT -5
The judgemental mindset is somehow linked into the psyche of many (but certainly not all) within the RE community. A sort of "I know more than you do" attitude that can be very off putting. Add to it a common gift for spotting detail and frankly you end up with almost obsessive behaviors.
There is a fine line between helping someone with their impression and tearing them down. I too have seen the phenomena of people staying away from events because they have been made to feel unwelcome. Indeed at living history type events where full immersion is sought this is deliberate.
I recall a local guy who hosted many fabulous Ww2 airsoft events and did a great job of growing the hobby here. I went to one of his first events (helmutt with battlesim). The impressions were ragtag and decidedly wrong and modern guns were wrapped in burlap. Lots of improper footwear and cold war era gear for both sides. At the time airsoft was almost entirely colored arm bands, capture the flag affairs so sides that you could easily distinguish was exhilarating for me. The instantaneous glimse of a kraut helmets outline or silhouette of a great coat vs a steel pot with netting was soooo cool. This created an environment for discussions about the historical times, research on uniforms and gear and custom building of more appropriate weapons. Helmutt posted pictures of his events here and was essentially ripped apart for all his efforts.
Local interest wained and the hobby has been rebuilding ever since. Momentum shot to pieces by a lot of no doubt we'll intentioned snipers from afar who never attended one of his events. Never got to laugh, swap stories or step into a ragtag group picture of 70 guys having fun.
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Post by aldrich on Oct 23, 2015 20:33:33 GMT -5
Well, like I had mentioned, I think that the biggest thing to keep in mind is that many people have a different approach to what they want out of WWII airsoft. Especially when it comes to an open community like this, you are going to see many different voices and opinions on how WWII airsoft should be done. I think a big mistake is made when people make assumptions that their opinion is held as the standard for the hobby by everyone else. Both sides of the spectrum are equally guilty in this: the stitch counters and the lenient. I even forget this sometimes. Neither approach is wrong in any way, but it comes down to each individual organization within the community to decide what end of the spectrum they want to be located on. Not all groups will agree with the other's standards, but that's ok.
For example, there are multiple games held in my area that are loosely WWII themed. At these events, people can show up with whatever they want, some may try to look the part with surplus flectarn and the like, but there are no strict requirements. That is what they as a community have decided upon and the people that go there attend with that in mind. Now it isn't what I am personally looking for in a WWII event, but that is why I am a member of a different organization with different standards and goals. In order to attend one of our events one must meet up with the realism standards that we have decided upon as a group and the people that go to our events attend with that in mind. It would be just as unfair for me to say they are unrealistic as it would be for them to say our standards are too much, which I feel is why it is always best to judge the quality of what one is trying to do by using the goals that they have set for themselves.
That being said, knowing where your particular group stands is crucial to identifying your target audience for recruitment. Just like WWII airsoft, there are multiple levels within traditional airsoft, from the casual airsofter, the the hardcore milsimmer. By identifying your target audience, you will know which airsoft events to go to, and recruit from, based on the types of players present.
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