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Post by brownien on Jul 31, 2016 21:08:30 GMT -5
Hello guys, I've been running it through my head a bit, and thought I should throw it out here. I've been wanting to get a Russian impression together for some time now, and I feel like it would be a nice change of pace for those of us in the NE Sector. Now this wouldn't be anything very soon, there would be a "tooling up" process so to speak, to get enough in attendance set to go.
The plus to doing Eastern Front events is: -Initial costs for uniforms and equipment would be cheaper for new guys, as well as for loaner gear. -So many more opportunities for scenarios would be available to us -we would have that much more of a broad spectrum of reenactors present to draw from, as well as those who may only be interested in Eastern front history currently.
The down sides: -it's one more impression to get for those of us that do Allied, not so much for the Germans -the availability of Russian guns is much more sparse that most belligerents of the western front, currently on the market.
Just wanted to get some feedback for possible future events. I wouldn't exclusively be hosting future Eastern front events, but depending on numbers, I may mix it up between the two.
Also, keep an eye open for a upcoming event in Sept/Oct!
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Aug 1, 2016 7:08:41 GMT -5
I'd be down for it, but, man, outside of TT-33 and PPSH, there isn't a good skirmishable Russian rifle at all, anywhere. The two gas ones out there have major problems, one doesn't have a hopup, and the other one has a weird loading mechanism for both gas and BBs that makes it impossible to do so in the middle of a fire fight.
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Post by insterburger on Aug 1, 2016 8:36:40 GMT -5
I think this is a great idea, we need to be able to be more versatile in our scenarios.
As for weaponry, we could allow US weapons to be fielded by the Soviets. This would not only help US guys who want to kit out as Soviet by saving them the expense, but it's at least plausible: there WERE some US small arms fielded by the Soviets (especially Thompsons), so we can call them Lend=Lease guns and have a nice day. If folks have German small arms, we could likewise let them on the field as Reds who captured them-- there is ample evidence of both German and Soviet forces fielding captured enemy weapons. Anyone who wants to get Russian guns should be encouraged to, but we could be clear that the initial buy-in should be uniform and gear.
Let's see how we can move in this direction. Sounds very interesting.
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Post by brownien on Aug 1, 2016 17:29:17 GMT -5
I have to agree that currently, weaponry is our main drawback. Allowing Soviet forces to use captured German guns and Lend Lease American guns. One good thing to keep in mind though, while there were rarely entire squads of GI's using Thompsons, or entire squads of Germans with Mp40's, there were entire platoons of Soviet soldiers using Ppsh41's. That is kind of where we started when western front airsoft was in its infancy too. There was a time that the only way to get a good k98, m1903, m1 Garand, or stg44 was to build one by hand. Possibly, with more popularity, word getting out, and overall exposure, there may be more companies out there willing to build a good replica Mosin, or possibly a svt-40, or Dp28. There are some very ingenious people out there that could possibly do some fantastic builds using m14's or vsr10's. Maybe there's another adventurous person to take 2ndBat's place building Svt40's?
I know it's kind of putting the cart before the horse, but my thinking is, we may need some initial momentum in events to actually get the gun builds going. If anything, I do recall our friends out in Wisconsin? Who do a majority of the Eastern Front events may be able to help us in our dilemmas. There was a very cool shotgun to Mosin conversion done by them I believe.
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Post by brownien on Aug 1, 2016 18:10:39 GMT -5
Possibly something like this for cheap loaner guns? Heck, if it breaks, just wait for the guy next to you to get hit and take his gun!
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Post by insterburger on Aug 1, 2016 18:35:28 GMT -5
Another thing that occurred to me:
I think a big problem is that no one wants to be the guy who springs for USSR stuff only to find that no one follows his lead and it's a waste of money. But a solution does present itself here.
Soviet uniforms were notoriously cheap and simple-- unfortunately the gymnastyerkas and kaliffes [sic] from the Asian vendors aren't really any cheaper than the American or German stuff. I'm wondering how much it would cost to get some very basic and light cotton or linen-like synthetic in an olive drab, and just have someone handy with a needle (wink, wink Drac!) sew some up. Five or six sets (preferably with pilotkas, cheaper than helmets) in a variety of sizes would be more than enough for a start to get a game going. Basic brown belts and a few canteens (or captured German gear, which WAS documented) and you've got yourself a squad of shock troops willing to perish for Mother Russia!
I think having that initial core of loaner kits would be vital to getting this going. Once we start having Ostfront events-- and people start having fun at them-- I think it will be easier to get buy-in.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Aug 2, 2016 10:57:50 GMT -5
Its an idea, but I can't say that I will be able to take on another team worth of uniform and gear project for a while (I'm getting closer, but still got a decent amount of work left on US and German kits...) Although, I will say that the Russian tunics are much simpler looking, but one would need to sew up the pants as well, those would be hard to find "close enough."
Luckily, Russian field gear is the cheapest. Post-war canteens are fairly identical, and originals of other bits are still fairly cheap.
Another potentially pricey concern is footwear...
EDIT:
Idea I just had, the Russian tunics have a strikingly similar pattern (cut wise, not fabric) to that of the German wool under/service shirt. Luckily, there is a pattern for it online. Harriet's WWII German Patterns (one at the bottom). The pattern will need to be hemmed up from the bottom drastically, but anyone who has the skills to sew up the shirt, will have the skill to hem it up. Its extremely simple to do.
Haven't looked, but I'm sure you can find a pattern for breeches at any fabric store or online (look under costumes and maybe historic wear). Probably would need to be modded, but it could likely be simplified to make the 1944 version that's worn at the waist line (not natural waist) and uses a belt.
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Post by insterburger on Aug 2, 2016 12:03:33 GMT -5
You make good points, Drac. As for footwear, I think that might be easily solved: German boots (for those that have them) are plenty close enough (especially the officers versions), and for everyone else, just whatever inconspicuous boots with simple ankle wraps should do. As it is we have plenty of players take the field with modern boots under Gamaschen or US gaiters, I think the same standards would apply for the Soviets.
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Dracul
Master sergeant
Posts: 1,341
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Post by Dracul on Aug 2, 2016 13:09:39 GMT -5
This is good stuff we are coming up with, but I think we hijacked the main idea of the thread and turned it from an interest thread into an impression discussion, haha.
I will start a new thread later today in the Allied Impression section with a summary of all of our ideas thus far.
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Post by SfcMigs on Aug 3, 2016 18:49:02 GMT -5
Glad to see so much chatter on future events and ideas. Especially so soon after this past event. For those of you who are not aware, back in November 2011, we did a Russian event call "Behind the Eastern Front" at Ground Zero. It was one of the best events we've ever had. Here is the thread from this board: ww2aa.proboards.com/thread/9119/eastern-front-november-19th-20th What we did and what made this event great was we kinda of took the lead from the movie "Defiance" and went with it. There was a Friday night mission with lots of play acting that we all got into. We had a great time making up fake Russian names for ourselves and interacting with the Germans. The reason why I'm bringing this up was that most of us dressed as Russian partisans and not soldiers. We did have some PPSH-41's, but we mostly used Mp-40's. I think those who don't want to spend the time or money or another impression, can go conservative and dress as a partisan if the event scenario allows. Please read through the event thread and you'll see what I mean. All good stuff guys. Migs
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Post by hajduk on Aug 3, 2016 22:44:36 GMT -5
Is there actual possibility for an Eastern Front themed event? I've been waiting for one for years! Literally! Unfortunately I am the poor sap who "springs for USSR stuff only to find that no one follows his lead", while I get endless compliments for my kit there was no real opportunity to use it in a practical setting. If any event comes to fruition, I will glad participate as either Soviet or Partisan forces (whatever is more necessary to the storyline).
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Post by volkssturm on Aug 4, 2016 14:43:39 GMT -5
Tovarisch! Is lonely being only known Russkie in Northern Front of California!
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Post by brownien on Aug 5, 2016 0:48:29 GMT -5
I may build off of Mig's suggestion and do a Eastern Front Partisan style event. Possibly have three factions overall. Germans, Russian Partisans, and Soviet Infantry. My thinking is having the total number of German and Soviet Infantry be equal to the total number of Partisans. So the Partisans have powerin numbers, but will only be lightly armed with say, pistols initially, and later progressing to bolt action rifles and shotguns, then later to smg's, lmg's and semi auto rifles. I'm also trying to work out some kind of supply system, where it encourages Partisans to ambush German supply depots, patrols, and checkpoints for supplies, as well as making it necessary for parts of Partisan forces to remain temporarily unarmed in towns for various supply/ recon/ sabotage duties, possibly also work some double agent spies into the mix.
For all the ideas floating around in my head for this, it wouldn't be solely a one day or even two day type event. I'm thinking a Friday night-Sunday early afternoon constant type of event. Camping on the field would be highly encouraged to heighten immersion for all, having a rotating night watch posted for a set time, possible night raids on forward positions, collaboration between factions and constantly needing to mend alliances. Maybe the Germans can befriend the local populace and convince them to fight the Soviet forces with them? Maybe the local populace will be devided by their own choice and go their own ways to fight against either faction? Maybe all three factions will be at odds with each other and not align with anyone? I'm trying to design the game mechanics to allow for a very broad spectrum of possibilities, all depending on the choices made by each commander and each individual player.
Keep in mind that this won't be really a win-lose combat focused style of event like most others. This will be a genuine role playing event, with German and Soviet Forces fighting tooth and nail to gain a foothold in the area and maintain public relations with the local populace, while the locals, bitter from war, solely want to survive and rid their community from the evils that are the "fascist or communist" forces. (Note: no ideologies will be any factor in this event, I solely mention it above in a historical context, as it was a major factor on the preception of the conquered peoples of that era.)
This most likely won't be the usual for Eastern Front events in the future, but I feel like it would be a good starting point as it: 1. Encourages people to begin putting together Soviet impressions and put them to good use 2. Allows people who may not be able to get a Soviet impression together quick enough, to still attend as a Partisan and not be left out 3. Would allow new players to attend a large scale event and draw more interest into the hobby without a large initial price point for kit. 4. Would be much easier on those who may choose to accrue loaner Soviet impressions for future use, while still guaging overall interest in the subject. 5. There would be less of a reliance on quickly building Soviet weaponry, or relying on Ppsh's as the backbone of Soviet and Partisan forces as there are many good shooting and inexpensive alternatives that mimic civilian type shotguns, pistols, bolt action rifles available already.
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Post by SfcMigs on Aug 5, 2016 10:49:26 GMT -5
I'm really liking all the ideas here.
If we do this sort of play acting scenario, I can supply the period ID's for the partisans.
All good stuff here.
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Post by schmitz on Aug 5, 2016 12:49:09 GMT -5
This makes me really wish I had got a Russian impression together when I still lived there and it was cheaper...
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Hauptsturmführer
Private
Alle sieben sekunden stirbt ein deutscher soldat. Stalingrad – massengrab
Posts: 38
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Post by Hauptsturmführer on Aug 7, 2016 15:16:05 GMT -5
Alle sieben sekunden stirbt ein deutscher soldat, Stalingrad, Massengrab!
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