Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Mar 8, 2016 15:57:58 GMT -5
In what capacities was the "Tan and Water Splinter" or "Marsh" camo patterns used? At The Front is currently having a rather amazing deal on the fabric: www.atthefrontshop.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=GFTW43They call it a "mistake" with the printer, but for $13 a yard for a German WWII repro camo fabric, its a small treasure! Even if I just use it for helmet covers. If I remember correctly, this was the Heer pattern that was used in North Afrika? Any particularly strong or prevalent uses? Like were smocks or tunics of this pattern commonplace (enough to warrant making a few of them for loaner kits)? Was this used for zelts, helm covers, caps? Is this chain of thought worth pursuing?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 9, 2016 12:23:20 GMT -5
The Marsh and Tan splinter pattern has less angular patterns than the more common Zelt camo but according to Camopedia was used for clothing items from late 43 on. Less common then the traditional splinter it would none the less be appropriate for your purposes.
There is a feeling within the reenactor community that Marsh and Tan is too prevalently used than it should be but so are Airborne SS and RANGER units over represented. I say if there is a deal go with it.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Mar 9, 2016 12:41:38 GMT -5
Well, thats why I'm asking about it. Even if it used more than it should, I'd at least like to know the historical backing of its use. With that, what it was used for. Smocks? Caps? Covers? etc etc.
While its a great deal on the fabric, I have to know if my efforts will be worth it, accuracy wise. Especially compared against my current operations of HBT/Drillich tunics and E. German mocked up M36 tunics.
I wouldn't mind getting it, and work to make things for others as a commission or trade, but for me, I'm trying have my kits portray more regular units as early in the war as possible. In turn, I want to know if it does work for my purposes.
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Post by insterburger on Mar 9, 2016 16:09:28 GMT -5
Others may be more knowledgeable, but to my knowledge tan and water was really only seen in winter parkas, late FJ jump suits, and some Heer smocks. Not aware of ANY Zelts or helmet covers in tan and water.
The use of tan and water smocks was usually reserved for snipers, although I think a couple of units did get kitted out with them. They would, however, be exceedingly rare. There may have been isolated "field made" caps or tunics (or helmet covers) in tan and water, but these would be so rare as to be for all intents and purposes a fantasy piece.
Honestly, probably not worth the time and effort for credible field use. But if you're doing it primarily for the kicks, go to town!
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Mar 9, 2016 16:23:58 GMT -5
Thanks!
Hmmm, wasn't it the Tan and Water Splinter that was used in North Afrika? Mainly on their zelts? As I wouldn't mind putting together some extra DAK kits for kicks and summer use (or I get stationed in the damned desert again....)
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Post by insterburger on Mar 9, 2016 17:27:48 GMT -5
I've never heard anything about tan and water being used in Africa. While it did come out in '43, that gives it very little opportunity to have been used there. It's generally regarded as a later-war pattern, and a fairly scarce one at that.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Mar 9, 2016 17:46:14 GMT -5
Right, right.... Eh, I might pick some up to make some cheap zelts at least. Maybe not all the buttons and holes, but at least I'd have something of a German tent that doesn't slay my wallet. If not, maybe just pick some up for the price and have in my fabric stock for whatever.
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Post by aldrich on Mar 9, 2016 21:33:00 GMT -5
Tan and water was a pattern that arrived later in the war. It's most common use would have been with winter reversible items issued during the winter of 1944, and smocks used by the Heer and Luftwaffe. Possibly helmet covers but I have not seen an original example of this, so if they did it was rare. It would be a good camo for a 1944 event or later, but any earlier would be incorrect. It was never used for zelts. It was also never used in Africa. As far as Africa goes, splinter zelts would be the extent of the camo issued to the infantry.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Mar 9, 2016 21:36:17 GMT -5
I never did get dimensions for a zelt but these fashioned into zelt sizes and shapes could be used as cover-ups for my hokey tunics and camp table covers etc.
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Post by schmitz on May 17, 2016 4:45:53 GMT -5
I never did get dimensions for a zelt but these fashioned into zelt sizes and shapes could be used as cover-ups for my hokey tunics and camp table covers etc. I think you'd better wait to get splinter rather than tan and water. I don't think I've heard of tan and water used for zelts.
mp44.nl/equipment/zelt.htm
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 17, 2016 23:49:55 GMT -5
Very very helpful details.
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