2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 27, 2019 23:33:10 GMT -5
I am delighted with the S & T Springer Kar 98 but at least so far it is only available with the plastic Faux Wood stock. Since I had a Kar 98 real wood stock that I intended to inlay for a " Bar 98 " I decided to see how involved it would be to adapt it for use on the new S & T.
The first thing I did was seperate the Faux Wood stock from the rifle. This was straight forward. First remove a tiny screw hidden somewhat by the cleaning rod bayonet lug. This as far as I can tell prevents the upper stock band from sliding forward. I then removed the large flat head screw back at the trigger ring and the screw up by the mag housing. There are two screws here (one tiny and one large. Unscrew the large one. With these screws removed you can slide both the upper and lower stock band forward and the plastic stock will seperate.
Once removed I aligned the real stock with faux wood to insure that sizes and screw alignments are in harmony. There are a few shapes that are ever so slightly off but not significant enough to prevent the adaptation as far as I can see.
As for inlaying the dremel work will not be as significant as adapting a stock for a VSR conversion. Having the faux wood stock as a template will aid the project considerably. The wood stock will have to be gutted from top through the bottom in two places ((Couple square inches of inner stock wood removed. and a inletted 1 1/2 by 3/4 inch hollow box will have to dremeled out in front of the hollow magazine area for the hop up. The S & T trigger assembly continues forward into the magazine housing and this almost fits perfectly into the real stocks magazine hollow. The real steel stock bolt must be removed or cut out so the airsoft mechanicals will slide in. The width of the airsoft parts are a tiny bit larger so some slight thinning of the walls will need to be slightly reshaped.
The airsoft upper stock band includes the bayonet lug where it normally protrudes from the real stock. I am hoping that an actual stock band will work for this project Right now the steel stock bolt is my biggest challenge. Cutting it will be tough.
I am taking pictures as I go. I had thought I would have to provide a means to fill the real steel magazine hollow but the airsoft design appears to be doing that on its own. I am only an hour into this and thus far feeling pretty good about it.
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 28, 2019 10:33:27 GMT -5
That stock reinforcing bolt is a pain. It's pretty hard steel, and a little awkward to get at.
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adrg
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Post by adrg on Apr 28, 2019 10:55:01 GMT -5
wasn't the original stock reinforcing bolt somehow screwed in? I mean it should have in one part 2 tiny holes that would help unscrew it. At least this I am recollecting from when I was working on the VZ24/G24 stock.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 28, 2019 13:48:40 GMT -5
I suspect with the right tool the main rod can be pulled but I cant seem to figure out how to do so. Please share how to do it if you figure it out as that would ease up this conversion effort considerably.
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 28, 2019 19:08:32 GMT -5
It takes a special tool with two little pins to unscrew the bolt. I think the intention was that once the bolt was installed it was never supposed to be taken out except by a depot. Good luck finding one, though you might be able to make one from a wide bladed screw driver.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 28, 2019 21:58:19 GMT -5
It might be worth the effort to attempt it. I took pictures of the two stocks side by side as well as the S & T rifle outside of the stock.
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 28, 2019 22:42:42 GMT -5
Just thinking. Maybe if you found two appropriate bits of sufficiently hard steel, like two hex keys, put an end of each in a hole, and then clamped them in a channel lock you could improvise a tool.
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adrg
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Post by adrg on Apr 29, 2019 14:33:52 GMT -5
I think mine wasn’t very strong fitted. I might have used a pair of pliers with very thin end and rotate. You can also use a little liquid to remove potential rust and help with unscrewing. Good luck!
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 29, 2019 16:27:32 GMT -5
It might be worth the effort to attempt it. I took pictures of the two stocks side by side as well as the S & T rifle outside of the stock.
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 29, 2019 21:57:30 GMT -5
Proof I'm getting old. I totally forgot this trick for dealing with this type nut or bolt. Try using a needle nose pliers with tips small enough to go in the holes. I tried it on my wood stock VSR-10 conversion (which is still for sale by the way) and the bolt turned easily.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 30, 2019 12:59:55 GMT -5
Wait so you dremel the wood inside the stock that surrounds the bolt then twist it out using the needle nose pliars. On this stock there is wood surrounding the bolt. I will attack this today.
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Post by volkssturm on Apr 30, 2019 13:32:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure Dremeling the wood is necessary. Try turning it before you take wood out. On mine I only removed enough wood to get at the upper side of the bolt so I could grind enough off for the VSR-10 to clear it.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on Apr 30, 2019 23:41:42 GMT -5
No joy trying to unscrew the stock bolt In addition there appears to be a square housing surrounding the pin.. Going to be miserable to cut out. Most of my inletting is done otherwise. I take back that there is less dremel work than a VSR conversion. There is actually at least twice as much and its fairly precise. I hollowed the area back at the rear of the receiver group a bit more than in needed to (not sure why? Once done i will fill the voids with wood filler. Unlike the real rifle the S & T has significant dept so the length of the bolt and receiver group (about 11 inches long has to be channeled down about and inch and a half. Wider and narrower in places. In addition while the lower inlets on the actual stock appear to align perfectly they need to be dremeled about 3/8th of an inch deeper than they are on the original stock. The upper handguard will also have to have a little bit of the neck area removed in order for the S &T stock band to fit. In addition I will use an actual upper stock band as the S & T includes a fixed cleaning rod and the bayonet lug which on the real steel is part of the stock. Once I get this darn stock bolt cut away and filled down the final dremel work,sanding and finish work as well as final assembly should go quickly. I think its going to look and feel awesome. The take off faux wood stock should lend itself brilliantly to a VSR conversion. I will do my typical 3 piece marriage. The forearm will extend to the front of the VSR center section. The butt stock will replace the VSR butt stock and the faux wood hand guard should fit well. The beauty of this approach is magazine, trigger alignment hop up and all the VSR functionality is un touched. With rods and dyna glass it provides weight and is rock solid. Marrying up the look for continuity and a convincing faux wood is always something I enjoy. Anyone see any deals on BAR 10 style VSRs?
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 2, 2019 0:09:34 GMT -5
So I took a tiny flat head screw driver, set it at an angle in one of the holes on the bolt head and tapped it. Miraculously it spun it and after several taps I could remove it. With the bolt removed I set into the dremel work in earnest. Yikes it requires a lot of of inlet work.
To get it to work you have to shave some sections down to paper thin.. This is not a conversion for the feint of heart. Today it was a progresive series of fine tuned fitting and shaving a little more, fitting and shaving a little more. I kept running into snags that prevented the two pieces from fully fitting. With each tweak it got closer and closer.
With darkness my wife ordered the dremel silenced. At present its about 1/4 inch too tall. I am clueless whats keeping it from fully sliding in. I did discover a few things. The rear area needs to be dremeled back about 1/4" for the rear screw to line up. Because I hadnt picked up on that some of my shaping was off. The lower trigger and magaine assembly fits perfectly into the actual stock but the recess has be made half again deeper so the bottom fits perfectly snug with the base of the stock. The upper area has to be opened up almost entirely and ultimately the upper assembly has to slide in and lay snug and perfectly flat with the lower assembly.
I am not quite there but I think tomorrow is the day. Lots and lots of sawdust! It is so helpful having the S & T plastic stock but naturally tranfering into my brain what needed to be done from plastic to wood is not as easy as I thought it would be.
I suspect tomorrow will require at least six assemblues and disassemblies before all is right. It's going to be fabulous but with the thin areas it will require some care in the field. I am planning to reinfore where possible with some fiberglass as with my Garand mods. The necks in those actual Garand conversions were shaved very thin but thus far have held up well.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 2, 2019 12:38:23 GMT -5
I always start out these projects thinking they are going to be easier than they turn out to be. Did some more work on it this morning and still cant quite get it flush. To keep my sanity I had to step away from it for a bit. Very very close but I cant see whats blocking a snug fit. Typically once I figure these out its blaringly obvious.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 2, 2019 19:05:11 GMT -5
I walked away when I just couldnt figure out what was preventing me from getting it flush. When I returned with fresh eyes I saw immediately what the challenge was. The S & T under the rear site was rounded on one side (like the original) but box shaped on the other side. I dremeled accordingly and it slid in perfectly. Once flush I discovered that the two stock holes were 1/4 inches forward of where they needed to be. I had to enlargen them accordingly and slightly redo some of my inlay. With that it reassembled and worked great. The heat shield needs some revisions and I need to cut the stock bolt ends and reattach them for visual effect. Also the S & T lower stock band is too small and because the actual stock includes the bayonet lug I used an actual upper stock band. The S & T upper stock band is a one piece that includes the bayonet lug, and cleaning rod. See all photos here: www.amazon.com/photos/shared/qwahI6MuRxOTu_myu1raFg.MHDxJM9XJ-wWv3wDl-3tju
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 2, 2019 19:29:14 GMT -5
As you can see in the pictures a great deal of the original stocks innards have to be gutted. Also note that the lower one piece assembly that includes the trigger guard and magazine shroud is thicker so that shape has to be deepened. I discovered later that it has to be shifted 1/4 inch forward as well in ordee for the two attaching screws to align. A few more tiny details and I will be done and Ill get finished pictures posted. This was a far bigger undertaking than I expected but the end results I believe will turn out nicely.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 3, 2019 22:00:48 GMT -5
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 4, 2019 11:34:46 GMT -5
Incidently the "square housing" I detected on the stock bolt was the bolt itself which is square. As it turned out removing it was quite easy. I just took a tiny screw driver like you use on glasses. Inserted it into one of the holes on the outside ring at an angle and repeatedly tapped it counterclockwide until I could unscrew it by hand. Huge time saving. You still have to cut both ends off if your going to use them on your stock but cutting is quite easy out of the gun stock. If you dont want to cut it you can use the plastic end pieces from the faux wood stock you replaced which I plan to use on a cheap VSR rifle.
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adrg
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Post by adrg on May 11, 2019 1:44:09 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing! That’s an awesome job as always! I see it is jot as easy as you would think initially. But the real wood stocks feels so nicely- that you can’t beat it with faux wood or even new wood ones.
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2nd Bat
Master sergeant
Posts: 11,813
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Post by 2nd Bat on May 11, 2019 17:45:58 GMT -5
The thinness of the stock sides is not problematic as near as I can tell. The flush fit with the S&T internals and the fact that its not in a stress area means you are not aware how thin it is once assembled. Cocking and firing it feels solid and free of tweaks or rattles. I love that this adaptation worked so well.
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